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Armslist genius... asking for a backdoor firearm sale in NJ

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wouldn't be too hard to call the guy and set up a meet, either he bites or he doesn't. They do it for people selling illegal items all day long, why not for those buying?

There are some legal reasons I can't discuss here why a prosecutor wouldn't jump on this.

 

Yeah, usually crooks don't purchase from by making cold calls to an online ad. Criminals purchase legally, steal weapons, or work through through bonafide shady channels. They seldom approach an unknown individual on the Internet and say, "Hey, here's my contact information. Let's do an illegal deal."

Agree with everything except purchase legally. Yes, legally purchased guns are sometimes used in crimes but but I would say over 99% of gun crimes are committed with guns obtained illicitly.

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Wow some of you guys are making me nauseous. Especially "I'd love to lock him up." So you'd love to violate his Second Amendment right? If NJ did away with the FID and P2P this guy would be within the boundary of the law. It's only some ink on a paper somewhere in Trenton that makes wrong what this guy wanted to do.

 

The 2nd Amendment doesn't end with "if you have a firearms purchaser ID card or Permit to Purchase." We the People have the right to keep and bear arms, period. Actually, 2A ends with "...shall not be infringed". New Jersey has made gun buying illegal with the exception of those with the proper paperwork. Sounds like infringement to me.

 

What typical New Jersey sheep; you can't report a violation fast enough. You are actually tripping over each other to get this guy in trouble, even after he dropped the subjec after his offer was declined. It's one thing to follow each absurd order from your master, it's another thing to collaborate with him. Do not forget what side of the line you civilians are on.

 

Maybe it's because I'm a southerner and we have a more revolutionary attitude, or because of my liberal interpretation of our rights, but I am shocked to see the pitchforks and torches come out so quickly and with such vigor. I guess I shouldn't be, not up here anyway. Each one of you eager Kapos is the reason your state is in such civil decline. Enjoy the society you've made for your children.

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Wow some of you guys are making me nauseous. Especially "I'd love to lock him up." So you'd love to violate his Second Amendment right? If NJ did away with the FID and P2P this guy would be within the boundary of the law. It's only some ink on a paper somewhere in Trenton that makes wrong what this guy wanted to do.

 

The 2nd Amendment doesn't end with "if you have a firearms purchaser ID card or Permit to Purchase." We the People have the right to keep and bear arms, period. Actually, 2A ends with "...shall not be infringed". New Jersey has made gun buying illegal with the exception of those with the proper paperwork. Sounds like infringement to me.

 

What typical New Jersey sheep; you can't report a violation fast enough. You are actually tripping over each other to get this guy in trouble, even after he dropped the subjec after his offer was declined. It's one thing to follow each absurd order from your master, it's another thing to collaborate with him. Do not forget what side of the line you civilians are on.

 

Maybe it's because I'm a southerner and we have a more revolutionary attitude, or because of my liberal interpretation of our rights, but I am shocked to see the pitchforks and torches come out so quickly and with such vigor. I guess I shouldn't be, not up here anyway. Each one of you eager Kapos is the reason your state is in such civil decline. Enjoy the society you've made for your children.

 

I agree 100% -  Just waiting on a few things to fall into place and then I am out of this nasty state

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Wow some of you guys are making me nauseous. Especially "I'd love to lock him up." So you'd love to violate his Second Amendment right? If NJ did away with the FID and P2P this guy would be within the boundary of the law. It's only some ink on a paper somewhere in Trenton that makes wrong what this guy wanted to do.

 

The 2nd Amendment doesn't end with "if you have a firearms purchaser ID card or Permit to Purchase." We the People have the right to keep and bear arms, period. Actually, 2A ends with "...shall not be infringed". New Jersey has made gun buying illegal with the exception of those with the proper paperwork. Sounds like infringement to me.

 

What typical New Jersey sheep; you can't report a violation fast enough. You are actually tripping over each other to get this guy in trouble, even after he dropped the subjec after his offer was declined. It's one thing to follow each absurd order from your master, it's another thing to collaborate with him. Do not forget what side of the line you civilians are on.

 

Maybe it's because I'm a southerner and we have a more revolutionary attitude, or because of my liberal interpretation of our rights, but I am shocked to see the pitchforks and torches come out so quickly and with such vigor. I guess I shouldn't be, not up here anyway. Each one of you eager Kapos is the reason your state is in such civil decline. Enjoy the society you've made for your children.

so you have no issue with anyone buying a gun from anyone? figure this guy could be normal could be a psychopath could be mentally inept could be a felon. But hey we're the problem!

Getting the proper paperwork may take time but is certainly not difficult. So I question why this guy can't use the legal channel? And this is the stuff that fuels new laws. People buying and selling guns illegally FTF.

I for one do not come from the idea that all people can exercise all rights. Rights come with the price of responsibility. If this guy is not prohibited nothing is infringing on his rights if he wants to responsibly exercise his rights. Sorry not a fan of people who cut corners and ruin it for everyone else.

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Wow some of you guys are making me nauseous. Especially "I'd love to lock him up." So you'd love to violate his Second Amendment right? If NJ did away with the FID and P2P this guy would be within the boundary of the law. It's only some ink on a paper somewhere in Trenton that makes wrong what this guy wanted to do.

 

The 2nd Amendment doesn't end with "if you have a firearms purchaser ID card or Permit to Purchase." We the People have the right to keep and bear arms, period. Actually, 2A ends with "...shall not be infringed". New Jersey has made gun buying illegal with the exception of those with the proper paperwork. Sounds like infringement to me.

 

What typical New Jersey sheep; you can't report a violation fast enough. You are actually tripping over each other to get this guy in trouble, even after he dropped the subjec after his offer was declined. It's one thing to follow each absurd order from your master, it's another thing to collaborate with him. Do not forget what side of the line you civilians are on.

 

Maybe it's because I'm a southerner and we have a more revolutionary attitude, or because of my liberal interpretation of our rights, but I am shocked to see the pitchforks and torches come out so quickly and with such vigor. I guess I shouldn't be, not up here anyway. Each one of you eager Kapos is the reason your state is in such civil decline. Enjoy the society you've made for your children.

ok genius. i'm looking for another 45 cal pistol. wanna sell me one without paperwork? i kinda doubt it. so if you think we're part of the problem, your lack of willingness to sell one without it makes you part of the problem too. none of us like the laws as they are, but we need to stay within them till we can change them.

 

 just sayin.

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Some guy was trying to buy a gun without wanting the government to know about it; which is legal to do in like 40-something states. He's obviously a criminal mastermind. :facepalm:

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ok genius. i'm looking for another 45 cal pistol. wanna sell me one without paperwork? i kinda doubt it. so if you think we're part of the problem, your lack of willingness to sell one without it makes you part of the problem too. none of us like the laws as they are, but we need to stay within them till we can change them.

 

 just sayin.

 

Or maybe not wish to take part in what NJ considers illegal activity is fine and a choice you have, personal freedom. That is okay. Wanting to and even going out of your way to make that person a criminal is part of the problem. 

 

I find it awfully ironic so many people complain about all these bogus laws yet are more than willing to have them enforced on people who even talk about not following them.

 

So what makes you think a law will change when you seemingly support it? How would that make sense?

 

Just saying.

 

:rolleyes:

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Or maybe not wish to take part in what NJ considers illegal activity is fine and a choice you have, personal freedom. That is okay. Wanting to and even going out of your way to make that person a criminal is part of the problem. 

 

I find it awfully ironic so many people complain about all these bogus laws yet are more than willing to have them enforced on people who even talk about not following them.

 

So what makes you think a law will change when you seemingly support it? How would that make sense?

 

Just saying.

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

So much this!!

 

 

The whole lynch mob mentality is pathetic and the reason gun laws will never get any better in this state.

 

 

 

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Supporting the enforcement of the law and calling someone out who is more then willing to break the law is not the same thing as supporting the law. You cannot make someone a criminal either, only their actions can do that. The law is dumb, but if you break it that makes you a criminal, that in turn means another criminal with a gun. Sorry I'm kinda sick of my rights being eroded away by criminals. Would you tell someone if u saw a drunk guy stumble out of a bar with his truck keys in hand? I

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You don't know anthing about rights. You are afraid of your PRIVILEGE being lost because of someone exercising their rights. Buying a handgun without the permit is a political crime only. It does not offend or molest anyone except the State, which seeks to control all the business we do and property we own.

 

I'm not saying sell the guy your pistol. I'm saying don't call the Four Horsemen down upon him for wanting to do what tens of millions of more free Americans are already able to do. Don't forget that the Firearms ID card and Permits to Purchase are abominations and that we should be working to dismantle their existence. Do remember those who are quick to imprison for a victimless crime, the crime of exercising your inalienable right, and that they are traitors to you and I.

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Supporting the enforcement of the law and calling someone out who is more then willing to break the law is not the same thing as supporting the law. You cannot make someone a criminal either, only their actions can do that. The law is dumb, but if you break it that makes you a criminal, that in turn means another criminal with a gun. Sorry I'm kinda sick of my rights being eroded away by criminals. Would you tell someone if u saw a drunk guy stumble out of a bar with his truck keys in hand? I

 

I support the enforcement of law, not unlawful legislation.

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No right is truly inalienable. If rights were inalienable then it would be acceptable practice that NO person can be prohibited from owning a firearm. If you really believe that every single person no exception can possess one, then i can follow your argument. However, i sit here and ask myself, why would anyone ever try to illegally transfer a weapon when they can do it legally... the obvious answer is they probably are not allowed. It's not a given, but the assumption could be made. Maybe you could forgive me for thinking i could do my part by trying to keep guns out of the hands of people who feel the need to fuel the anti's.

 

NJ's purchase laws are redundant to the point of retardation, however, every single person here was able to follow the law and exercise their rights.. the purchasing process doesn't infringe the right to own anything, maybe you could argue the cost, and it doesn't prohibit anyone that any other state wouldn't. The problem we have in NJ is simply the amount of time the process takes.

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Interesting.  I don't believe every person in this country should be able to own a gun.  There are too many psychopaths out there to think that EVERYONE has the god-given right to have a gun.

 

What if that person was some sick child abuser, drug dealer, crackhead, or just someone psycho with a restraining order who wanted to do some damage somewhere?  Granted this may be an extreme example, but do you really think that I or someone else here is truly a 'traitor' to our freedom because a huge red flag was drawn and some mild action was taken in hopes to prevent something potential horrendous from happening? 

 

The police aren't going to go hunt down some fool just because I called up and said so.  But at least it'll hopefully put up something on their radar in case they truly are a prohibited person.  Unfortunately in my case, a simple phone number wasn't even jotted down on a piece of paper. 

 

I can understand your point of view that FID's, P2P's, and the like are abominations, but in this day and age SOME limitations are necessary in my opinion.  I don't necessarily agree that we should be subject to such stringent political road blocks but I also think we need to have some common sense. 

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Interesting.  I don't believe every person in this country should be able to own a gun.  There are too many psychopaths out there to think that EVERYONE has the god-given right to have a gun.

 

What if that person was some sick child abuser, drug dealer, crackhead, or just someone psycho with a restraining order who wanted to do some damage somewhere?  Granted this may be an extreme example, but do you really think that I or someone else here is truly a 'traitor' to our freedom because a huge red flag was drawn and some mild action was taken in hopes to prevent something potential horrendous from happening? 

 

The police aren't going to go hunt down some fool just because I called up and said so.  But at least it'll hopefully put up something on their radar in case they truly are a prohibited person.  Unfortunately in my case, a simple phone number wasn't even jotted down on a piece of paper. 

 

I can understand your point of view that FID's, P2P's, and the like are abominations, but in this day and age SOME limitations are necessary in my opinion.  I don't necessarily agree that we should be subject to such stringent political road blocks but I also think we need to have some common sense. 

 

And this is why we loose the battle every time... 

 

One more "limitation" on the law abiding citizen WILL NOT make a difference, ESPECIALLY when the bad guys have zero limitations on the weapons they possess - 

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And this is why we loose the battle every time... 

 

One more "limitation" on the law abiding citizen WILL NOT make a difference, ESPECIALLY when the bad guys have zero limitations on the weapons they possess -

 

How is this individual a "law abiding person" when he is trying to circumvent the law?

 

The OP wisely told this guy no. Do you think he is the only person that this "armslist genius" approached? Do you think everyone is as lawfully minded as the OP?

 

If he could legally buy the gun, as in he is not a prohibited person, why do you think he approached the OP in this way? The two most likely answers in my mind are:

 

He is an anti trying to prove a point of either how easy it is to circumvent the gun laws in place, or how corrupt the gun owning public is and they have no intentions of following the laws we have. Both points being made in order to bolster his idea/argument that more gun laws are the answer.

 

Or

 

He is a prohibited person and is trying to get over.

 

On either of the above instances, the so called "armslist genius" should absolutely be reported to the authorities.

 

I have a hard time believing someone savvy enough to get online and locate a local gun seller could have no idea of what the current gun laws are in the state he lives in an that this is all a big mistake.

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Haha.  I'm sorry but I think you just took it way out of context.

 

You think we lose the battle every time because some of us believe that some limitations are necessary?  So you think that even background checks are pointless?

 

I'm not following your logic here.

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Wow some of you guys are making me nauseous. Especially "I'd love to lock him up." So you'd love to violate his Second Amendment right? If NJ did away with the FID and P2P this guy would be within the boundary of the law. It's only some ink on a paper somewhere in Trenton that makes wrong what this guy wanted to do.

The 2nd Amendment doesn't end with "if you have a firearms purchaser ID card or Permit to Purchase." We the People have the right to keep and bear arms, period. Actually, 2A ends with "...shall not be infringed". New Jersey has made gun buying illegal with the exception of those with the proper paperwork. Sounds like infringement to me.

What typical New Jersey sheep; you can't report a violation fast enough. You are actually tripping over each other to get this guy in trouble, even after he dropped the subjec after his offer was declined. It's one thing to follow each absurd order from your master, it's another thing to collaborate with him. Do not forget what side of the line you civilians are on.

Maybe it's because I'm a southerner and we have a more revolutionary attitude, or because of my liberal interpretation of our rights, but I am shocked to see the pitchforks and torches come out so quickly and with such vigor. I guess I shouldn't be, not up here anyway. Each one of you eager Kapos is the reason your state is in such civil decline. Enjoy the society you've made for your children.

Someone who gets it.

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Background checks are pointless. Even if there were a NICS check for every purchase there will always be a black market. It's like outlawing abortions; they will never stop they will only move.

 

Being a murderer, a rapist or a sociopath doesn't make you ineligible to buy a gun. Being convicted of a felony, subject to a restraining order or being adjudicated mentally defective prohibits you from passing a NICS check. is someone adjudicated mentally defective the moment they decide to do something like commit mass murder? No.

 

If we accept that the NICS check at the dealer is a good idea in the name of public safety, then logic dictates that the NICS check should be universal. Then people will want X Y and Z on the NICS check. Do you have speeding tickets? Dangerously irresponsible, deny purchase. Bad credit score? Unstable personality, deny purchase. Sought mental health assistance? Delay purchase until a State provider makes an assesment. Then the NICS can be taxed, suspended and delayed at will. Limits can be made on how many checks can be preformed per person per year, or month, or at all.

 

If you don't think that's where you are taking us, take a look around. Look at the bills already being written and passed through the states' legislature. Look at the situation of gun ownership in other countries.

 

Maybe the guy who approached the OP is a prohibited person and he knows it. Must we assume what for? Was his felony violent or victimless? Is he in a contested divorce, where restraining orders are the norm not the exception? Is he ineligible under the Lautenburg Amendment because his wife or girlfriend SAID he hit her? My point is just because you are a prohibited person doesn't mean you should be.

 

It is good that your Police Department didn't take your inquiry seriously enough to waste money investigating this person.

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So are you saying everyone should just break the gun laws and then eventually the state will say F it and do away with them?

 

When did I tell anyone to break the law?

 

I was referring to the fact that everyone is throwing in their 2 pennies, saying that the guy should be reported to the police for trying to buy a gun incorrectly. The "lynch mob mentality" refers to people wanting to judge some random guy on Armslist, without knowing any real facts.

 

What if the guy just moved to NJ from an American state?

What if the guy just became a gun owner and was unaware that a P2P was needed for every single pistol purchase?

What if the guy thought that buying a pistol F2F was a ("gunshow loophole") and didn't require additional paperwork nor an FFL, much like a long gun?

 

This guy either knowingly or unknowingly tried to purchase a pistol without jumping through the hoops. Yet, everyone wants to treat him the same way "the antis" treat all of us.

----------------------------------------

 

Why is it that the Second Amendment is taken away from former felons but no other Constitutional Rights are taken away?

Gun control isn't going to stop crime....because criminals will buy/use illegal guns anyway, right? So then what is the purpose of denying them a Constitutional Right?

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When did I tell anyone to break the law? You're saying the whole lynch mob mentality is the reason laws will never get better. Would complete utter silence make them better.

 

I was referring to the fact that everyone is throwing in their 2 pennies, saying that the guy should be reported to the police for trying to buy a gun incorrectly. The "lynch mob mentality" refers to people wanting to judge some random guy on Armslist, without knowing any real facts.

 

What if the guy just moved to NJ from an American state? Not an excuse, We are responsible to know other states laws regardless of how stupid or insane they are. I can't conceal carry in PA without a permit. If I did without it and got stopped what would my excuse be, oh sorry officer, I'm from NJ where we can't but since I was in PA I thought I was in an "American State" Side note: I agree that this is a Nazi State, No argument there

What if the guy just became a gun owner and was unaware that a P2P was needed for every single pistol purchase? The first post from OP said he wanted to bypass the paperwork.

What if the guy thought that buying a pistol F2F was a ("gunshow loophole") and didn't require additional paperwork nor an FFL, much like a long gun? Refer to above

 

This guy either knowingly or unknowingly tried to purchase a pistol without jumping through the hoops. Yet, everyone wants to treat him the same way "the antis" treat all of us.

----------------------------------------

 

Why is it that the Second Amendment is taken away from former felons but no other Constitutional Rights are taken away? Convicted felons can't vote.

Gun control isn't going to stop crime....because criminals will buy/use illegal guns anyway, right? So then what is the purpose of denying them a Constitutional Right? This brings me back to my original point, Should everyone just ignore the law?

The first post from OP said he wanted to bypass the paperwork.

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Background checks are pointless. Even if there were a NICS check for every purchase there will always be a black market. It's like outlawing abortions; they will never stop they will only move.

 

Being a murderer, a rapist or a sociopath doesn't make you ineligible to buy a gun. Being convicted of a felony, subject to a restraining order or being adjudicated mentally defective prohibits you from passing a NICS check. is someone adjudicated mentally defective the moment they decide to do something like commit mass murder? No.

 

If we accept that the NICS check at the dealer is a good idea in the name of public safety, then logic dictates that the NICS check should be universal. Then people will want X Y and Z on the NICS check. Do you have speeding tickets? Dangerously irresponsible, deny purchase. Bad credit score? Unstable personality, deny purchase. Sought mental health assistance? Delay purchase until a State provider makes an assesment. Then the NICS can be taxed, suspended and delayed at will. Limits can be made on how many checks can be preformed per person per year, or month, or at all.

 

If you don't think that's where you are taking us, take a look around. Look at the bills already being written and passed through the states' legislature. Look at the situation of gun ownership in other countries.

 

Maybe the guy who approached the OP is a prohibited person and he knows it. Must we assume what for? Was his felony violent or victimless? Is he in a contested divorce, where restraining orders are the norm not the exception? Is he ineligible under the Lautenburg Amendment because his wife or girlfriend SAID he hit her? My point is just because you are a prohibited person doesn't mean you should be.

 

It is good that your Police Department didn't take your inquiry seriously enough to waste money investigating this person.

 

Your solution is to abolish all checkpoints because there are still some 'bad but unconvicted or not yet mentally evaluated' people that can get past NICS or because of where NICS is supposedly heading?  You think removing the inefficient filter is better than having no filter at all?

 

If it's really that pointless, then what would stop a convicted criminal at that point from buying a gun at a store if he didn't have to go thru a background check?

 

What are you trying to propose then?  It seems you're giving the benefit of the doubt to every soul out there trying to get there hands on a gun and not presenting a single solution to a seemingly growing problem. 

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The solutions aren't relevant to the gun rights debate, but if we're talking about the NICS check in relation to trying to reduce crime then I will go into it... If someone is such a danger that they cannot be trusted in society then they should not be in society. I could probably write a long book about how our catch-and-release policy with repeat offenders, our idiotic rehabilitation efforts with sexual predators, the failed strategy of the "war on drugs", the problem of unchecked illegal and legal immigration, the degradation of the family unit at home, parents placing the responsibity of raising children upon teachers, YouTube, porn and video games, the economic slump and the American culture war pre-Columbus to present all contribute to the violent state of our nation, but that would take a long time and no one wants to go through all that.

 

Suffice to say that neither NICS, the redundant P2P procedure nor any other conceivable background check is the answer to preventing, intervening in, or recovering from gun crime. The answer to that is behind the trigger.

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The first post from OP said he wanted to bypass the paperwork.

 

Not an excuse, We are responsible to know other states laws regardless of how stupid or insane they are. I can't conceal carry in PA without a permit. If I did without it and got stopped what would my excuse be, oh sorry officer, I'm from NJ where we can't but since I was in PA I thought I was in an "American State" Side note: I agree that this is a Nazi State, No argument there

 

Convicted felons can't vote.

 

Without reading the correspondence between the op and this guy from Armslist, no one knows exactly what was said between them. Maybe there was a misunderstanding? Nah....lets just assume the worst in people and their intentions.

 

You are inferring things that I am not saying, once again I never told or advised anyone to break the law, yet you accuse me of doing so.

 

Armslist guy asked op to sell him a handgun without paperwork(allegedly). Once the op said no the conversation between them seemingly ended. (Unless I missed something because after two pages of "call the cops" "report him" it all started blending together.) Someone asked you to do something you weren't comfortable with; case closed.

 

Felons can't vote: partially correct but mostly wrong. There are only 12 states where you could possibly lose your right to vote for life. But many of those states reinstate your right to vote after time served, probation, parole, and x number of years since you committed said crime.

 

 

ETA: It seems that you are mistakenly assuming that I am making excuses for Armslist guy when I am not; I am trying to make the point that there is no reason to judge a situation where you don't have all the facts. What if this guy was asking a question to the seller of the handgun and instead of searching this forum or the SP website, he was new to NJ and emailed the seller and asked if he needed paperwork to purchase.

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