how often to swab traditional muzzy?

[wooly bugger 1]

I'm used to shooting a T/C Omega with a tight bore, and in between sabots, I have to do a lot of cleaning or it won't fit.

For my Hawken percussion and lead bullets and real BP, I notice the fit is less tight, so I could get away without swabbing between shots. Is this a bad idea?

What is the optimal procedure for shooting these traditional rifles?

 

[WVisHome 0]

The more often you swab your muzzie the easier it is dealing with a tight bore.  

[AverageJoe 95]

The more often you swab your muzzie the easier it is dealing with a tight bore.  

Thats what she...ahh hell never mind.

[MosinRob 1]

Every rifle is different and everyone will tell you their version of the right way. For me, I swab every shot. Some guys I shoot with swab every few, some saw when they cant get anything down it. One guy I shoot with doesn't swab, he uses a bore brush with a quick once up once down. Now for my method. When you cant get a projectile down the bore you admitting the bore has changed in diameter. People will tell you they shoot better fouled. This is true to a extent. Now when you wait until it's real hard to push down the bore is tighter, then you swab a few and it loosens back up. What this does it makes for inconsistent groups in my logic and from what I have learned. Now by doing it my way and swabbing every shot, you are keeping the fouling soft and keeping everything the same for every shot. Consistency is accuracy. So when I go to a Black powder match, First thing I do is fire a cap to make sure she is clear from nipple to breach. Put the barrel right up to a leaf or grass and make sure it moves when the cap goes off. Next I take between 40-60gr on powder down the barrel with no bullet. I shoot that powder off. Now I swab it once and the bore is in the exact same condition as every other time I shot. Now like I said others will say not to and have other methods, you have to see what you like as well.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I use a traditional side-lock percussion with either 370 grain .50 caliber T/C Maxi-Balls or Hornady .490 patched round balls with a .018 pillow-ticking patch.  I do the same thing Rob does as far as capping-off, then I load a round and pump it into the berm instead of firing a blank.  Both will do the same thing, and that is to partially foul the bore.

 

From there I usually shoot 5-6 more times then do a spit-patch, followed by at least a cap or two to clear my flash channel.  Then back to reloading and firing another handful of shots.  This all depends on temperature, humidity and softness of the fouling.  When in doubt, I spit-patch more often.  There is a "magic" amount of fouling that lends itself to extremely tight and accurate groups.  More fouling beyond this "sweet spot" will bring wider groups, so once you find your "sweet-spot" fouling condition wise, you try to maintain it.  The easiest way to maintain it is to swab prior to every shot just like Rob does.  Since I'm older and lazier, and already earned my DX, I choose to not do it that way and instead opt to wait for a wide shot that felt "good" at ignition.  This tells me when to spit-patch the next time.

 

Muzzleloading isn't really about shooting, it's about interpreting the effects of a scientific experiment every time you cheerfully receive an ignition from the Gods of the Old Ways...

[Hare Trigger 0]

Are you using pellets, BP substitute or BP? Also are you using a standard 209 shotgun primer or a 209 designed for muzzleloaders? I have read that a crust builds up from the burning of the substitute & pellets which makes it very difficult to push a second saboted bullet down the tube if you don't swab in between shots. I haven't needed to do this when using BP in my side hammer when hunting. I have the same problem with my Encore, the only time it sucks to swab is when I'm hunting and need to reload after a shot. Fortunately I haven't needed to take the second shot! They do make sabots that are made of a slicker material that aids in reloading, but my personal experience with them is they are not as accurate.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Are you using pellets, BP substitute or BP? Also are you using a standard 209 shotgun primer or a 209 designed for muzzleloaders? I have read that a crust builds up from the burning of the substitute & pellets which makes it very difficult to push a second saboted bullet down the tube if you don't swab in between shots. I haven't needed to do this when using BP in my side hammer when hunting. I have the same problem with my Encore, the only time it sucks to swab is when I'm hunting and need to reload after a shot. Fortunately I haven't needed to take the second shot! They do make sabots that are made of a slicker material that aids in reloading, but my personal experience with them is they are not as accurate.

 

To whom are you directing your question?

[MosinRob 1]

Are you using pellets, BP substitute or BP? Also are you using a standard 209 shotgun primer or a 209 designed for muzzleloaders? I have read that a crust builds up from the burning of the substitute & pellets which makes it very difficult to push a second saboted bullet down the tube if you don't swab in between shots. I haven't needed to do this when using BP in my side hammer when hunting. I have the same problem with my Encore, the only time it sucks to swab is when I'm hunting and need to reload after a shot. Fortunately I haven't needed to take the second shot! They do make sabots that are made of a slicker material that aids in reloading, but my personal experience with them is they are not as accurate.

 Crud ring in my experience with a variety of bp subs in loose or pellet is from a lack of proper cleaning. People think cause subs aren't corrosive that cleaning until it shines isn't necessary. Also some crud rings are a ring of not only burnt fouling but also hard caked burnt plastic. I use mc #7. Works great for a inline with plastic sabots. I would recommend Blackhorn 209 if you have a 209 ignition in your muzzleloader. very very clean, consistent, and produces a lot of energy with less powder. For a sidelock, just can't beat good ol goex. If you want a absolute killer combo then get some cci 209 magnums, blackhorn 209, and hornady fpb 300gr. No plastic skirt. like a all copper minnie. Great for hunting. expensive for target.

[Hare Trigger 0]

I was directing my question to Wooly Bugger.

 

I'm using 777 Pellets and TC Shock Waves in my Encore, and the crud ring after each shot makes it difficult to load a second shot especially when hunting! At the range isn't the problem since I always swab after each shot. The reason I asked the question was due to the difficulties I experience. BP has never given me trouble in my side hammer since I don't use sabots in that rifle.

[MosinRob 1]

I find it very very odd you get a crud ring after one shot, especially making it hard to load after one shot. That's a first for me. Wish I could help you with that one

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Crud rings form from having powder residue turn to cement.  I've seen this with Pyrodex, so it was bound to happen with 777.  Usually (but not always) the result of incomplete cleaning.  I think that either the rifle isn't sparkling clean to begin with OR that the 777 pellets are too hot for the type sabot he's using.  Could also be that the rifling is already packed with invisible melted plastic sabot before the first load goes down the throat.  This would cause both loading and crud ring problems.  So even if it comes clean with patches and BP solvent, the plastic is left behind.  My advice would be to pull the breech plug and get shotgun wad cleaner (like Shooter's Choice) and soak the bore in it, then scrub with a .50 caliber brush (or maybe even a .54 to get more pressure on the bristles) to remove left-over plastic sabot material.

 

If you do what I suggest and you still have a problem, I too am at a loss.

 

Dave

[wooly bugger 1]

Are you using pellets, BP substitute or BP? Also are you using a standard 209 shotgun primer or a 209 designed for muzzleloaders? I have read that a crust builds up from the burning of the substitute & pellets which makes it very difficult to push a second saboted bullet down the tube if you don't swab in between shots. I haven't needed to do this when using BP in my side hammer when hunting. I have the same problem with my Encore, the only time it sucks to swab is when I'm hunting and need to reload after a shot. Fortunately I haven't needed to take the second shot! They do make sabots that are made of a slicker material that aids in reloading, but my personal experience with them is they are not as accurate.

For my inline, I use 777 powder and standard 209 caps. I also use crush rib sabots, which work great. I don't mind swabbing multiple times between shots, because I don't do much target shooting with it.

 

For my side lock (which is what I'm trying to figure out,) I use real BP, #11 caps, and Hornady lubricated conical bullets.

 

From what I'm hearing so far, next time I'm at the range, I'd do a fouling shot with just powder, then spit patch between each shot. I'll also try dry patching between shot. I'll let you all know how it works.

 

Now I really want to try PRB, but not quite ready to buy a dedicated rifle with 1:60 rifling yet.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Some rifles don't like to be dry-patched, especially if using a Jag to do it.  And especially in a fouled bore, so be careful!  I have to use a patch worm on my Lyman Trade Rifle to use a dry patch.  This is why when going to a Range, I bring along TWO Range Rods--and the worm stays on one the entire time--it's just easier that way!

 

You'd be surprised how accurate a '48-twist rifle really IS!  I've cut several playing cards in half with both a .490 patched round ball as well as a 370 gr. T/C Maxi-Ball on the journey to earning my NRA Distinguished Expert in ML Rifle.  With the off-the-shelf .50 cal. Lyman Trade Rifle I've won Rifle Shooter of the Year at BOTH Black Powder Clubs I regularly shoot at.  So a '60 or '66 twist isn't needed!  Just sayin'....

 

If you ever want to shoot with us, just come on down to Old Bridge!  OR--take a short trip to Vernon!

 

Dave

[Greydaddy 2]

Thats what she...ahh hell never mind.

"said", eh, never mind!