Feedback/Opinions on the NJ Second Amendment Society

[eshepp007 3]

Fellow 2Aers,

 

Trying to get some feedback on the New Jersey Second Amendment Society. I know they're relatively new, so I was only able to glean a little bit from their back story.

 

I ask because they just held a recruiting event in my neck of the woods, Cape May County. The fact they are expanding tells me something good about them. I did not go to the event, however, due to their choice in speaker for said event, which tells me something bad about them. When I emailed them and explained why I chose not to go, the President responded to the email, which tells me something good about them. I was less than satisfied with both the content and the tone of the email, however, which tells me something bad about them.

 

While I have yet to fully pass judgement, right now I'm leaning toward staying away from them.

 

Has anyone on the forum have any experience/contact with them, good or bad, which would give me more information on them? I'm a rational guy, like to get as many facts as possible before making a decision.

 

Thanks!

[lunker 274]

I think you will find that many NJGF members are also NJ2AS members, and vice versa. The group does have a libertarian/conservative feel, but that is more reflective of the membership than the group's charter purpose, IMO.

 

If you are worried that they invited Democratic Assemblymen rather than Republicans, you should look more deeply into their strategy. There are a few pro-gun Democrats in this state, mostly from the more rural areas. If the NJ2AS aligns itself only with Republicans (many of whom, especially in North Jersey, are very anti-gun) then the group becomes a partisan wing of the Republican party and much easier to dismiss. The reason the NRA has so much success in national legislature is that they have politicians from both sides of the aisle in their court. If it ever gets to the point where only Republicans sup[port the NRA, you will see the group's effectiveness diminish greatly.

[mcbethr 42]

I can tell you this.  If it weren't for NJ2AS, you would have been shooting with a 10 round magazine two years ago when Lou Greenwald first proposed it.

 

NJ2AS is a fantastic organization and Frank has put so much time and effort into this project that he should be commended for his work.

 

I don't agree with all of the political / libertarian sentiments of the group.  I'm pretty much a die-hard Democrat.  But they are a single-issue organization.  They'll support anyone, Republican, Democrat, or Libertarian who is willing to protect our gun rights.

[millsan1 3]

NJ2AS is our voice in NJ.  I have my problems with the organization and their ADHD approach to issues and their "super secret presidents club" mentality, but they did pull together the rallies etc.

 

I am and will continue to be a member.  I rock large stickers on my motorcycle.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I'm a proud member

[raz-0 1,259]

I've tried to be involved in many attempts at RKBA in the past in NJ. 

 

NJ2AS is the best run, least dysfunctional so far IMO.

 

Without you being more specific about what rubs you the wrong way about them, all we can do is guess about the issues you worry about. 

 

I'll take a guess.

 

1) Too republican. This is pretty much going to be a basic spectrum thing. RKBA is seen as very right in this state where quite a few of our republican politicians would have a hard time making the cut for a slot on a democratic ticket for being a bit too left in other states. I may have come to the NJ2AS a bit later than many, but I have yet to see them blindly endorse one party or another. The closest to that is the vote them all out sentiment I've seen thrown about. That happens to be a statement that implies tossing a lot of dems out on their kiesters, but that's because the democrat machine has a stranglehold on the state. Like most things RKBA, they are going to skew republican in an uphill battle where the hill is composed of predominantly democrat antis. I'm pretty confident any perception of this is driven from the environment rather than the organization. 

 

2) Too tea party. Look, you want to start talking constitutional issues, what other group do you have in NJ that you can gain some momentum from? As a semi formal group, have they been represented more in mailing announcements than other groups? Perhaps, but I would largely say that is only the case if you regard any attempt to roll out the membership that doesn't brace you for outright confrontation as being an invitation to go there and nod and agree with each other. 

 

3) Too Jesusy. They seem to promote lots of talks with groups that are very religious. For some people guns and god go together, for others, not so much. you don't like them, don't go. Can you really expect them to ignore religious conservatives as a demographic for RKBA? There's significant cross over on the issue, and even if you are just going to the enemy of my enemy is my friend, you can't really escape it. I will say that in public they make an effort to keep in mind that appealing to god given rights is potentially divisive, and try to keep to the natural rights approach.  That being said, I can understand treading the fine line. It's a voting block you can't afford to leave on the table when they are pretty primed to be driven to the polls in this state already. Especially if you want to get the racial makeup of the issue to be broader. You want to pick up black and latino individuals that will get up there and speak and come with some demographic credentials that politicians will listen to (i.e. an audience made up of the right kind of people), you aren't going to likely have to go conservative and religious. That being said, the religiously affiliated folk (i.e. priest and paster types) who have been rolled out to speak have not spoken for my beliefs as a blanket statement simply because I have guns. The rank and file is a different matter.

 

I have no use for religion. From what I have seen of the NJ2AS presence in public, I can say that from the leadership end of things, while I do get the vibe that they hold significant religious beliefs, they try to keep it non-denominational and try to keep in mind that atheists and the non-religious are worth a vote just as much as anyone else. If you are atheist type who takes insult in anyone believing in a god or being religious, then yes, you will probably be insulted. You will definitely find rank and file who clearly believe in a god, a specific one at that, and walk around assuming everyone agrees with them, so it is pretty much like anyplace else. 

 

Your choices are ANJRPC, NJ2AS, and New Jersey State Federation of Sportsmen's Clubs.  The Second Amendment Foundation, on the national level, does not see us as invisible, but to date they are no more obviously active than ANJRPC as far as I can tell, and quite probably significantly less active if you take court cases out of the activism mix. On a local level, they are the only group that seems ot be making a serious attempt to convince people that gun owners are also voters and law abiding individuals with rights that might also sue you over bad legislation, and they are more effective and less broken than groups that have tried to do that in the past. 

[eshepp007 3]

Thanks for all the feedback so far.

 

Lunker, my issue with the selected speaker was not the political party. I am a realist, I know an organization like this needs to work with both sides of the aisle. Not my issue at all.

 

My issue was that this particular Democrat had written some bad legislation regarding CC permits, says our current guns laws are fine as is and endorsed Barbara Buono for governor, who is making gun control one of her big campaign issues. Like I said, I'm a rational guy, make my decisions after getting info.

 

Now, if this event was a legislative update, or anything but a recruiting event, I'd be ok with it. But it was a recruiting event, which means it was designed to bring in and attract people by showing people what the NJ2AS is and stands for, or should have been designed that way. And if that is the sort of speaker they bring in for that, what am I supposed to think? 

[Smokin .50 1,907]

^^^^^THIS^^^^^(Raz-0's Post)

 

And to the OP:

 

Congratulations on getting involved in this issue.  Welcome to the forum.  Some (read most) of us here froze our a$$es off back in February in an icy rainy drizzly OUTDOOR protest in Trenton which was mostly organized by NJ2AS.  Then we all did it all over AGAIN!  Received media coverage both times.  They are THE group in NJ to get involved with if the 2A means anything to you.  NJ2AS is already two years old, and GROWING across all racial and socio-economic demographics.  You're a little late to the start of the "Party", but welcome none-the-less.  It's a shame you didn't go to the meeting to see for yourself the 5-W's since it was held in your back yard.  FWIW Who a group invites to a meeting should never be the only factor in deciding to join.  Our friends can preach to the Choir, our true enemies will be a No-Show, and those with an open mind may decide to hear what we the People have to say in regards to the 2A and who knows, maybe become enlightened enough to give us some friendly votes for common sense in this crazy, disgusting situation we find ourselves in.

 

One thing is for sure:  we've been carrying YOUR weight, and will gladly continue to do so.  If, however, you decide to join the fight for freedom, please do so of your own free will.  Lots of good folks in Cape May County.  Maybe you're one of them?  Prove it by becoming a member of the most significant movement in the RKBA in NJ.

 

Dave

Patriot

Member NJ2AS

Frozen Protester  

[buell508 6]

member

[ryan_j 0]

I can tell you this.  If it weren't for NJ2AS, you would have been shooting with a 10 round magazine two years ago when Lou Greenwald first proposed it.\

 

10 rounds? You're optimistic. I could easily see 5 rounds passing. Cryan proposed a bill.

[ryan_j 0]

If you can, join NJ2AS, NRA and ANJRPC. You don't need the range membership for ANJRPC unless you plan to go.

 

I will be honest. I support them all but NJ2AS seems to be the most effective. However NJ2AS is working together with ANJRPC who is the state NRA association. So it's not really a choice I would like to make, so I support them all.

 

About the "jesus-y" part that raz-0 mentioned, the anti groups also schmooze up to them to. Ever heard of "heeding god's call?" They are an anti group that testifies at the hearings. I am a Catholic. In fact, I am active in my church as a lector and I read at mass. I don't shove religion down anyone's throat. My respect for 2A has nothing to do with my faith. I don't really discuss faith with NJ2AS. But I do discuss values. The family unit and respect for the rule of law for one. But you'll find that with any 2A group.

[ryan_j 0]

And NJ2AS has had two big wins. I'm sure there are more to come:

 

Operation Establish Compliance - several towns have changed their FID/PtP process as a result of NJ2AS action

Fix the NICS - NJ2AS put the pressure on for the faxed in NICS checks that were piling up for weeks. NICS is back to normal.

 

Also, Jeff Van Drew has said at a NJ2AS meeting that legislators are basically treading lightly because of us. Really, we shake things up.

[usnmars 136]

I am not a member of 2AS because of the same reason several others are.  They tend to focus on CCW too much.  Even with all the anti-gun proposals that were coming down the pipe there was still a push for CCW reform.  I honestly can care less about CCW and I know I am not the only one.  When it is brought up members say "oooh there is other things in the works but we cant talk about it....." I do not want to have the need for a secret decoder ring and secret handshake to get information. 

[maintenanceguy 510]

If you think we should negotiate and meet the anti 2A people in the middle, support the NRA.

If you think we should have input on how new anti gun laws will be written, join the ANJRPC

If you believe that it's time to fight like our rights depend on it, join NJ2AS

[alowerlevel 77]

I am not a member of 2AS because of the same reason several others are.  They tend to focus on CCW too much.  Even with all the anti-gun proposals that were coming down the pipe there was still a push for CCW reform.  I honestly can care less about CCW and I know I am not the only one.  When it is brought up members say "oooh there is other things in the works but we cant talk about it....." I do not want to have the need for a secret decoder ring and secret handshake to get information. 

 

I agree, this is partly why I am not a member either.  While I would like to one day see us get CCW here in NJ, there are far more important things going on in this state right now that they shout be focusing thier efforts on.  Although I will give them credit that Ive seen them accomplish more in this state in the short period of time they've been around than I can remember the NRA ever doing for us in NJ.

[ryan_j 0]

I am not a member of 2AS because of the same reason several others are.  They tend to focus on CCW too much.  Even with all the anti-gun proposals that were coming down the pipe there was still a push for CCW reform.  I honestly can care less about CCW and I know I am not the only one.  When it is brought up members say "oooh there is other things in the works but we cant talk about it....." I do not want to have the need for a secret decoder ring and secret handshake to get information. 

 

 

Might have been in the past but the focus these days is squarely the gun bills in Trenton. 

 

Can I ask a question though, why aren't you interested in the right to carry? 

[ryan_j 0]

I agree, this is partly why I am not a member either.  While I would like to one day see us get CCW here in NJ, there are far more important things going on in this state right now that they shout be focusing thier efforts on.  Although I will give them credit that Ive seen them accomplish more in this state in the short period of time they've been around than I can remember the NRA ever doing for us in NJ.

 

They are focusing on "far more important things." NJ2AS has been majorly fighting against the new gun bills in the NJ legislature. In fact I have hardly heard any talk about CCW.

 

I'm curious though, as to what your idea of "far more important things" are. Because the NJ2AS has dedicated nearly all of its efforts these days against the legislature's efforts to ram more gun control down our throats. 

[ryan_j 0]

If you think we should negotiate and meet the anti 2A people in the middle, support the NRA.

If you think we should have input on how new anti gun laws will be written, join the ANJRPC

If you believe that it's time to fight like our rights depend on it, join NJ2AS

 

I joined all three and others. Here is why.

NRA has name recognition. The NRA is the bogeyman among antis. I love that, which is why I support them. Yes, they may be willing to compromise but we as members can put the brakes on some of it. In the end we need the NRA. They support a lot of programs including youth, safety and responsible firearms use. 

 

I initially joined ANJRPC for Cherry Ridge. But I support them fully in the activism and other efforts. I believe the ANJRPC is important because they work with other organizations and they have the numbers. They can recruit people such as recreational shooters and hunters. They are tied to the NRA, so they go hand in hand.

 

NJ2AS is the firecracker. Loud and proud. Not afraid to crack a few eggs. Not afraid to defy and disobey and not afraid to stand up and fight. I love what they do. They are amazing. More importantly they are effective. Goes without saying that I am behind them 100%. 

 

SAF is another good organization to support. They are focused on the courts and they are winning important cases. I believe this is important because apparently the only way to restore the 2A is through the courts.

 

GOA is like a bull. Charging and raging. I would strongly recommend joining them too. They are effective as well and not afraid to put the NRA in its place and light a fire under them. Larry Pratt has confronted hoplophobe bullies like Piers Morgan head on. 

[raz-0 1,259]

My take is you need to be supporitng a national group, a local group, and a judicial group. 

 

I'm a member of the NRA, GOA, SAF, and NJ2AS. I'm no longer giving money to ANJRPC, I have watched them for years fail to do much of anything noticeable. They will have to convince me otherwise.  I don't contribute to the coalition of NJ sportsmen because it has become clear that they have relegated themselves to a specific niche that does not cover my interests and I'd rather spend my money elsewhere. 

[RUTGERS95 890]

I've tried to be involved in many attempts at RKBA in the past in NJ. 

 

NJ2AS is the best run, least dysfunctional so far IMO.

 

Without you being more specific about what rubs you the wrong way about them, all we can do is guess about the issues you worry about. 

 

I'll take a guess.

 

1) Too republican. This is pretty much going to be a basic spectrum thing. RKBA is seen as very right in this state where quite a few of our republican politicians would have a hard time making the cut for a slot on a democratic ticket for being a bit too left in other states. I may have come to the NJ2AS a bit later than many, but I have yet to see them blindly endorse one party or another. The closest to that is the vote them all out sentiment I've seen thrown about. That happens to be a statement that implies tossing a lot of dems out on their kiesters, but that's because the democrat machine has a stranglehold on the state. Like most things RKBA, they are going to skew republican in an uphill battle where the hill is composed of predominantly democrat antis. I'm pretty confident any perception of this is driven from the environment rather than the organization. 

 

2) Too tea party. Look, you want to start talking constitutional issues, what other group do you have in NJ that you can gain some momentum from? As a semi formal group, have they been represented more in mailing announcements than other groups? Perhaps, but I would largely say that is only the case if you regard any attempt to roll out the membership that doesn't brace you for outright confrontation as being an invitation to go there and nod and agree with each other. 

 

3) Too Jesusy. They seem to promote lots of talks with groups that are very religious. For some people guns and god go together, for others, not so much. you don't like them, don't go. Can you really expect them to ignore religious conservatives as a demographic for RKBA? There's significant cross over on the issue, and even if you are just going to the enemy of my enemy is my friend, you can't really escape it. I will say that in public they make an effort to keep in mind that appealing to god given rights is potentially divisive, and try to keep to the natural rights approach.  That being said, I can understand treading the fine line. It's a voting block you can't afford to leave on the table when they are pretty primed to be driven to the polls in this state already. Especially if you want to get the racial makeup of the issue to be broader. You want to pick up black and latino individuals that will get up there and speak and come with some demographic credentials that politicians will listen to (i.e. an audience made up of the right kind of people), you aren't going to likely have to go conservative and religious. That being said, the religiously affiliated folk (i.e. priest and paster types) who have been rolled out to speak have not spoken for my beliefs as a blanket statement simply because I have guns. The rank and file is a different matter.

 

I have no use for religion. From what I have seen of the NJ2AS presence in public, I can say that from the leadership end of things, while I do get the vibe that they hold significant religious beliefs, they try to keep it non-denominational and try to keep in mind that atheists and the non-religious are worth a vote just as much as anyone else. If you are atheist type who takes insult in anyone believing in a god or being religious, then yes, you will probably be insulted. You will definitely find rank and file who clearly believe in a god, a specific one at that, and walk around assuming everyone agrees with them, so it is pretty much like anyplace else. 

 

Your choices are ANJRPC, NJ2AS, and New Jersey State Federation of Sportsmen's Clubs.  The Second Amendment Foundation, on the national level, does not see us as invisible, but to date they are no more obviously active than ANJRPC as far as I can tell, and quite probably significantly less active if you take court cases out of the activism mix. On a local level, they are the only group that seems ot be making a serious attempt to convince people that gun owners are also voters and law abiding individuals with rights that might also sue you over bad legislation, and they are more effective and less broken than groups that have tried to do that in the past. 

all 3 of those things would make me more inclined to join.

 

I'm republican, believe in Jesus and like what the tea party stands for.

 

How do we join

[ryan_j 0]

all 3 of those things would make me more inclined to join.

 

I'm republican, believe in Jesus and like what the tea party stands for.

 

How do we join

 

http://www.nj2as.com

[ryan_j 0]

My take is you need to be supporitng a national group, a local group, and a judicial group. 

 

I'm a member of the NRA, GOA, SAF, and NJ2AS. I'm no longer giving money to ANJRPC, I have watched them for years fail to do much of anything noticeable. They will have to convince me otherwise.  I don't contribute to the coalition of NJ sportsmen because it has become clear that they have relegated themselves to a specific niche that does not cover my interests and I'd rather spend my money elsewhere. 

 

ANJRPC disappointed me when their response to the gun bills was "rallies are nice but we are working behind the scenes." But Cherry Ridge is a bargain and is pretty much the closest place for me to shoot. They also were part of the right to carry suit. Scott Bach is also well spoken at the assembly and senate hearings. Anthony Colandro is the vp of ANJRPC by the way, and I know he has his heart and soul in this fight. So plenty of good reasons for me to support ANJRPC. 

[Shane45 807]

There is no secret decoder ring. Simply put, many times as the group coordinates its efforts with other org's to keep from duplicating efforts or undoing another org's efforts, NJ2AS will often get made privy to an undertaking, but not at liberty to discuss what the other organization is planning or pursuing. In that case, it cant be publicaly discussed. Simple as that. But if what they are doing has merit and is a good actionable item, we are fine with standing down or even assisting which has been the case several times. I suspect all org's involved in this struggle share this dillema. As to CCW, I think thats been covered well enough.

[Mark@3R1 0]

Member - proud member

[Smokin .50 1,907]

There is no secret decoder ring. Simply put, many times as the group coordinates its efforts with other org's to keep from duplicating efforts or undoing another org's efforts, NJ2AS will often get made privy to an undertaking, but not at liberty to discuss what the other organization is planning or pursuing. In that case, it cant be publicaly discussed. Simple as that. But if what they are doing has merit and is a good actionable item, we are fine with standing down or even assisting which has been the case several times. I suspect all org's involved in this struggle share this dillema. As to CCW, I think thats been covered well enough.

 

EXCELLENT POINT!  And it actually highlights the double-edged sword of instant communication, and forums which produce OPINIONS instead of FACTS.  The Kids have to try and not "eat their own" in a wide-sweeping Keyboard Commando move.  It's time to "circle-the wagons", NOT look for reasons to mildly disagree.........

 

I can't RUN every organization that I belong to, nor would I even like to try.  Do some groups / associations do certain things better than others?  YES!  So that's why I support them ALL!

[Melgamatic 66]

Might have been in the past but the focus these days is squarely the gun bills in Trenton. 

 

Can I ask a question though, why aren't you interested in the right to carry? 

 

I agree they are doing great work in Trenton.  I've sent them extra donations a few times in the past months.

 

The right to carry is completely uninteresting to me.  I'd like to have the right, but to me there are far more important 2A issues.

[matty 810]

100% agree, there are FAR more important things to fix in NJ than trying to get CCW. I couldn't care less about CCW, have no interest in it for myself. If someone wants to, fine, knock yourself out getting out of state CCW and carrying there.

 

My prefs:

1. Fix the FPID/P2P system to a more modern one WITHOUT adding MORE requirements or expirations, a la S2723. Better yet, get rid of it entirely (I can dream!)

2. Repeal/correct NJAWB to remove M1A carbine

3. Repeal OGAM

4. Exception for CMP to ship rifles to home

5. Fix the ban then allow by exception construct

6. Amend NJ State constitution to include RKBA

 

 

 

 

 

The right to carry is completely uninteresting to me.  I'd like to have the right, but to me there are far more important 2A issues.

[RUTGERS95 890]

http://www.nj2as.com

thank you

[mcbethr 42]

6. Amend NJ State constitution to include RKBA

 

This is actually the most important thing because all other rights stem from this, and we can do it with a ballot measure.

[ryan_j 0]

Well I actually think carry (open or concealed) is most important because NJ laws as written prohibit possession of all loaded firearms EXCEPT <home|place of business|gunsmith|range>. And yeah I do carry out of state but it sucks balls to have to put the thing in a case in the trunk and then take it out at my destination, hoping I don't meet up a NJ trooper who doesn't know the law and decides to lock me up to err on the side of caution. 

 

Likewise I will say that assault weapon issues are very much on the back burner for me except for magazine limits.

 

The current FID card system works for me to be honest. Maybe make the card plastic with a photo, but then again you can go one step further and make it a carry permit, like Connecticut and other states do. (CT has a pistol permit which is required to purchase and carry). There are things that can be done on the back end to decrease the bureaucracy and speed up issuance. 

 

One benefit of carry permits if done right like in other states is to exempt permit holders from the NICS check.