Legal or Not?

[bignic83 0]

I would like to hear what our LEO's on this forum have to say about this video. I have been through many DUI checkpoints and have never had any issues. Jiust answered all the LEO's questions and moved on.

This kid could have avoided all the BS if he did that. My question is that he should have been in the right with his answers and was not sarcastic or a wise ass, but still pissed the officer off. What exactly are my rights at a DUI stop?

 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9e3_1373034153

[RedBowTies88 41]

Absolutely illegal.

[NYMetsFan86 9]

although i did not have time to view the video at work if found this was informative..

http://www.motorists.org/dui/traffic-stop

 

edit: ok watched it, and again i get angry every time i see people get bullied with no probable cause

[NJKen 23]

If he wasnt being such an ass and just rolled his window down he would not have been detained, ID'd, searched, or delayed.  I understand the fundamental idea of the subject in the video but if you are gonna act like an ass you are going to raise suspicion.  This whole "Im gonna go out and make a cop violate my rites" crap really pisses me off.  If he started out being cooperative and it went the way it did thats another story altogether.  

Ken

[bignic83 0]

Yes, he did look quite "prepared" to make this video. Not saying the officer was right or wrong, just want to be sure of my rights. I have been told never to consent to a vehicle search even though I have nothing to hide. Is that good advice? I am now concerned as I would probably end up in jail if the K9 was scratching my truck up.

[RedBowTies88 41]

If he wasnt being such an ass and just rolled his window down he would not have been detained, ID'd, searched, or delayed.  I understand the fundamental idea of the subject in the video but if you are gonna act like an ass you are going to raise suspicion.  This whole "Im gonna go out and make a cop violate my rites" crap really pisses me off.  If he started out being cooperative and it went the way it did thats another story altogether.  

Ken

 

Do are you smoking something? How can you force a cop to violate your rights?

[Larry1851 0]

First, IMHO the kid was being an asshole.  Second, many states have it written in their STATE constitutions that these searches are indeed justified.  While his federal rights may or may not have been violated, I don't know.  I do know his rights can vary from state to state.  For example, in Wisconsin, it's a no go.  In New Jersey, the procedure is upheld by state and federal law (depending on their interpretation).  See the following link: http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/checkpoint_laws.html.  

 

I also saw many comments on LiveLeaks saying, the cops were Nazi's, Bolsheviks, and in general being idiots.  This kids has no idea what it would  be like in a circumstance like that....  My father-in-law was in occupied France during WW2 when a Nazi soldier held a Luger to his head and asked where his food was.  He was 15 years old.  He told the soldier where his food was stashed.  If this were truly a police state they would have dragged his ass out of the car, sicked the dog on him, beat the living shit out of him and let him lie in a ditch.

 

I guess, it's a fine line here.  If it were me, I think my skin would be thick enough and my ego in tact enough to just answer the questions and go on my way.  I don't consider myself a "sheeple", but then again I live in NJ.   

[Bob B 103]

At 5:19 the officer at the window says "it wasn't a very good alert." 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Why exactly do you think this kid was being an a$$ hole? And does that give these cops the right to do the same?

[2ANJ 0]

Why exactly do you think this kid was being an a$$ hole? And does that give these cops the right to do the same?

Who knows, maybe this kid was phucked with before by these cops or any cop for that matter and he just doesnt respect them now.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I meant, what actions did this kid perform that made him an ASS hole? What separates his actions from a person who is protecting their rights?

 

The kid wasnt looking for trouble, every time a cop is on video now the person is looking for trouble? In fact, i commend this guy for doing this, until more people stand up for there rights we will just continue to lose more and more.. One day they will just start randomly pulling over who ever they want, wasting peoples time and violating their rights... oh wait? And because it offends these officers now we are all Lawyers, because it takes a lawyer to understand your rights?

 

And you don't think the kid was nervous and intimidated? LEO's yelling at you, surrounding you and breathing down your neck, and your just trying to keep your cool and make sure they don't violate your rights? The kid made no snippy remarks, didn't insult anyone, and just informed the officers of his rights, but i guess that makes him an A$$.

[silverado427 10,680]

I don't see the problem, The police didn't like the kids answer, so it escalated from there.  I hope the kid has a good lawyer, I know one thing that PD would be paying for a new paint job.

[bzer1 15]

In fact, i commend this guy for doing this, until more people stand up for there rights we will just continue to lose more and more.. One day they will just start randomly pulling over who ever they want, wasting peoples time and violating their rights... oh wait?

I get pulled over at least twice a month returning from my class. I've been told my license plate light is out at least 8 times in the last year. Finally I told the officer to please find a new lie, I've been working on my cars for over 30 years, the effen license plate light is just fine as it has always been. I have no problem with police officers but they really need to stop lying as they're asking people to be honest.

[AlDente67 563]

It is the age old dilemma.  Do you let the officer assume he has power he does not legally have, or do you just answer a question or two and be on your way?

[RUTGERS95 890]

I have always been amazed these stops are not a violation of our rights to begin with. 

[smoe_picka 0]

That kid is a good GREAT American. He is not an asshole. He is defending his rights as well as yours. If more people in this country were to stand up for themselves maybe we wouldn't be swirling in the rim. I just hate the ignorant citizen.  

[ChadShaft 0]

For a group of people that all believe in our rights to own firearms because of the Constitution I really don't see how anyone can say this kid is in the wrong. He knows his rights and he's exercising them. As far as I'm concerned this officer had no right to even raise his voice at him, he's not a parents scolding a small child, he's a public servant, doing a job. I love the police and I believe in our police, but they still need to a person's rights and uphold the law with in a person's rights.

[RUTGERS95 890]

gotta agree with the sentiment towards the kid, he was right and in no way were the police professional.  Even the one cop says and laughs that the 'hit' by the dog wasn't a good one.  Not only that, but since when can the dog jump on the hood and do damage to someones' car?

[NJKen 23]

Do are you smoking something? How can you force a cop to violate your rights?

He didnt force the cop.  By acting like an asshole and refusing to roll down his window he provoked further inspection.  If you have ever dealt with a person that is out of thier mind on drugs you would think differently.

If he would have just rolled down his window he would have been on his way.

Ken

[NJKen 23]

Why exactly do you think this kid was being an a$$ hole? And does that give these cops the right to do the same?

See my post above

Ken

[NJKen 23]

Look people, I am not here to say that the cops where rite or the kid was wrong.  Actually, what they did with the dog is BS in my opinion.  Dont go into a checkpoint and refuse to follow the first thing your told to do and these things dont happen.  That is my point.  None of this would ever have happened if he would have just rolled his window down.  If he would have just rolled down his window and had a short conversation with the cop he would be on his way and never told them is name.  If you think he was rite, go do that crap on the Rt37 bridge by seaside when they set up a checkpoint and see if it goes any better.

Im all for the preservation of my rite not to get killed by a drunk.  I have no problem with DUI check points at all.  I have never been asked anything other than some non descript question.  Usually not the "have you been drinking" one either.  The officers use this to determine if you may have been drinking. 

Ken

[illy 1]

Do are you smoking something? How can you force a cop to violate your rights?

Seriously. 

 

First, IMHO the kid was being an asshole.  Second, many states have it written in their STATE constitutions that these searches are indeed justified.  While his federal rights may or may not have been violated, I don't know.  I do know his rights can vary from state to state.  For example, in Wisconsin, it's a no go.  In New Jersey, the procedure is upheld by state and federal law (depending on their interpretation).  See the following link: http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/checkpoint_laws.html.  

 

I also saw many comments on LiveLeaks saying, the cops were Nazi's, Bolsheviks, and in general being idiots.  This kids has no idea what it would  be like in a circumstance like that....  My father-in-law was in occupied France during WW2 when a Nazi soldier held a Luger to his head and asked where his food was.  He was 15 years old.  He told the soldier where his food was stashed.  If this were truly a police state they would have dragged his ass out of the car, sicked the dog on him, beat the living shit out of him and let him lie in a ditch.

 

I guess, it's a fine line here.  If it were me, I think my skin would be thick enough and my ego in tact enough to just answer the questions and go on my way.  I don't consider myself a "sheeple", but then again I live in NJ.   

What exactly are you talking about? DUI checkpoints or the type of fake-k9-alert search in that video?

 

That kid is a good GREAT American. He is not an asshole. He is defending his rights as well as yours. If more people in this country were to stand up for themselves maybe we wouldn't be swirling in the rim. I just hate the ignorant citizen.  

^This right here.

 

He didnt force the cop.  By acting like an asshole and refusing to roll down his window he provoked it.  If you have ever dealt with a person that is out of thier mind on drugs you would think differently.

If he would have just rolled down his window he would have been on his way.

Ken

 I do. And for some reason, drugged out of their mind people never inspire me to ask them if they are lawyers (video @1:56) or violate their rights just to prove i'm in charge.

[illy 1]

Disclaimer: My brother-in-law, father-in-law (ret,), and best friend of 26 years are cops. I know the job is tough, but I also know that some cops are @$$holes for no reason at all. That guy on the tape, yelling at that kid is one of them.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

He didnt force the cop. By acting like an asshole and refusing to roll down his window he provoked further inspection. If you have ever dealt with a person that is out of thier mind on drugs you would think differently.

If he would have just rolled down his window he would have been on his way.

Ken

he didn't refuse to roll down his window, it was rolled Down plenty enough to communicate. Why must it be all the way down? How is having you window half open provoking anything? Cop got pissed the kid didn't do what he was told when he was told. Plain and simple. You can hear it in his voice. Don't act like the guy had the window all the way up and refused to open it or cracked it an inch.

 

None of this would have happened if the officer could get past the kid not wanting to put his window all the way down.. ALL of that is affirmed by EVERYTHING that happened from that point further. IN FACT the kid had a reason to keep the window up a little judging by the fact the officer tried to open the door numerous times.

[maintenanceguy 510]

If we ignore the fact that it is illegal to stop citizens and demand to see their papers without reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed, this is still wrong.  It's wrong because the police were not there to protect us from drunk drivers as they pretended to be.  They never asked if he was drinking nor did they have any reason to suspect he was.  He was pulled out of his car, detained, and illegally searched because the officer didn't like being told no.  This is an officer that is confused and forgets that he is supposed to enforce the law and believes that he is the law.  The best part is that he even admitted to the other officer that he knew the kid was only exercising his rights while detaining him illegally and searching his car illegally. 

 

There have been a few topics here where there was cop bashing.  This is not one of them.   This cop is bad.  That does not mean that his eagerness to violate someones civil rights to prove a point is the norm among police officers.  I'm shocked that every police officer on this forum isn't screaming for this officer's dismissal - especially considering how pro 2A this group is, I would have thought we were all pretty Pro 1,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and 10 too.  This bad cop is the one that gives the rest a bad name. 

[RUTGERS95 890]

If we ignore the fact that it is illegal to stop citizens and demand to see their papers without reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed, this is still wrong.  It's wrong because the police were not there to protect us from drunk drivers as they pretended to be.  They never asked if he was drinking nor did they have any reason to suspect he was.  He was pulled out of his car, detained, and illegally searched because the officer didn't like being told no.  This is an officer that is confused and forgets that he is supposed to enforce the law and believes that he is the law.  The best part is that he even admitted to the other officer that he knew the kid was only exercising his rights while detaining him illegally and searching his car illegally. 

 

There have been a few topics here where there was cop bashing.  This is not one of them.   This cop is bad.  That does not mean that his eagerness to violate someones civil rights to prove a point is the norm among police officers.  I'm shocked that every police officer on this forum isn't screaming for this officer's dismissal - especially considering how pro 2A this group is, I would have thought we were all pretty Pro 1,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and 10 too.  This bad cop is the one that gives the rest a bad name. 

+1

[KevD 0]

If we ignore the fact that it is illegal to stop citizens and demand to see their papers without reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed, this is still wrong.  It's wrong because the police were not there to protect us from drunk drivers as they pretended to be.  They never asked if he was drinking nor did they have any reason to suspect he was.  He was pulled out of his car, detained, and illegally searched because the officer didn't like being told no.  This is an officer that is confused and forgets that he is supposed to enforce the law and believes that he is the law.  The best part is that he even admitted to the other officer that he knew the kid was only exercising his rights while detaining him illegally and searching his car illegally. 

 

There have been a few topics here where there was cop bashing.  This is not one of them.   This cop is bad.  That does not mean that his eagerness to violate someones civil rights to prove a point is the norm among police officers.  I'm shocked that every police officer on this forum isn't screaming for this officer's dismissal - especially considering how pro 2A this group is, I would have thought we were all pretty Pro 1,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and 10 too.  This bad cop is the one that gives the rest a bad name. 

*******DISCLAIMER=JUST MY OPINION, NOT MEANT TO BASH ANYONE COP OR OTHER WISE*******

i honestly dont feel this cop is the exception, i feel the good cops are the exception. im more surprised that people find this behavior surprising then i am that these officers acted this way. police by nature are intrusive, they ask you what your doing and why whats your name where your going where you came from and why, and if at any point you give them the "wrong" answer then your a target for hours wasted or an exciting trip down to the precinct. these cops were just being cops its in there nature.

[Bob B 103]

One interesting thing brought up by this video is that the officer refuses to answer the question "am I being detained?"  I have noticed that in most of these types of videos, the LEO refuses to answer that question.  An officer can "engage" you indefinitely if you do not exercise your right to simply leave.  Refusing to answer the question is a technique that LEO's use to prolong the encounter to try and discover something.  If an officer gives you an instruction like, "pull your car over there" you have the right to ask if you are being detained.  This determines whether or not the instruction is optional - an attempt to merely prolong the encounter - hoping that you will voluntarily comply and participate.  I think there is a legal argument to be made that if the LEO refuses to answer that question, you have the right to simply walk or drive away.  I think the officer would have a hard time defending his refusal to answer the question as it would have prevented any misunderstanding. 

[Dave_D 0]

IMO these videos are essentially scripted reality TV at this point. You have a guy who is somewhat antagonistic and a LEO who just feels like he's being screwed with and responds accordingly. (In this situation I'll agree somewhat excessively)

 

In this case just like in the "open carry" and "citizenship checkpoint" videos I think you could make the same point by prefacing your interaction with the LEO with one sentence. Something like "I'm a constitutional or civil liberties activist and will only comply within my legal requirement". Then when you refuse to answer there is a known basis why. The LEOs will get the point and you're not stuck there for 30 minutes repeating "Am I being detained?" like a douche.

 

LEOs aren't robots so when they feel they're getting screwed with the attitude should be expected. I look at cops just like I do anyone else in a service industry, I'm courteous to my waiter so he doesn't spit in my food, I don't unnecessarily screw with LEOs because I can't afford a lawyer on retainer.

[bulpup 98]

Considering cops can and do get killed pulling cars over, why would anyone decide that that would be a good time to play the fool?

 

 

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