Is Norinco still banned simply due to low prices?

[jds560 0]

From current importation that is. I know there was some flak in the mid 90's about them trying to smuggle weapons into So-Cal but that was just the scutlebutt.

 

Importation of Norinco would be devastating to US firearm manufacturers. $300 quality (they've vastly improved since the last time they were imported here) 1911's. M14's for all! I think they go for $400 in Canada. AK pattern rifles for about $400 even in the recession, SKS's so cheap they could be given away, just look at Canadian prices. Norinco also makes clones of Sig's and other weapons that typically go for three times the price.

 

As crippling as it would be to the big US companies, it would also lessen the cost of a quality self defense tool and potentially expose more to the shooting sports.

 

I know I would buy because I'm not one of those people that say "I'LL NEVER BUY FROM COMMIES" yet I own a TV, cell phone, and computer made in China..... I look for the best price, I don't care where what I buy is made.

[Underdog 1,593]

I think the bluing has lead in it.  You cannot put Chinese barrels in your mouth. 

[Krdshrk 3,877]

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norinco

 

In 1993, the import of most Norinco firearms and ammunition into the United States were blocked under new trade rules when China's Most Favored Nation status was renewed. The prohibition did not apply to sporting shotguns or shotgun ammunition however. The year subsequent to that, U.S. Customs agents conducted a sting against Atlanta based importers of Norinco firearms. According to an affidavit signed by two of the undercover agents involved in the investigation dubbed "Operation Dragon Fire", representatives from Norinco offered to sell urban gangs shoulder-held missile launchers capable of downing a large commercial airliner.^[2]

In August 2003, the Bush Administration imposed sanctions on Norinco for allegedly selling missile-related goods to Iran.^[2] These sanctions led to a prohibition on imports into the US of the remaining types of firearms and ammunition not covered by the 1993 ban. While neither the Chinese government nor Norinco has denied doing business with Iranian companies, they dismissed the allegation that it involved missile related goods.^[3] Norinco has called the sanctions "groundless and unjustified" and "entirely unreasonable."^[4]

[mcbethr 42]

I have a problem with purchasing guns made in a country that does not let their own citizens use them.  At least Croatia (XD) Germany (H&K) , Austria (Glock), Switzerland (Sig), Brazil (Taurus) and Italy (Beretta) allow their citizens gun rights.

 

I don't think I would do it.  I've been reluctant to purchase a Taurus 1911 - to me, a 1911 should be made in the USA.  But that is just me.

[jds560 0]

I mean even if you want a US made 1911 your options are incredibly limited. Para? I'm not sure if the S&W's are entirely made here. The frames on most Springfields are made in Brasil. Not everyone has Colt or custom build money. Even so, a lot of the small parts are probably made overseas or in Mexico. We live in a global economy.

[10X 3,296]

Importation of Norinco would be devastating to US firearm manufacturers. $300 quality (they've vastly improved since the last time they were imported here) 1911's. M14's for all! I think they go for $400 in Canada. AK pattern rifles for about $400 even in the recession, SKS's so cheap they could be given away, just look at Canadian prices. Norinco also makes clones of Sig's and other weapons that typically go for three times the price.

 

If they're making unlicensed clones of weapons still covered by patents--and I suspect they are--that's another reason to ban import of those models.   Not a factor for 1911's and other old designs, but I suspect Sigs and some of the others may still have patent protection.

[henrym 19]

From current importation that is. I know there was some flak in the mid 90's about them trying to smuggle weapons into So-Cal but that was just the scutlebutt.

 

Importation of Norinco would be devastating to US firearm manufacturers. $300 quality (they've vastly improved since the last time they were imported here) 1911's. M14's for all! I think they go for $400 in Canada. AK pattern rifles for about $400 even in the recession, SKS's so cheap they could be given away, just look at Canadian prices. Norinco also makes clones of Sig's and other weapons that typically go for three times the price.

 

As crippling as it would be to the big US companies, it would also lessen the cost of a quality self defense tool and potentially expose more to the shooting sports.

 

I know I would buy because I'm not one of those people that say "I'LL NEVER BUY FROM COMMIES" yet I own a TV, cell phone, and computer made in China..... I look for the best price, I don't care where what I buy is made.

 

 

You say clone, I say knock off. Its clear you have an affinity for asian guns, but come on. Sig and all of the other companies who they are knocking off put the money into the engineering and R&D. Most machinists worth their salt can replicate just about anything, its product development that takes the talent. Don't be a shitbag and support this kind of crap.

[wooly bugger 1]

On principle, I try to avoid anything made in China. I don't trust the quality, I don't trust that it wasn't made by slave labor, and I don't want to support their economy in any way.

[jds560 0]

On principle, I try to avoid anything made in China. I don't trust the quality, I don't trust that it wasn't made by slave labor, and I don't want to support their economy in any way.

Your tax dollars are supporting their economy though, so that's a moot point. We're going to be repaying China for the stimulus package for YEARS.

 

I say clone, not knockoff. If you look at the firearms I own, I'm not prejudice/bias. I have American & European made weapons. I don't know if the patents have expired or if they're being used under license but you can apply the same principals to the majority of firearms out there. If I were to go buy that mentality the only AR's that should be on the market are Armalite or Colt and 1911's should only be made by the companies around during their introduction. FEG shouldn't be making Hi-Powers... the list goes on

[10X 3,296]

I say clone, not knockoff. If you look at the firearms I own, I'm not prejudice/bias. I have American & European made weapons. I don't know if the patents have expired or if they're being used under license but you can apply the same principals to the majority of firearms out there. If I were to go buy that mentality the only AR's that should be on the market are Armalite or Colt and 1911's should only be made by the companies around during their introduction. FEG shouldn't be making Hi-Powers... the list goes on

There is nothing morally or legally wrong with buying clones based on expired patents.  The patent system grants exclusivity for a period of time, in exchange for the invention being disclosed so that others can use it later.   I think design patents are commonly 14 years, use patents used to be 17, now are 20 years, and in every case there are ways to extend, at least for components (e.g. significantly improve a part, and you can patent it even if it is going into a design that is otherwise off-patent).

 

That's why anyone can build guns based on original 1911, AR, Hi-Power, or other older designs.  You just can't do it with newer designs, or with some gee-wiz wonder part that someone invented and patented recently even though it drops into one of the old classics.

[T Bill 649]

US made, buy once, cry once.

 

Let's see, "Things go better with Colt"

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Your tax dollars are supporting their economy though, so that's a moot point. We're going to be repaying China for the stimulus package for YEARS.

 

I say clone, not knockoff. If you look at the firearms I own, I'm not prejudice/bias. I have American & European made weapons. I don't know if the patents have expired or if they're being used under license but you can apply the same principals to the majority of firearms out there. If I were to go buy that mentality the only AR's that should be on the market are Armalite or Colt and 1911's should only be made by the companies around during their introduction. FEG shouldn't be making Hi-Powers... the list goes on

armalite and colt never had the rights to AR's and 1911's. that's the price of doing business with the military. I believe those designs were open to the market so other companies could compete for contracts..

 

I believe John Browning licensed the 1911 patent.

 

 

Like said, people put a lot of money time and risk into developing something, why on earth should someone be able to just walk by take your hard work and make money off it? Basically, if what you said were true, a company would spend money on a project and would never see a profit if someone else sold your product... they could sell it for much less and still make a profit..because thay have no R&D investment costs.... You ever wonder why china knocks off everything? because very little is actually developed there, so what do they lose?

 

We give companies the right to make money off what they developed, and once enough time has gone by for them to make a profit and recoup development costs the patent expires.. at which point they can compete with companies actually selling the knockoffs. And they Are not clones, there are still industry secrets that never make it on the patents themselves. Take coke for instance... And rarely is something ever an exact copy, which is what a clone would be.

 

I think it was Remington that had an issue with supplying the ACR because the military wanted to share the design with others.

[mcbethr 42]

I mean even if you want a US made 1911 your options are incredibly limited. Para? I'm not sure if the S&W's are entirely made here. The frames on most Springfields are made in Brasil. Not everyone has Colt or custom build money. Even so, a lot of the small parts are probably made overseas or in Mexico. We live in a global economy.

 

My Auto Ordnance was made in the USA.  I'll admit that the AO 1911's are probably the best kept secret right now.

[gunguy1960 2]

Norinco 1911s were very good guns, they even make a colt woodsman clone. Competition is better for the consumer and is what this country is about, even if the left hate it.

[buell508 6]

I mean even if you want a US made 1911 your options are incredibly limited. Para? I'm not sure if the S&W's are entirely made here. The frames on most Springfields are made in Brasil. Not everyone has Colt or custom build money. Even so, a lot of the small parts are probably made overseas or in Mexico. We live in a global economy.

S&W made in USA

Kimber made in usa

ruger made in usa

[djg0770 481]

I have a problem with purchasing guns made in a country that does not let their own citizens use them.  At least Croatia (XD) Germany (H&K) , Austria (Glock), Switzerland (Sig), Brazil (Taurus) and Italy (Beretta) allow their citizens gun rights.

 

I don't think I would do it.  I've been reluctant to purchase a Taurus 1911 - to me, a 1911 should be made in the USA.  But that is just me.

 

I believe you can add CZ (Czech Republic) to that list as well.

[alowerlevel 77]

I wish we could buy them, then we could get great deals like this  https://www.canadaammo.com/product/detail/norinco-1911-government-model-1000-rds-combo-deal/

[gunguy1960 2]

Wow, yes, this is why we need more competition, not less, thanks for sharing that.

[DAHL 58]

Years back you could buy a new Norinco SKS rifle for about $125.00 and an AK style (Mac 90) rifle for $275. The Democrats and Republican George Bush forced though an import ban by executive order and now they are prohibited from importation.  Recently Norinco came out with an all new bull pup .223/5.56 rifle called the T97 that is getting rave reviews in Canada where it is legal. No such luck here in the USA.  Maybe this is good for the US gun manufacturers but I would like to see the T97 built here.  If Trump is elected expect the gun laws to be fairer that with the Communist that we now have in office.

[302w 83]

The Norinco 1911s were supposedly legendary in the quality of the steel and general reliability. Looked like crap though.

 

I consider 1911s heirloom handguns so I would not buy one.

[svt3183 14]

STI

 

I mean even if you want a US made 1911 your options are incredibly limited. Para? I'm not sure if the S&W's are entirely made here. The frames on most Springfields are made in Brasil. Not everyone has Colt or custom build money. Even so, a lot of the small parts are probably made overseas or in Mexico. We live in a global economy.

[9X19 125]

There are plenty of 1911's made in the USA.

[checko 180]

My colt has seen thousands of rounds from me and I bought it used. Still shoots like a laser. How can you beat having a Colt .45

 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk