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Do we have a count down for Christie?

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He's not going to sign them or veto them.  Let them become law all on there own.

 

"I didn't sign it".

 

What is the rumor about him leaving yesterday on vacation at the shore house?

 

I really doubt he will just let them pass. That would serve no purpose for him in NJ or nationally. It would make him look weak and indecisive, both parties would tare him apart with that, it's also completely against his character.

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Don't want to sound like a pessimist, but when I bought my first handgun, I got the 10 rounder. No sense having to spend extra to buy new mags or get them pinned. The big guy will either let the deadline for signing pass, or sign them.

There are no mag limits in any of the bills that are on the table.

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http://www.marlinforum.com/entries/New-Jersey-and-Marlin-22-Assault-Rifles.html

 

In New Jersey itself, the State Supreme Court has made clear that the letter of the 1990 law has to be followed, even if such an innocent rifle as the Model 60 is scapegoated because of the bad legislation. In the 1996 ruling "State v. Pelleteri, 683 A. 2d 555 - NJ: Appellate Div. 1996," the court looked at the case of Joseph Pelleteri who was charged with having an illegal 18-shot Marlin Model 60 in his possession that was not registered as an "assault firearm" with the State.

 

Pelleteri was a competition sports shooter who won the Marlin as a prize in a match (in police combat shooting!) during the late 1980s. This lucky winner never shot the gun; in fact, it was encountered in 1996 still in Pelleteri's safe with the factory tags still on the rifle. When found, he was charged, convicted, and that conviction affirmed on appeal with the state Supreme Court saying, ""When dealing with guns, the citizen acts at his own peril."

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I have 10 round mags. If you're counting base 15.

I have one 10 rounder for my ar's. The other 25 are various 15's. my point was and always has been, every single gun owner in this state needs to make it very evident to these traitors, that we have no intention of complying with their tyrannical laws. I know it will never happen but that's the only way. They won't listen to a handful of people at a town hall meeting, but a couple hundred thousand would make a point.

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If Lonegan had beaten Christie for the Republican nomination in 2009, Corzine would likely have beaten Lonegan, and Buono would be a shoo-in for November. We'd be talking about 1 round magazines and loading moving vans to Pennsylvania and North Carolina.

 

At least if Christie is reelected, we'll have four more years to pretend that the state might have an outbreak of sanity about crime, guns and mental illness (and taxes. Really, the 800 pound gorilla in NJ is taxes) before we need to leave.

 

* The last time I bought a firearm that came from the FFL with more than a 10 round magazine was 1986.

 

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/06/chris_christie_defeats_steve_l.html

 

 

 

 

With 97 percent of the ballots counted, Christie won with 55 percent of the vote. Lonegan garnered 42 percent. Republican Assemblyman Rick Merkt of Morris County, another conservative candidate, was never able to raise enough money to receive matching campaign funds and was not a factor in the GOP race, with less than 3 percent of the vote.

 

Lonegan, 53, conceded shortly after 10 p.m.

 

"The voters have spoken," he told supporters gathered at the East Brunswick Hilton. He immediately threw his support to Christie and congratulated him for a "well-deserved" victory. But he said conservative ideals were not going away.

 

 

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If Lonegan had beaten Christie for the Republican nomination in 2009, Corzine would likely have beaten Lonegan, and Buono would be a shoo-in for November. We'd be talking about 1 round magazines and loading moving vans to Pennsylvania and North Carolina.

 

At least if Christie is reelected, we'll have four more years to pretend that the state might have an outbreak of sanity about crime, guns and mental illness before we need to leave.

 

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/06/chris_christie_defeats_steve_l.html

No..Bob2222 we have four years to strength our forces. No more fucking pretending.

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I really doubt he will just let them pass. That would serve no purpose for him in NJ or nationally. It would make him look weak and indecisive, both parties would tare him apart with that, it's also completely against his character.

"c. The period allowed for the Governor's consideration of a passed bill shall be from the date of presentation until noon of the forty-fifth day next following or, if the house of origin be in temporary adjournment on that day, the first day subsequent upon which the house reconvenes"

 

Since the Sweeney FID bill is S2723, and the Senate is currently in recess, and Monday is the first day following the 45 day consideration period, Christie has until the Senate reconvenes to veto it.

 

As a born pessimist, I'm not hopeful at all. But who know, maybe the fat man will come through on our side.

All we can do is keep calling his office and leaving the message for him to veto S2723, and preparing for the worst.

We're going to get one or the other.

 

edited to add:  The Senate is next scheduled for a session on Monday Aug 19 at 1PM

 

Please take a moment to call Governor Christie and give him an earful for striking another blow against your Second Amendment rights.

Call Governor Christie at 609-292-6000.

 

Urge him to apologize for signing anti-gun bills into law, and insist he VETO the remaining anti-gun bills before him right now including A3659 and S2723.

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"c. The period allowed for the Governor's consideration of a passed bill shall be from the date of presentation until noon of the forty-fifth day next following or, if the house of origin be in temporary adjournment on that day, the first day subsequent upon which the house reconvenes"

 

Since the Sweeney FID bill is S2723, and the Senate is currently in recess, and Monday is the first day following the 45 day consideration period, Christie has until the Senate reconvenes to veto it.

 

As a born pessimist, I'm not hopeful at all. But who know, maybe the fat man will come through on our side.

All we can do is keep calling his office and leaving the message for him to veto S2723, and preparing for the worst.

We're going to get one or the other.

 

edited to add:  The Senate is next scheduled for a session on Monday Aug 19 at 1PM

 

Please take a moment to call Governor Christie and give him an earful for striking another blow against your Second Amendment rights.

Call Governor Christie at 609-292-6000.

 

Urge him to apologize for signing anti-gun bills into law, and insist he VETO the remaining anti-gun bills before him right now including A3659 and S2723.

If it remains unsigned by the the 19th does it become law then? 30 days later? Hoping for the best here.

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"c. The period allowed for the Governor's consideration of a passed bill shall be from the date of presentation until noon of the forty-fifth day next following or, if the house of origin be in temporary adjournment on that day, the first day subsequent upon which the house reconvenes"

 

Since the Sweeney FID bill is S2723, and the Senate is currently in recess, and Monday is the first day following the 45 day consideration period, Christie has until the Senate reconvenes to veto it.

 

As a born pessimist, I'm not hopeful at all. But who know, maybe the fat man will come through on our side.

All we can do is keep calling his office and leaving the message for him to veto S2723, and preparing for the worst.

We're going to get one or the other.

 

edited to add:  The Senate is next scheduled for a session on Monday Aug 19 at 1PM

 

Please take a moment to call Governor Christie and give him an earful for striking another blow against your Second Amendment rights.

Call Governor Christie at 609-292-6000.

 

Urge him to apologize for signing anti-gun bills into law, and insist he VETO the remaining anti-gun bills before him right now including A3659 and S2723.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does it become law on the 19th if he does not veto? Or 30 days later? Hoping that he does veto of course.

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Does it become law on the 19th if he does not veto? Or 30 days later? Hoping that he does veto of course.

If he does not veto on the first day the Senate is in session, the bill becomes law.

 

From the text of the legislation:

 

3.    (New section) a.  Beginning on the first day of the 25th month following the effective date of P.L.    , c.    (C.        ) (pending before the Legislature as this bill), every firearms purchaser identification card issued to a resident of this State and

every permit to purchase a handgun shall be affirmed as embedded information on that resident’s driver’s license issued pursuant to R.S.39:3-10.      A resident 18 years of age or older who has been issued a firearms purchaser identification card and who is the holder of a probationary driver’s license issued pursuant to section 4 of P.L.1950, c.127 (C.39:3-13.4) shall have the issuance of that card affirmed as embedded information on that probationary driver’s license

 

10.  (New section) a. The superintendent shall implement a phase-in program that provides for the issuance of firearms purchaser identifiers that display a digitalized color picture to applicants who have obtained a firearms purchaser identification card prior to the effective date of this act which does not meet the requirements set forth pursuant to this act.  Under the phase-in program, any firearms purchaser identification card issued prior to the effective date of this act shall be set to expire on a date fixed by the superintendent.  Prior to the expiration date fixed by the superintendent, each card holder, and each applicant who wishes to have information embedded indicating that he is qualified and eligible to purchase or receive a handgun, shall be required to submit to a criminal history background check in accordance with subsection a. of section 9 of P.L.    , c.    (C.        ) (pending before the Legislature as this bill) and obtain a firearms purchaser identifier that displays a digitalized color picture of the card holder and is embedded with the appropriate information.

     b.    The superintendent shall implement a procedure to notify the holders of a firearms purchaser identification card issued prior to the effective date of this act of the date that the card is set to expire as well as the manner and location at which the card holder may obtain a firearms purchaser identifier that displays a digitalized color picture of the card holder and is appropriately embedded.

     c.    The phase-in program shall begin on the first day of the seventh month following the effective date of this act, and shall be completed no later than the first day of the 24th month following the effective date of this act.

     d.    A firearms purchaser identifier that displays a digitalized color picture of the card holder and issued pursuant to this act, shall be valid for a period of four years, unless the holder shall otherwise become subject to any of the disabilities set forth in subsection c. of N.J.S.2C.58-3.  A firearms purchaser identifier issued pursuant to this section shall expire on the last day of the 48th calendar month following the calendar month in which it was issued, at which time the firearms purchaser identifier may be renewed in the same manner and under the same conditions that applied to original applications required under this act and N.J.S.2C:58-3.

 

12.  (New section) a. Not later than the first day of the 25th month following the effective date of this act, the Attorney General shall develop and implement a system that allows a retail dealer of firearms to instantly determine, through the use of the information embedded in a prospective firearms purchaser’s firearms purchaser identifier, whether that purchaser is qualified and eligible to purchase a firearm.

     b.    On and after the first day of the 73rd month following the effective date of P.L.    , c.    (C.        ) (pending before the Legislature as this bill), and except as otherwise provided in paragraph (4) of subsection f. of section 4 of this act concerning the issuance of initial firearms purchaser identification cards and, if appropriate, permits to purchase a handgun in certain cases, as herein provided, no retail dealer of firearms or agent or employee of a retail dealer of firearms shall sell, transfer, or assign any firearm to a resident of this State whose firearms purchaser identifier is not embedded with the information required under the provisions of this act and that dealer or agent utilizes the system established pursuant to subsection a. of this section to ensure that the purchaser is qualified and eligible to purchase or receive the firearm.  The system shall affirm that the purchaser is qualified and eligible to purchase or receive the firearm by authorizing the dealer or agent to proceed with the sale or transfer.  If the system affirms that the purchaser is not qualified and eligible to purchase or receive the firearm, it shall notify the dealer or agent that the purchase or transfer of the firearm is denied.  If the system is unable to instantly affirm whether a sale or transfer may proceed or shall be denied, it shall notify the dealer or agent to put a hold on the sale or transfer pending further review and investigation.  The State shall give priority status to all such reviews and investigations so that a final determination on the pending sale or transfer shall be rendered in a timely fashion.

     The system also shall be of a design and with a capacity to facilitate the record keeping and reporting information a dealer is required to perform concerning firearms transactions under N.J.S.2C:58-2 and to ensure that the purchaser or transferee is in compliance with the provisions of paragraph (7) of subsection a. of N.J.S.2C:58-2 and subsection i. of N.J.S.2C:58-3, concerning limitations on the number of handguns that may be lawfully purchased within a 30 day period.

     c.    Between the first day of the 25th month and the first day of the 73rd month following the effective date of this act, the superintendent shall test and evaluate the system developed by the Attorney General to facilitate firearms sales, transfers, and assignments by instantly determining whether a prospective purchaser or assignee is qualified and eligible to purchase or receive a firearm.  The superintendent shall select, and over time expand, the number of the retail licensees to participate in the test.

     If, after 36 months of testing, the superintendent determines that the system is seriously flawed and is incapable of reliably facilitating lawful firearms sales, transfers, and assignments, the superintendent shall so report to the Governor and the Legislature recommending that the provisions of section 2[4] 102 of P.L.   , c.   (C.     ) (pending before the Legislature of this bill) and subsection b. of this section be postponed until such time as the Attorney General and the superintendent shall determine that the system is fully operational and capable of reliably facilitating lawful firearms sales, transfers, and assignments for the residents of this State.

 

     13.  (New section)  a.  On and after the effective date of P.L.    , c.    (C.        ) (pending before the Legislature as this bill), an applicant shall not be issued his initial permit to purchase a handgun or his first firearms purchaser identification card unless the applicant presents evidence of successfully completing a firearms safety class or course of a type approved by the superintendent or has received such training through law enforcement or military service.  Acceptable evidence of successfully completing a firearms safety class or course shall include, but not be limited to, a certificate indicating satisfactory completion of 2[an NRA] a National Rifle Association2 firearms course, a certificate that the applicant is a certified 2[NRA] National Rifle Association2 Firearms Instructor, a copy of a firearms or hunting license or permit from any other jurisdiction that requires the holder to successfully complete an equivalent firearms safety class or course, or any other such documentation, certificate, or certification that the superintendent deems equivalent.

     The course or class, which shall be not more than four hours in total, may be offered by the National Rifle Association, a State or local law enforcement agency, junior college, college, university, firearms training school, or any other entity approved by the superintendent.

     The superintendent shall prescribe the basic curriculum for the firearms safety class or course required under this section.

     In developing that curriculum, the superintendent shall consult with a firearms safety panel which shall consist of four members. Two of the members shall be appointed by the Senate President; one shall represent organizations, associations, or clubs promoting hunting, shooting sports or competitions and one of whom shall represent organizations, associations, or other entities advocating gun violence prevention.  Two of the members shall be appointed by the Speaker of the General Assembly; one shall represent organizations, associations, or clubs promoting hunting, shooting sports or competitions and one shall represent 2[organization] organizations2, associations2,2 or other entities advocating gun violence prevention.  The superintendent shall serve as chair of the panel.  The panel shall meet at those times and in those places as the chair shall determine.

     The curriculum shall include, but not be limited to, classes relating to responsible firearms ownership, safe storage, restricting access to firearms by unsupervised minors, and any other matters relating to protecting the safety and well being of New Jersey’s families and children.

     The basic curriculum shall be adopted within 60 days of the appointment of the panel’s members.  Should the panel fail to adopt the basic curriculum within that timeframe, the superintendent shall act independently in prescribing the provisions of the basic curriculum.

     b.    The superintendent shall prescribe the form or certificate an applicant shall receive, evidencing the successful completion of the firearms safety course required under this section and the manner in which that form or certificate shall be presented in order to qualify for a permit to purchase a handgun, a firearms purchaser identification card, or the embedding of information affirming that a person is the holder of such a card or permit in his firearms purchaser identifier.

     The form or certificate issued pursuant to this subsection shall be valid, and shall 2be2 used, for each renewal of the holder’s firearms purchaser identifier and for any application for a firearms purchaser identification card or permit to purchase a handgun.  An applicant who has successfully completed a firearms safety class or course pursuant to this subsection shall not be required to repeat that class or course as part of any application for any renewal of a firearms purchaser identifier, firearms purchaser identification card, or permit to purchase a handgun.

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If this passes will we be banned from buying ammo in PA until we get this new card?

Not yet, but that day will come within 2 years if S2723 becomes law.

 

Is it time to stock up via mail order ?

It's ALWAYS time to accumulate ammo stocks.

How else can we defeat the Progressive tyrants?

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I'm confused. If S2723 becomes law would are FID's be void in 30 days or in two years?

If 2 yrs that gives me time to get out of this lousy state.

I believe the current FIDs would be valid until the first time you have to renew your DL after the new FID is implemented.

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"28.  (New section) a. The Superintendent of State Police shall promulgate guidelines to effectuate the purposes of this act.  Those guidelines shall include, but not be limited to, policies and procedures governing the regular periodic review of the information stored in the firearms database to ensure that the information is current and accurate, policies and procedures governing the disabling of embedded driver’s licenses and identification cards should their holders be determined to no longer be lawfully qualified and eligible to purchase or receive a rifle, shotgun or handgun, and such other matters as the superintendent 2[deem] deems2 to be appropriate and necessary to effectuate the purposes of this act.

     b.    The Commissioner of Human Services, in accordance with the provisions of the "Administrative Procedure Act," P.L.1968, c.410 (C.52:14B-1 et seq.), and after consultation with the Superintendent of State Police, may adopt rules and regulations necessary to effectuate the purposes of this act.

     c.    The Supreme Court of New Jersey may adopt court rules to effectuate the purposes of this act. 

 

29.  This act shall take effect the first day of the seventh month following enactment, but the Superintendent of State Police and the Commissioner of Human Services may take such anticipatory administrative action in advance as shall be necessary for the implementation of the act."

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So it looks like this? By Monday midnight 8/19/13 the law will be vetoed or goes into effect, unless he sends it back for amendments and then who knows wtf happends.If its passed we can look forward to its tentative inception about Sept 2015......

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So it looks like this? By Monday midnight 8/19/13 the law will be vetoed or goes into effect, unless he sends it back for amendments and then who knows wtf happends.If its passed we can look forward to its tentative inception about Sept 2015......

Correct. I will be perfectly honest with all your guys. I am, for the most part, selecting the firearms I purchase as if I lived in California. NJ is going the same way from a gun law perspective so I may as well use CA as a guideline for my future purchases.  I had even thought about a Hi-point Carbine but I looked up CA law and it is illegal. So you know what, I'm not buying a Hi-point. 

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If this passes will we be banned from buying ammo in PA until we get this new card?

Not yet, but that day will come within 2 years if S2723 becomes law.

 

Is it time to stock up via mail order ?

It's ALWAYS time to accumulate ammo stocks.

How else can we defeat the Progressive tyrants?

 

 

njJoniGuy-

 

Why do you think so? I have never been asked to show ID in PA to purchase ammo.

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Given the Statist nature of government here in the PRNJ, I'm relatively certain that once S2723 becomes law and is implemented, dealers in neighboring states and mail order suppliers in EVERY state will be intimidated by our AG to abide by NJ law, lest they be sued by the State of NJ. As a businessman, would YOU want to have to defend against multiple lawsuits from the deep (taxpayer funded) pockets of the NJ Attorney General?

 

Here is the section of S2723 that will affect our ability to obtain handgun ammo:

 

"16.  Section 1 of P.L.2007, c.318 (C.2C:58-3.3) is amended to read as follows:

     1.    a. As used in this act, "handgun ammunition" means ammunition specifically designed to be used only in a handgun. "Handgun ammunition" shall not include blank ammunition, air gun pellets, flare gun ammunition, nail gun ammunition, paint ball ammunition, or any non-fixed ammunition.

     b.    No person shall sell, give, transfer, assign or otherwise dispose of, or receive, purchase, or otherwise acquire handgun ammunition unless the purchaser, assignee, donee, receiver or holder is licensed as a manufacturer, wholesaler, or dealer under this chapter or is the holder of and possesses a valid firearms purchaser identification card [,] and a valid copy of a permit to purchase a handgun [,] or a valid permit to carry a handgun, or a valid New Jersey firearms purchaser identifier card embedded with information affirming that the person is qualified and eligible to purchase and receive a handgun issued in accordance with P.L.    , c.    (C.        ) (pending before the Legislature as this bill) and first exhibits such card [or], permit, or identifier to the seller, donor, transferor or assignor.

     On or before the first day of the tenth month following the enactment of P.L.    , c.    (C.        ) (pending before the Legislature as this bill), the superintendent shall develop a program for the electronic reporting by dealers, on a real-time basis, of all 1Internet1 handgun ammunition sales and transfers, and information relating to each such sale and transfer.  The reported information shall include the name, age, address, type of firearms identifier exhibited or possessed by the purchaser or transferee, the caliber and numerical amount of ammunition sold or transferred in the transaction, the date of the transaction, and such other information as the superintendent shall deem necessary for the proper enforcement of this section.  The superintendent shall establish an electronic data base containing all such reported information, which shall be available to all law enforcement officers on a real-time basis.  The superintendent shall establish security procedures to protect the confidentiality of the information contained in this data base, which shall preclude access to the information to any person not lawfully entitled to it.  For the purposes of P.L.1963, c.73 (C.47:1A-1 et seq.), the information contained in the data base established pursuant to this subsection shall not be deemed a government record.

     c.    (1) No person shall sell, give, transfer, assign or otherwise dispose of handgun ammunition to a person who is under 21 years of age.

     (2)   No handgun ammunition shall be shipped to an address other than that appearing on the purchaser or transferee’s valid firearms purchaser identification card, valid copy of a permit to purchase a handgun, valid permit to carry a handgun, or valid New Jersey firearms purchaser identifier embedded with information affirming that the person is qualified and eligible to purchase and receive a handgun that was exhibited to consummate the sale or transfer.

     d.    The provisions of this section shall not apply to a collector of firearms or ammunition as curios or relics who purchases, receives, acquires, possesses, or transfers handgun ammunition which is recognized as being historical in nature or of historical significance.

     e.    A person who violates this section shall be guilty of a crime of the fourth degree, except that nothing contained herein shall be construed to prohibit the sale, transfer, assignment or disposition of handgun ammunition to or the purchase, receipt or acceptance of ammunition by a law enforcement agency or law enforcement official for law enforcement purposes.

     f.     Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the transfer of ammunition for use in a lawfully transferred firearm in accordance with the provisions of section 1 of P.L.1992, c.74 (C.2C:58-3.1), section 1 of P.L.1997, c.375 (C.2C:58-3.2) or section 14 of P.L.1979, c.179 (C.2C:58-6.1).

     g.    Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the sale of a de minimis amount of handgun ammunition at a firearms range operated by a licensed dealer; a law enforcement agency; a legally recognized military organization; or a rifle or pistol club which has filed a copy of its charter with the superintendent for immediate use at that range.

(cf: P.L.2007, c.318, s.1)"

 

If the mail-order houses won't ship to NJ customers because they can't read the encoded FID data on your plastic card because they fear being sued (even though title to the ammo changes from them to you as soon as they tender it to the common carrier) what makes you think the LGS in PA or DE would be any less fearful?

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Because nj requires an fid card for handgun ammo now. I've yet to see one pa store that has ever asked to see that to make sure I'm legally allowed to buy handgun ammo. Why would us having some new bullshit law make that any different. Besides, last I was told, there's no legal recourse for the nj ag to take against a pa gun store for selling ammo to a nj residents without scanning his id.

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