FN Five SeveN MK2 Pistol

[SJG 253]

Anyone have one, and what do you think of it?

[tj462nj 32]

it is one of my top favorite guns that I own

[High Exposure 5,662]

I don't have one but I have shot one. I don't see the allure.

 

It is a hard to find and expensive round that performs fairly poorly and in NJ you don't even get the full capacity of the weapon as designed.

 

It was pretty accurate, comfy in the hand and and soft recoiling and I guess it is better than a .22 but other than that Meh.

 

If you an on using it for anything other then target shooting/competitions I would not recommend it.

 

I know a few guys that have shot people in the line of duty and they report terrible terminal effects. I have seen deer put down with them as well with similar results. Very underwhelming.

 

There is some more info here about them on page 2 & 3:

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/58294-the-best-fighting-pistol-ever-made/page-2

[Socom 19]

I don't have one but I have shot one. I don't see the allure.

 

It is a hard to find and expensive round that performs fairly poorly and in NJ you don't even get the full capacity of the weapon as designed.

 

It was pretty accurate, comfy in the hand and and soft recoiling and I guess it is better than a .22 but other than that Meh.

 

If you an on using it for anything other then target shooting/competitions I would not recommend it.

 

I know a few guys that have shot people in the line of duty and they report terrible terminal effects. I have seen deer put down with them as well with similar results. Very underwhelming.

 

There is some more info here about them on page 2 & 3:

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/58294-the-best-fighting-pistol-ever-made/page-2

Idk how much truth to this story ^

[High Exposure 5,662]

Ok then.... What's your opinion on it and on what information did you develop it?

 

What do the guys that you know that have used the FN 5.7x28 round in a shooting have to say about the effectiveness of the round?

 

Why don't you be a little more productive on the topic then just calling me a liar...

[Jon 264]

Like HE said, the evidence strongly supports that is an overall crappy round for practical performance.

 

With that being said, having shot Tony's 5-7, the damn thing is just fun to shoot. Large muzzle blast with no recoil, flat shooting, just an overall enjoyable range gun. Keep in mind that some ranges will not allow it due to a fear of excessive wear to the backstop.

[NJKen 23]

I have the original five seven and I can not say anything bad about it.  I can hit the backstop at the 200 yard range with it! 

Seriously though, It is a nice flat shooting pistol that you can get a group with at 50 yards relatively easy with very little recoil.  The huge muzzle blast is worse with the American eagle ammo than the FNH blue tip sporting round.  I think the FNH ammo is slightly more accurate.  The ballistic tip Vmax flies truer than the AE FMJ.

The biggest drawback is that this gun destroys brass.  It will blow the shoulder of the cartridge out about 1/8"  This makes reloading tricky.  The brass has a one or two reload max before the neck snaps off in the chamber, a new round gets jammed in it, the gun goes boom.  In other words, It is not reloader friendly at all.  At time the ammo is extremely difficult to find.  Rite now its everywhere so go buy some if you are serious about the pistol.

Ken

[Shane45 807]

I think the effectiveness or lack thereof is well documented enough for anyone to find that may doubt the claim. With that being said, i suspect that people like high exposure, myself and others on this forum base our criteria on different requirements than others. Although at this time i dont do it, i readily recognise not all people require utilitarian usefulness or difined roles for their firearms. Many people buy things for many other reasons including its simply cool or fun.

[areacode201 4]

I'm not doubting you guys who question the effectiveness of the 5.7 round... but doesn't the Secret Service use FiveSevens? Now they use the "real" 5.7 ammo I'm sure, could that be the difference? SS190 I think it's called.

 

Anyway I shot my friend's FiveSeven a few times. It's a cool gun but I wouldn't spend $1200 on it.

[High Exposure 5,662]

They use P90s for certain limited tasks. All the SS guys I know carry Sigs in .357 sig as sidearms. The CAT guys I know (SS SWAT) all carry M4s. None of them know anyone that carries a FN fiveseven. My team assisted the SS the last 2 times the President came to NJ as a tertiary perimeter. I didn't see a single FiveSeven pistol.

[SJG 253]

There is alot of info on this weapon on FN USA website, the five seven forum, with an indication of different models, the MK2 being the newest, and different loads designed for this weapon from military, law enforcement and civilian. The weapon is very cool looking and quite unique in many ways. I enjoy reading everyone's input on the issue. The more information the better. I have not fired one and it is interesting to hear from those who have

 

Any comments on this write up I found:

The FN Herstal Five-seveN pistol has been in the news quite a bit lately, so we wanted to do a factual and honest review of the pistol.

When it was released in 1998 the Five-seveN pistol was marketed as a companion firearm for the P90 submachinegun, which fires the same round. Both are designed around the 5.7×28 cartridge which has a lower weight than standard intermediate rifle cartridges, allowing soldiers to carry more ammunition.

But the Five-seveN pistol has been controversial since it’s debut. Detractors derided it, calling it high-powered and unsuitable for civilian ownership.

In 2004, the Brady Campaign began to claim that commercial ammunition available for the firearm penetrated level IIa kevlar ballistic vests. In their attacks on the pistol, they called it a “cop-killer.” Investigation by the ATF found that no commercially available ammunition fired out of the 5.7 pistol was capable of defeating ballistic armor.

Even more recently, the pistol was allegedly used by US Army Major Nidal Malik Hasan when he opened fire on personnel at Fort Hood in Texas. Again, the pistol was called a “high-caliber cop-killer” and even the Austin American Statesmen said that “One military expert said it was a weapon that no doctor — not even a military one — would normally carry.” The newspaper was unable to provide a source for the comment, and did not have an exact quote.

The actual Five-seveN Tactical pistol weighs in at 1 pound 4.5 ounces empty, and 1 pound 11.6 ounces fully loaded. Indeed, one of the primary advantages of the Five-seveN pistol is it’s light weight. This, combined with the low recoil and muzzle rise, makes the pistol very easy to fire and keep on target.

The 5.7×28 cartridge was initially developed as a low-weight high-velocity round with a AP (armor penetrating) steel core bullet. Designers of the 5.7mm cartridge wanted a powerful round that was light weight, so that soldiers would be able to carry more ammunition. The solution that they came up with is the 5.7x28mm cartridge loaded with SS190 bullets.

SS190 bullets are not available for sale to the public, and are heavily restricted due to their armor piercing capability. Instead, SS195LF (28 grain lead free hollow point) and SS197SR (40 grain ballistic tip hollow point) are the only ammunition available for purchase.

It is frequently and incorrectly reported that the 5.7×28 is an extremely powerful round. In fact, the 5.7 is a relatively weak round, carrying less energy than 9mm ammunition frequently carried by police and used by our own military in the standard issue M9 pistol.

On April 2nd, 2009, the Los Angeles Daily news reported on a shooting involving a Five-seveN pistol and they commented saying “Authorities have noticed an increase in high-caliber weapons in Los Angeles. One of the most startling incidents was when a Fabrique National 57, an assault pistol used to kill big game…” They went on to quote LAPD Deputy Chief Michel Moore who said about the pistol “You use it on large lions, tigers and bears.”

Nothing could be further from the truth.

The 5.7×28 cartridge is not appropriate for use on anything except small game, such as squirrels and rabbits. Indeed, the ballistic performance of the 5.7×28 cartridge is remarkably similar to the .22 Magnum round. The table below gives a side by side comparison between various 5.7 loads and .22 magnum loads. Edited: The following data was gathered from cartridges fired from a 16″ barrel. Actual muzzle velocities in autoloading handguns will be lower.

Cartridge Weight Muzzle Velocity Muzzle Energy 5.7×28 SS190 AP FMJ 32 gr (2.1 grams) 2,350 ft/s (716 m/s) 397 ft·lb (538 Joules) .22 Magnum HP 30 gr (1.9 grams) 2,200 ft/s (670 m/s) 322 ft·lb (437 Joules) 5.7×28 SS197SR JHP 40 gr (2.6 grams) 1,950 ft/s (594 m/s) 340 ft·lb (461 Joules) .22 Magnum JHP 40 gr (2.6 grams) 1,910 ft/s (580 m/s) 324 ft·lb (439 Joules)

So, if the 5.7×28 is such a weak round, how is the SS190 AP ammunition capable of defeating ballistic armor? The answer is the high velocity at which it travels, combined with the steel penetrator at it’s core. Most bullets, including 5.7mm ammunition available to the public, have a lead core. Lead deforms significantly when it impacts a ballistic vest, spreading out the force of the impact and preventing the bullet from penetrating the multiple layers of fabric. SS190 ammunition, only available to police and military, has a steel penetrator that, when fired at the high velocity of the 5.7×28 cartridge, is capable of cutting through kevlar vests because it does not deform as lead does.

Pictured below is the Five-seveN USG pistol, one of the later variants that featured a tactical rail and single action trigger.

 

[LorenzoS 100]

The 5.7 round has ony two benefits, neither of which you can take advantage of.  You cannot buy the AP round and in NJ you cannot take advantage of the ultra high capacity.  If you want one because it's interesting or unique then go for it, but I would never select this as a defensive pistol.

[High Exposure 5,662]

The "ultra high capacity" isn't even that big of a deal. In Free America you can get usable sized (not those 33 round stick mags) 20-22 round 9mm and .40 mag extensions for Glocks from Arredondo, I have one at work that functions flawlessly.

[Shane45 807]

In regards to who in the USSS actually carries one, I believe it is the uniformed division manning guard posts.

[RubberBullets 65]

I think OP was looking for all around experiences from those that have/shot it. Rather than a walk down ballistic performance debates for HD purposes. If someone asked about a Colt Commander would we have gotten into a .45 vs 9 debate (probably)

 

 

I think the two tone OD makes the 5x7 look a little less ugly..Other than that the styling is bulbous and hurts to look at.I have not shot it, but it sure as hell looks fun to shoot. Would add this to my long list for one day to put into the safe.

[High Exposure 5,662]

The OP simply asked "Anyone have one, and what do you think of it?"? Performance of the round plays a large factor in what I think of it, how could it not.

 

The OP also posted an article that discussed the shortcomings and misperceptions of the 5.7x28 round himself.

 

I said, as did others, it is a light, controllable, and comfortable pistol. For use at the range or in comps, or if you just want one, go for it. For use as a defensive/HDA pistol, there are other cheaper alternatives that are more effective.

[SJG 253]

I shot one today in PA with the 20 round mag and the FN blue tip round. This handgun is very cool and fun to shoot. I love the flash that you get when you fire a round. This gun is dead accurate and has no recoil.  My question is, if I want to buy one, who can modify the mags to 15 rounds?

[DargZ 5]

My question is, if I want to buy one, who can modify the mags to 15 rounds?

Try speaking with Rick at OMG.  He has one for sale and said he can limit the mag to 15.

[NJKen 23]

They do come with 10 round mags for the neutered states. 

You can take the debate about power out of the equation if you just want a good target gun.  Very low recoil and fast follow up shots are what I like the best about it.  I personally would not like to be shot by one.  There are a few people in Ft Hood that would have preferred not to also.

Ken

[High Exposure 5,662]

They do come with 10 round mags for the neutered states.

You can take the debate about power out of the equation if you just want a good target gun. Very low recoil and fast follow up shots are what I like the best about it.

Agreed!

 

I personally would not like to be shot by one. There are a few people in Ft Hood that would have preferred not to also.

Ken

Neither would I. Come to think of it, I would prefer not to be shot with a BB gun, or a .22, or a .25, or a .32, etc... either. That doesn't mean I'm going to carry one protect to myself or loved ones.

 

And yes, a lot of people (13) died at Fort Hood on November 9, 2009 in that cowardly attack by that scumbag terrorist. But a lot more people (32) who were shot with that 5.7 round lived as well, Including one of the Cops that was able to continue the fight and return fire after being shot twice (I think in the ankle and femur).

 

ETA: Correction: Officer Munley, the female responding Officer that was shot did not return fire after being hit. She suffered frag to her hand, as well as a shot to the ankle and femur. Her partner, Sgt. Todd finished the fight and was not wounded.

Edited July 29, 2013 by High Exposure

[SpeedKillz 0]

Anyone have one, and what do you think of it?

 

 

The Five-seveN pistol is the lightest, highest capacity pistol you will probably ever fire. It has a huge muzzle blast, is as loud as a 10mm, and always gets attention at the range. While the factory ammo doesn't tap the full potential of the Five-seveN, it has proven to be more than enough to take down humans as well as medium-sized game. Recoil is quite a bit less than 9mm, 5.7 ammo weighs 50% less than 9mm, and with an inch and a half mag extension you can have 31 shots at your disposal. Fast and accurate follow up shots is the Five-seveN's ace in the hole. 

 

Considering FN limits the power of factory ammo because of its armor-penetrating characteristics and all the "Cop-Killer" hub-bub, aftermarket ammo is where the 5.7 really shines. You can buy 5.7 ammo that reaches 405 ft-lbs and 2,600 fps out of the pistol or 670 ft-lbs and 3,400 fps out of the PS90. That ain't your grandaddy's 22WMR.. I carry my Five-seveN concealed and loaded with S4M. A little info about the S4M round:

 

 

It was the general opinion of three physicians-two military surgeons with oversea deployment and a trauma surgeon who operated on roughly a thousand gunshot wounds, that nobody could survive an S4 torso hit unless it took place right in the operating room- and even then it would be at best a toss up." -Dr. JD Brown

 

 

As tested, both 5.7x28mm cartridges offer lethality that is on par with or slightly greater than a .45ACP 230gr jacketed hollowpoint. This is accomplished through an intelligent usage of the pitch/yaw cycle inherent to any spin-stabilized projectile – the nose of the 5.7mm bullets travel through the first 2” of ballistic gelatin in a nose-forward orientation, which minimizes drag. As such, the very impressive amount of kinetic energy lost by most expanding bullets in the first few inches of penetration have little or no effect on the human target and actually decreases the effectiveness of expanding ammunition in incapacitating a target.

 

Conversely, the FN SS-195 and the Elite Ammunition S4M offer performance quite similar to the tested .45ACP, with considerably lower recoil and ammunition weight, coupled with a significantly higher weapon magazine capacity. We feel that the Elite Ammunition S4M can be seen as a “+P” version of the very effective 27gr 5.7mm FMJ and we have no qualms about recommending this cartridge as a feasible replacement to the more conventional .45ACP handgun, for use against human attackers. -Brass Fetcher Ballistic Testing

 

Since pictures are worth a thousand words, and no discussion of terminal ballistics is complete without something being terminal; have a look at some animals that were released from their corporeal existence thanks to the Five-seveN pistol: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The 160-pound hog in the first two pictures was dropped with one round of SS197SR (not sure about the hog in the third picture). 

 

The 182-pound deer in the last picture was dropped from 70 meters with one round of SS197SR through the lungs/heart. -- ("8pt 182 lb shot with fn5-7 at 70 m, with burris fastfire. ss197 ammo went through ribs to expand and take out both lungs and heart ...instant kill!!!!)

 

 

 

 

More hunting data...

 

 

 

 

okay.  saw no hogs in texas.  (and i thought they had a problem with hogs....only problem i had was i saw no hogs.

 

anyhow Rifle season for deer opened up on sat.  i was working so i missed sat but i made it out on sunday.  nada.  well monday was the charm.

 

i got a medium doe with my PS90.  35-45 yards away.  used SS197.  shot her in the chest.  double lung.  she walked 10-15 paced and that was it.  i found the round just under the skin on the opposite side.  it had also passed through her shoulder.  it missed her ribs and other bones as far as i can tell right now

 

then as i was cleaning her, a medium buck walked by.  i used my new (got it friday the 18th) Colt 45 special combat govt.  i used my reloads.  230gr JHP rounds.  he was 30-40 yards away.  again, a double lung shot.  he walked about 12-15 paces and died.

 

i could not believe that while i was cleaning one another walked on by.

 

 

 

 

 

now for the fun part.  i have not found the 45 acp round yet.  it passes through and may have hit the flat part of his shoulder.  i found a very small exit hole in his outer fur.  the holes on the inside of the rib cage were not all that big.

 

the 5.7x28 round was a different story.  it passes through the body cavity and through the muscle of her shoulder.  it stopped just below the skin/fur.  the hole on both sides of the rib cage were 2-3 times bigger than the 45acp holes.  the 5.7 round holes were probably like 2-2.5 inches in diameter.  i shot a couple  of quick snaps and used a quarter for size.  the holes are 9 o'clock in one photo and 11 o'clock in another...between the ribs 

 

photos here: http://photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=1020723

 

i found three pieces of the SS197 round.  i found all three pieces in roughly the same spot.

 

 

 

 

 

a very interesting day.  i will get more photos after we get the skins off.  i will get better measurements and see if i can find the 45 round.

 

please see these photos for the measurements of the 3 pieces from the 5.7 round.  http://photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=1020723

 

eddie

[SpeedKillz 0]

This is more like what I hear about people that have hunted with the very relatively low-powered (compared to what you can buy from EA) factory SS197 round. It does a LOT more damage than what they were expecting. When analyzing the effects of 5.7x28mm rounds on living tissue it requires one to actually see the effects on tissue, not just make a prediction based on grain weight, velocity, and energy. You have to understand the bullets behavior when impacting flesh at a certain speed. In the SS197's case, the 40gr ballistic V-Max round has shredded a lot of game over the years. 

 

 

 

Here are a few more second-hand accounts of the 5.7 used against game:

 

 

I love my 5.7, and It makes a great carry gun for hiking as it is light and I can carry it and 60 rounds that weighs less than one loaded 1911 with 8 rounds. My old man took a coyote out with one in the yard and it put a hole out the other side of the chest the size of a cantaloupe (It was an oblique shot no less).

 

 

 

I'd really like to see just one topic that celebrates this unique cartridge instead of calling it a novelty. I trust my five seven as much or more than any of my other firearms. It has jammed exactly as many times as my S&W 686 (that's a revolver kids).

 

Two weeks ago I came across a half dead deer on the side of the road, coming home from the range. I used the five seven to put the poor thing down, and the head/neck wound was probably the most gore I have ever seen besides fresh roadkill. I have no doubts to the lethallity of this caliber, seeing as one round of SS197 made such a graphic fatal wound on a living animal, where a round nosed bullet from the same distance could have potentially bounced off the skull.

 

Lightweight, very dependable, low recoil, high capacity, accurate, low maintainence and very easy field stripping. How are these bad things?

 

 

 

I've killed 2 (medium-sized hogs), and with both I put several rounds of ss192 (this is the hollow-point round that tumbles and does not fragment like the SS197) into them. Not sure how many it actually would have taken to kill them, but they were dead when I walked up. 

 

The first one I shot I hit 2 times right off the bat,(straight into the side) missed with 2 and then put about 4 more in. It was not moving away from me after the first 2 (it was moving in kind of a circular out of control movement), but I was rapid firing so I killed dirt with shots 3 and 4. Shots 5-8 were all over it

 

The 2nd hog was a headshot (from the side) with round one and the next 4 were all hits in the side and then belly. It didn't move after the first shot. 

 

These were both medium sized ferral hogs shot at dusk using the laser and the light on the M6. I normally hunt with a Russian Nagan and a .45 Baby Eagle. The weekend I got these I had forgotten my Nagant ammo so decided to try something different. Glad I did...It was a freaking blast to hunt hogs this way.

 

 

I always laugh when people badmouth the Five-seveN.... I have seen what it does to flesh, and it's definitly something to have respect for. The cool thing is I have also shot squirrel with it and it just leaves a little hole with ss192. A gun that you can realistically hunt hog and squirrel with is one kick ass gun indeed. 

 

Now, some are curious as to the wound pattern. In the Squirrels, it's just a 5.7 hole straight through. In the hogs broadside it's a small entrance hole and a nasty cavity, but as you would expect the round stays in. How deep depends on what it hit. I didn't get exactly surgical so I can only tell you that the couple we looked at (one we actually cut open which unfortunatly for me was a gutshot that was just ugly as hell) were pretty impressive and about what you would expect from a .223 really. Honestly, in larger animals it ends up similar to, but below a .223, but the round stays amazingly unhurt. I actually have one round that was inside one of the hogs that we picked up a few months later in the spot where it rotted and aside from the rifleing it looks like you could stick it back in a shell and refire it.

 

 

 

I went out into the South Dakota wilderness this morning to shoot some of my 35 and 40 grain reloads (all functioned PERFECTLY with no failures of any kind with brass trimmed to 1.128 and 6.5 grn of HS-6 [OAL on the 35 - 1.46, 40grn 1.58])

 

Interesting though, as I was walking the 2+ miles back to my truck I stepped in a hole and sank up to my calf. The ground felt kind of strange and started to move. Something seemed to bite into my sole. Sensing that something was TERRIBLY wrong I pulled my foot out of my boot just in time to watch something furry and loud pull my boot underground. 

 

I went to the hole and was rushed by a 20 lb badger. I opened up with the 5-7. First round took the top of the skull off. I dug out the hole and found several more badgers. I shot them all in the hole (SD law alows Badgers and other varmits/predators to be shot essentially at will) and then cut them open to see the damage.

 

It looked like a bomb went off in them. To see what a .45 +P+ would do, I shot one in the flesh around the shoulder. Blew it out the back. However the wound channel was not as impressive as with the 35 & 40 V-Max, probably because the badger was not thick enough for the 230grn hollowpoint to expand enough. The .45 just made a really clean hole through and through. I was unable to find much of either weight V-Max (just little pieces here and there, most still in the badger, depending on angle of entry).

 

In my opinion I think this round has GREAT possibilities for varmiting. I can't wait for the rifles to come out for it.

 

 

 

"looked like a bomb went off"

 

That's what the gutshot in the hog looked like. It was just nasty...everything was mushy and shredded.

 

 

 

Some asked about stopping power. Last winter, a 1200 pound moose cow was hit by a car,she was still standing up but had a broken leg. No way would she survive. State Troopers or Fish & Feather usually put the moose down. The Troopers were going to be busy for the next couple hrs,I couldn't see the moose suffering that long. I was able to drop the moose with one shot and fired a second shot once down to make sure she was down for good. I was surprised the moose went down on the first shot and I'm pretty sure she was dead before firing the second round.

 

I now feel comfortable enough to carry my Five Seven full time.

 

 

 

I have a couple of friends that have PS90's. They brought them on a hog hunt last month and I couldn't believe they were putting down some good sized hogs (150lbs.+) with one shot, maybe two of SS197 (blue tip). I would've never believed it if I hadn't seen it for myself. I even shot a 180lbs hog with one shot out of a PS90. At approx. 50yds the hog went down like it hit a brick wall. The 5.7 literally dropped that hog like a 7.62x51 (.308).

 

 

I've had one (Five-seveN) now for about three years. Probably put 400 rounds of 197 total through it. No failures, very accurate. 

 

I quantify the effectiveness of cartridges by how they kill critters. I hunt with a lot of different handguns on a lot of different critters. My favorite critter for testing handguns is Javelina. I've shot them with 9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP, 357mag... You can shoot two a year in Texas and where I hunt they are plentiful.

 

I shot one a couple years ago with my 5.7 using SS197. It chrono's out of my pistol at 1760fps. The Javelina I shot was at 60 yards. It moved as the shot broke and hit it in the left hip ranging forward into the body cavity. It went down with a broken hip but with the front end still up, so I shot it again behind the left shoulder penetrating the chest and off side shoulder. The little pig was dead quick. The bullet crossing the chest boiled the lungs and cut off the top of the heart. Pretty nasty wound.

 

It weighed about 45 pounds so not a big critter, but the performance was at least as good as any 9mm I've used.

 

 

 

 

This bit of info isn't about hunting but does offer some more data on the round that a lot of people have had success hunting with - the SS197 V-Max.

 

 

I have recently been seriously debating adopting this as a carry weapon. Obvious problem - this round has very very little documented real world data in self defense shootings. There are those that claim it is nothing more than a .22 Magnum. After extensive study and some tests of my own, I have concluded, quintessentially, that this simply isn't true and the sheer velocity of the round and its design to tumble and perform in that way similar to the 5.56x45 NATO (.223) round does infact make this cartridge at least potent enough to consider for real world self defense applications. 

 

I will outline my test here - 5 frozen gallon jugs of water at approximately 8 meters distance. Shot with 158 gr. 38 special, 124 gr 9x19mm, 180 gr. 40S&W, and lastly 40 gr SS197 5.7x28mm.

 

38 spc - passed through with very little visible shock and basically a single channel

9mm - through with a decent amount of shock

40S&W - rather serious amount of visible shock and large exit hole

5.7mm - I wish I has photographed it. Essentially, complete devastation from shock of nearly the entire block could be seen. Unlike any of the other rounds.

 

[SpeedKillz 0]

I don't have one but I have shot one. I don't see the allure.

 

It is a hard to find and expensive round that performs fairly poorly and in NJ you don't even get the full capacity of the weapon as designed.

 

It was pretty accurate, comfy in the hand and and soft recoiling and I guess it is better than a .22 but other than that Meh.

 

If you an on using it for anything other then target shooting/competitions I would not recommend it.

 

I know a few guys that have shot people in the line of duty and they report terrible terminal effects. I have seen deer put down with them as well with similar results. Very underwhelming.

 

There is some more info here about them on page 2 & 3:

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/58294-the-best-fighting-pistol-ever-made/page-2

 

Is that urban legend still circulating? LOL!! 

 

Here is a 2003 Florida Times-Union article on a Jacksonville shooting with the P90. To give everyone some background, it is frequently claimed by detractors that the P90 performed poorly in shootings with Jacksonville SO SWAT. In some of the more absurd stories, it's claimed that the subject was shot 50 times and that he said "stop shooting me with that thing". 

 

Of course, none of these details are claimed in this news article. Instead, it says the subject died after being shot 15 times and there is no indication that he fired back at SWAT after being shot. The SWAT officer most likely fired one burst (at 900 RPM, 15 shots is a one second trigger squeeze) or a series of short bursts. Regardless, the subject was stopped and no one else was harmed. A search of the website doesn't bring up any similar incidents. Here is the article for your information:

 

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/072403/met_13102142.shtml

 

 

 

 

The "ultra high capacity" isn't even that big of a deal. In Free America you can get usable sized (not those 33 round stick mags) 20-22 round 9mm and .40 mag extensions for Glocks from Arredondo, I have one at work that functions flawlessly.

 

 

The 33-round Glock magazine is much, much larger than the 30-round Five-seveN magazine. If you have trouble carrying a Five-seveN with a flush-fit magazine, you will have much more trouble carrying a 33-round Glock magazine, even as a reload. 

 

A 30-round Five-seveN magazine is relatively easy to carry because it's hardly larger than the standard magazine, and it's still extremely light (a loaded 30-round Five-seveN magazine weighs less than a 17-round Glock magazine).

 

 

The Glock 17 empty w/ magazine: 25 ounces

 

The Five-seveN full (20 rds) w/ magazine: 26 ounces

 

 

 

 

Agreed!

 

Neither would I. Come to think of it, I would prefer not to be shot with a BB gun, or a .22, or a .25, or a .32, etc... either. That doesn't mean I'm going to carry one protect to myself or loved ones.

 

And yes, a lot of people (13) died at Fort Hood on November 9, 2009 in that cowardly attack by that scumbag terrorist. But a lot more people (32) who were shot with that 5.7 round lived as well, Including one of the Cops that was able to continue the fight and return fire after being shot twice (I think in the ankle and femur).

 

ETA: Correction: Officer Munley, the female responding Officer that was shot did not return fire after being hit. She suffered frag to her hand, as well as a shot to the ankle and femur. Her partner, Sgt. Todd finished the fight and was not wounded.

 

Per news reports, most of the wounded were shot in limbs and other non-vital areas of their bodies. A fatality rate of about 30% is average (or above-average) for handgun bullets in shootings across the nation. There is no reason to think the exact same results would not have been produced with a 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP pistol. See, for example:

 

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-02-06/justi...ent?_s=PM:CRIME

 

Two men were arrested Sunday in connection with a shooting that left an Ohio university student dead and 11 other people wounded, police said. 

 

<snip> 

 

The shooting happened at a house where members of the Omega Psi Phi fraternity were holding a party, Hughes said. 

 

<snip> 

 

Authorities found multiple shell casings from two semiautomatic handguns, one a .40-caliber and the other a .45-caliber, Hughes said.

 

 

 

Officer Munley returned fire before being hit, but she did not hit the killer. Her Beretta eventually jammed. The damage to her wrist came from shrapnel off a round that struck a nearby rain gutter. She was hit with bullets a total of two times -- once in the thigh and then once in the femur. This is not to demean her efforts in stopping the killer, but she was actually lying on the ground badly wounded when a second police officer, Sgt. Mark Todd, stopped the killer ambushing him from around a corner. Munley was already fading out of consciousness when medics reached her - she almost died from blood loss. The killer was eventually hit 5 times with 9x19mm, by the way, and he survived.

 

The 5.7x28mm bullet that hit Munley's femur knocked her to the ground, and the killer walked up to her and knocked her pistol out of reach. The bullet shattered her femur (the strongest bone in the body) into "hundreds of bone fragments" according to her comments. All of this information is corroborated by a number of witnesses including Munley herself, on both her blog and in her trial testimony. Munley underwent a knee replacement operation and she won't be able to do patrol work anymore.

[Shane45 807]

Im not terribly interested in what it does to porky pig or a frozen milk jug. Im interested in the experiences of those that have operationally deployed with the system. Almost all I have talked to have rejected the system.....effectiveness in the AAR being the number 1 complaint. If you want to bet your life on it, be my guest, I wont be joining you. On the civy side of the fence, in the rifle world, why would I logically choose a 5.7/PS90 when a full 16" barrel 5.56 in the same size package is available? In a pistol, the capacity doesnt really hold any attraction for me. I have yet to see a compelling case of a protracted gunfight in the context of a civilian...so I will stick with my 45. There is no escaping that the effectiveness of the 5.7 is strongly in question. There isnt anything in that system that makes it worth the risk to go that route if effectiveness is the key criteria, in my opinion.

[RubberBullets 65]

 

 

The Five-seveN pistol is the lightest, highest capacity pistol you will probably ever fire. It has a huge muzzle blast, is as loud as a 10mm, and always gets attention at the range. While the factory ammo doesn't tap the full potential of the Five-seveN, it has proven to be more than enough to take down humans as well as medium-sized game. Recoil is quite a bit less than 9mm, 5.7 ammo weighs 50% less than 9mm, and with an inch and a half mag extension you can have 31 shots at your disposal. Fast and accurate follow up shots is the Five-seveN's ace in the hole. 

 

Considering FN limits the power of factory ammo because of its armor-penetrating characteristics and all the "Cop-Killer" hub-bub, aftermarket ammo is where the 5.7 really shines. You can buy 5.7 ammo that reaches 405 ft-lbs and 2,600 fps out of the pistol or 670 ft-lbs and 3,400 fps out of the PS90. That ain't your grandaddy's 22WMR.. I carry my Five-seveN concealed and loaded with S4M. A little info about the S4M round:

 

 

 

 

 

Conversely, the FN SS-195 and the Elite Ammunition S4M offer performance quite similar to the tested .45ACP, with considerably lower recoil and ammunition weight, coupled with a significantly higher weapon magazine capacity. We feel that the Elite Ammunition S4M can be seen as a “+P” version of the very effective 27gr 5.7mm FMJ and we have no qualms about recommending this cartridge as a feasible replacement to the more conventional .45ACP handgun, for use against human attackers. -Brass Fetcher Ballistic Testing

 

Since pictures are worth a thousand words, and no discussion of terminal ballistics is complete without something being terminal; have a look at some animals that were released from their corporeal existence thanks to the Five-seveN pistol: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The 160-pound hog in the first two pictures was dropped with one round of SS197SR (not sure about the hog in the third picture). 

 

The 182-pound deer in the last picture was dropped from 70 meters with one round of SS197SR through the lungs/heart. -- ("8pt 182 lb shot with fn5-7 at 70 m, with burris fastfire. ss197 ammo went through ribs to expand and take out both lungs and heart ...instant kill!!!!)

 

 

 

 

More hunting data...

 

 

 

 

 

anyhow Rifle season for deer opened up on sat.  i was working so i missed sat but i made it out on sunday.  nada.  well monday was the charm.

 

i got a medium doe with my PS90.  35-45 yards away.  used SS197.  shot her in the chest.  double lung.  she walked 10-15 paced and that was it.  i found the round just under the skin on the opposite side.  it had also passed through her shoulder.  it missed her ribs and other bones as far as i can tell right now

 

then as i was cleaning her, a medium buck walked by.  i used my new (got it friday the 18th) Colt 45 special combat govt.  i used my reloads.  230gr JHP rounds.  he was 30-40 yards away.  again, a double lung shot.  he walked about 12-15 paces and died.

 

i could not believe that while i was cleaning one another walked on by.

 

 

 

 

 

now for the fun part.  i have not found the 45 acp round yet.  it passes through and may have hit the flat part of his shoulder.  i found a very small exit hole in his outer fur.  the holes on the inside of the rib cage were not all that big.

 

the 5.7x28 round was a different story.  it passes through the body cavity and through the muscle of her shoulder.  it stopped just below the skin/fur.  the hole on both sides of the rib cage were 2-3 times bigger than the 45acp holes.  the 5.7 round holes were probably like 2-2.5 inches in diameter.  i shot a couple  of quick snaps and used a quarter for size.  the holes are 9 o'clock in one photo and 11 o'clock in another...between the ribs 

 

photos here: http://photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=1020723

 

i found three pieces of the SS197 round.  i found all three pieces in roughly the same spot.

 

 

 

 

 

a very interesting day.  i will get more photos after we get the skins off.  i will get better measurements and see if i can find the 45 round.

 

please see these photos for the measurements of the 3 pieces from the 5.7 round.  http://photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=1020723

 

eddie

 

Nice try FN marketing team!

 

lol

 

 

 

j/k

[Vlad G 345]

I dunno, I know people that work for FN and even they don't try that hard. 

[MicroMag 0]

...Looks around.... really? no one? Fine, I'll post it...

 

MAIN POINT OF SELLING BELGIAN FIVE SEVEN PISTOL IS EXTREME PRICE OF WEAPON AND CARTRIDGE.

BELGIAN FIVE SEVEN IS WEAPON OF MAN WHO WEARS EXPENSIVE ITALIAN FASCIST SUIT OF HAND SEWING, DRIVE HUGE EXPENSIVE NAZI MERCEDES OF A.M.G. SHOP, SAIL ON MASSIVE YACHT TO GREEK ISLANDS. I THINK YOU GET PICTURE. BELGIAN FIVE SEVEN IS WEAPON THAT SAYS IS NO SUCH THING AS CONCERN OF MONEY.

FOR MAN WITHOUT EXPENSIVE SUIT, BIG BLACK MERCEDES, AND MASSIVE YACHT, BELGIAN FIVE SEVEN IS FOR PRETENDING OF BE RICH LIKE BLACK GANGSTER OF AMERICAN CITY WITH GOLD CHAINS OF LOW QUALITY AND JEWELS OF COLORED GLASS. WHEN YOU EXPLAIN USE OF BELGIAN FIVE SEVEN PISTOL IS ONLY FOR SHOOT MAN WITH BULLET VEST WITH CARTRIDGE ILLEGAL TO CIVILIAN, THIS MAN HAS NUCLEAR RAGE. WHOLE IDENTITY OF THIS MAN IS SPENT IN PRETEND PISTOL SHOWS HE IS RICH. IS VERY AMUSE.

FOR REST OF WORLD THERE IS 9 MILLIMETERS OF LUGER WHICH IS SAME WOUND FOR COST LESS.

[High Exposure 5,662]

Ooooooooooooh..... Somebody is a shill for FN or really has their ego wrapped up in this crappy round... They came all the way to this forum, registered as a user, and posted 3 whole posts of "cut and paste" to tell us we are wrong and guys I know are liars.

 

5.7x28 has been around for a quarter of a century. If it was so great, why is it not in the holster of every SOF soldier and Cop out there?

 

I know, because it sucks worse than all the other defensive caliber handgun rounds do at stopping threats, that's why.

 

ETA- Micromag, that is some funny stuff! Well done

[mipafox 438]

 

I know a few guys that have shot people in the line of duty and they report terrible terminal effects. I have seen deer put down with them as well with similar results. Very underwhelming.

 

 

 

Deer and steer are put down reliably with .22 handguns on farms every single day. Were you putting them down while they were fleeing or something?

[High Exposure 5,662]

  

 

Deer and steer are put down reliably with .22 handguns on farms every single day. Were you putting them down while they were fleeing or something?

LOL. Yeah, we were doing a raid to get a baby fawn.

 

I think it was Washington Twp in Gloucester County that carried the FN 5.7 as a duty gun loaded with SS109 at the time I think - maybe 6 or 8 years ago. They get a lot of deers hit by motor vehicles that need to be put down, so they would use the carcass as an impromptu ballistics lab.

 

A head shot on the already hurt and immobile animal generally did the trick. Then a shot or two to different parts of the carcass. They found that the round had dismal penetration (just a few inches if I remember) and left a large but very shallow wound.

 

(The "Terminal" in Terminal ballistics refers to the effects of the bullet after it strikes something at the end/terminus of its flight path. In this case "Terminal" does not refer to the rounds "death power")