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Pistol Transfer from Relative

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Ok, I know the laws and saw the FAQ, but I'm not sure about this one.  My uncle wants to give me a pistol. I know I need a permit, but the issue is his residency. He has a home in both Florida and NJ. Since he has a NJ address, is that good enough to proceed as a private sale face to face without an FFL? He likely doesn't have an FID since he used to be a cop in NJ, retired many years ago, and moved down to FL a few years ago. I haven't gotten all the details from him since he just mentioned it in passing, but it's likely his duty revolver since he said it's a .357, and I'm sure he got it long before the FID requirement, plus he was a cop anyway and may not have needed the FID at that time.

 

Any advice on how to handle it?

 

I'm guessing I would just get a permit and fill it out as a normal face to face transaction (which I've never done for handguns, so I don't even know how to fill out the permit), but what would I put in Seller's ID Card #? Obviously I can't put a FL DL. Or does his primary residence, and thus his DL, have to be NJ for it to qualify?

 

He said he has no idea what all the crazy gun laws are in NJ, and when I told him I'd need a permit he said "Really? Even for family?".  If it's needed, just wait until I tell him that he has to bring it to a NJ dealer to do the transfer.

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Does he have a NJ FID card and NJ Driver License to go with that address? If so, you can do a face to face, If no, he needs to get it to an FFL and you will bring your permit to FFL to complete transfer and pickup. Put simply, you can only do a face-to face with a NJ resident. Out of state needs an FFL.

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If you to do what savageshooter says you can.

 

However, if he really is a dual resident he can give you the gun on your pistol permit when he is residing in NJ. I know a few retired people who maintain a home in NJ for May to September and spend the rest of the year at their other residence in FL, AZ, GA, SC, NC, or several other states. If they legally acquired a firearm in another state they can bring it to their other home in NJ and are subject to all transportation and transfer laws in NJ. They could legally transfer any firearm they own to a NJ resident as long as they do it when living in NJ. I have bought guns from such people who use their NJ address on the COE or PPP.

 

I know a popular answer is to put the DL number in the block for FID number if the seller does not have a FID. I have no idea who came up with that originally. It asks for FID, not FID or DL. When I have bought guns from a NJ resident without a FID, with or without dual residency, they always put "none". Neither they or I have had any repercussions for doing so.

 

There is nothing illegal about transferring the gun to you on a PPP as long as your uncle lists his NJ address on the PPP and writes none in for FID number.

 

You can go to a dealer in NJ and pay for NICS and a transfer fee but not needed IMO.

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call the NJ State Police Firearms Unit and see what they say, better safe then sorry.

The state police are the last folks I would call. If your uncle is a Jersey resident, it is OK. Period. If he files taxes or has a driver's license, you are good.

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Thanks for the replies so far. I doubt he has a NJ DL or files NJ taxes. He just has a summer home, so he has a NJ address.

 

I was thinking along the lines of what GRIZ said, but just wanted to see if that was acceptable. If not I'll have to have him bring it to an FFL when he's ready and do it there. Seems like quite a waste of time and money.  I mean, if he has a NJ address, it should be fine. It's not a requirement to have an FID to sell a firearm or even own one, just to buy. Technically I'd think a DL isn't even required.

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Griz is right on the money with this one.......

 

As long as your Uncle has a house/apartment/etc. that he actually resides in, in NJ, he is a resident of NJ while he is staying there according to ATF regulations, and can sell it to you FTF while he is staying in NJ. As Griz said put none in the sellers FID number spot.

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The dual residence verbage in CFR pertains to purchase of a weapon from a FFL. Even under the the CFR and Federal Law, ownership of property in more than one jurisdiction does not confer legal residence, as that term is used in the CFR. The facts as you have disclosed them, are insufficient to answer your inquiry because of non disclosure of some important facts. It may be permissible, but that determination cannot be made on the facts you have disclosed so far. Just having a NJ address because he has a summer home or receives mail here is not enough, is the title to the home in his name and is he paying property taxes on it? Does he have a written lease on the home and for how many months, and if he does, how many months a year does he reside in the leased property? If you do not want to call the State Police, and want to rely on legal advice you have received from non lawyers, do the transfer through an FFL and do not take the chance.

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The dual residence verbage in CFR pertains to purchase of a weapon from a FFL. Even under the the CFR and Federal Law, ownership of property in more than one jurisdiction does not confer legal residence, as that term is used in the CFR. The facts as you have disclosed them, are insufficient to answer your inquiry because of non disclosure of some important facts. It may be permissible, but that determination cannot be made on the facts you have disclosed so far. Just having a NJ address because he has a summer home or receives mail here is not enough, is the title to the home in his name and is he paying property taxes on it? Does he have a written lease on the home and for how many months, and if he does, how many months a year does he reside in the leased property? If you do not want to call the State Police, and want to rely on legal advice you have received from non lawyers, do the transfer through an FFL and do not take the chance.

 

To my knowledge, he purchased a Condo, so his name would be on the deed and he would be paying taxes. It is not just a summer rental/lease. Unsure how much of the year he would spend here vs FL.  Could be around 50/50 since they're retired anyway.

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According to 27 CFR 478.11 (http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2013-title27-vol3/xml/CFR-2013-title27-vol3-sec478-11.xml)

 

 

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located, as stated in 18 U.S.C. 921(b). The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

 

Example 1.A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

 

Example 2.A maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

 

Example 3.A, an alien, travels to the United States on a three-week vacation to State X. A does not have a state of residence in State X because A does not have the intention of making a home in State X while on vacation. This is true regardless of the length of the vacation.

 

Example 4.A, an alien, travels to the United States to work for three years in State X. A rents a home in State X, moves his personal possessions into the home, and his family resides with him in the home. A intends to reside in State X during the 3-year period of his employment. A is a resident of State X.

 

Example 2 sounds like my Uncle's situation, which would mean to me that he would be considered a resident of NJ while staying here.

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Does it really matter? Nobody is going to check into where the seller lives.

 

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

THIS ^^^^^^

 

The NJSP are more concerned that the buyer is eligible to acquire the hand gun and that it is properly registered when acquired. I have purchased handguns that came from an estate where the seller (inheritor) wrote "the estate of xxxxxx" in the spot for the seller on the permit. That person was deceased, and the NJSP was OK with it.

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THIS ^^^^^^

 

The NJSP are more concerned that the buyer is eligible to acquire the hand gun and that it is properly registered when acquired. I have purchased handguns that came from an estate where the seller (inheritor) wrote "the estate of xxxxxx" in the spot for the seller on the permit. That person was deceased, and the NJSP was OK with it.

As long as your uncle puts his NJ address in the sellers section no one will care. By virtue of using a PPP, you will be putting the gun in their system when NJSP gets their copy.

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