Article: Rise of the Warrior Cop

[bhunted 887]

Looks clearly have to do with it. Perception is reality. Do you really think it matters to someone who sees a cop in camouflage fatigues and a drop holster why they are dressed like that? Good reason, okay reason, bad reason? Irrelevant. They look more like a soldier going into battle then the friendly neighborhood officer. Whether it is a good thing or not, the reality is there is a militarization of police in many aspects. Denying that is ignorant.

Is it perception? Wouldn't that be the same thing as judging a book by it's cover? Is it similar to racial profiling? Does everyone that wears a hoodie a bad guy?

 

I dunno, but when I wore BDUs, they were functional and comfortable.

 

Days of the past are just that. We don't live in a simple Barney Fife world any more. Being well prepared in any aspect for anyone is key.

 

When I see a cop decked out, what he wears does not affect my perception. His attitude and persona do.

[usnmars 136]

Yesterday I was downtown and got lost.  I parked in an area along Main St. and figured I would walk around to find the store I was looking for.  I saw a police officer and went to ask him if he knew of the place I was looking for.  As I approached, head on so I know he saw me from a distance and could figure if I was a threat or not, I asked politely "excuse me sir" as I closed the distance between us.  Immediately as soon as I got somewhat near, he unsnapped his holster and put his hand on his gun.  The entire time I was talking to him he had his holster unsnapped and his hand on his weapon.  Now I was dressed business casual with khaki pants and a button down shirt, not a wife beater and cutoff jeans.  This kinda irked me, the entire time we were conversing he was at the ready.  Really WTF, was that nessecary.  Was someone asking for directions in a populated and fairly busy downtown area, that appeared to be a cleancut individual, that held a conversation the whole time resectfully using the words "yes sir" frequently considered a threat.  No

[Combat Auto 174]

Yesterday I was downtown and got lost.  I parked in an area along Main St. and figured I would walk around to find the store I was looking for.  I saw a police officer and went to ask him if he knew of the place I was looking for.  As I approached, head on so I know he saw me from a distance and could figure if I was a threat or not, I asked politely "excuse me sir" as I closed the distance between us.  Immediately as soon as I got somewhat near, he unsnapped his holster and put his hand on his gun.  The entire time I was talking to him he had his holster unsnapped and his hand on his weapon.  Now I was dressed business casual with khaki pants and a button down shirt, not a wife beater and cutoff jeans.  This kinda irked me, the entire time we were conversing he was at the ready.  Really WTF, was that nessecary.  Was someone asking for directions in a populated and fairly busy downtown area, that appeared to be a cleancut individual, that held a conversation the whole time resectfully using the words "yes sir" frequently considered a threat.  No

That is pretty sad what this has come to...Too many swat TV shows glorifying aggressiveness...I watch the real-life "Cops" shows often where they video cops in their daily choors...Too often, IMHO, I see them over aggressive, sometimes pointing their guns, at these skinning pot smoking teanagers. It is pathetic. Sometimes prostitutes and their johns too....I am totally aginst pot smoking, but if this is all these cops have to do is bust teenagers for nickle and dime bags with several either overwight, or muscle-bound cops often in swat gear, something is wrong with this picture...I'd have more respect if they were going after the major drug dealers, etc. That would be a much better use of resources IMHO, and has a higher chance of making a difference.

 

I am starting to think they should raise the bar much higher for hiring cops...At least a bacholors degree (I understand that some towns do this), and at least 30 years of age...No guarenteed of course, but education and age (generally) lead to increased wisdom.

 

Cheeze, i wouldn't want anyone putting their hand on their gun because I am asking them for directions!

[RubberBullets 65]

Dupe from edit

 

[RubberBullets 65]

 

Not to get too far into it, but the over aggressiveness/suspicion of EVERYONE is now drilled into LEOs heads during training both initial and recurring. You show a few dash cam videos of the cops that let their guard down and lost their lives because of it and it drives home a point that every call could mean your life.

 

They do it in the fire service and im sure its no different in the police world. Dont get complacent, safety first, protect yourself first and others second as not to become a liability. Its hard to make an argument for the contrary when the goal is based on personal safety.

 

 

Im not defending either side... but this is a dynamic change in our society just as we have seen in other walks of life over the last 30 years. It may not be for the best, but I believe its just following the same sad path that were have been on for a long time.

 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[Soju 153]

Is it perception? Wouldn't that be the same thing as judging a book by it's cover? Is it similar to racial profiling? Does everyone that wears a hoodie a bad guy?

 

I dunno, but when I wore BDUs, they were functional and comfortable.

 

Days of the past are just that. We don't live in a simple Barney Fife world any more. Being well prepared in any aspect for anyone is key.

 

When I see a cop decked out, what he wears does not affect my perception. His attitude and persona do.

 

Yes, it is the same thing as judging a book by it's cover. Perceptions are just that, perceptions, that may or may not be true. Truth rarely matters when it comes to government, politics, and authority. 

 

But self-perception is just as relevant. Lots of jokes get made about mall ninjas at the range and whatnot. Decked out in gear, thinking they are badass. Based off of some recent events of some police officers going Rambo on innocent civilians, it is apparent they often think the same. (See LA police lighting up a truck with 2 innocent women, Boston, etc). You have LEO's on this forum, on the news, and on film making statements that reflect an attitude of omnipotent control and authority by force. That only gets substantiated when the gear they have and uniforms they wear make them appear to be a storm trooper. 

 

This isn't just my view. It is the view of many and there have been psychological studies on this, and on police-citizen interaction.

 

Yesterday I was downtown and got lost.  I parked in an area along Main St. and figured I would walk around to find the store I was looking for.  I saw a police officer and went to ask him if he knew of the place I was looking for.  As I approached, head on so I know he saw me from a distance and could figure if I was a threat or not, I asked politely "excuse me sir" as I closed the distance between us.  Immediately as soon as I got somewhat near, he unsnapped his holster and put his hand on his gun.  The entire time I was talking to him he had his holster unsnapped and his hand on his weapon.  Now I was dressed business casual with khaki pants and a button down shirt, not a wife beater and cutoff jeans.  This kinda irked me, the entire time we were conversing he was at the ready.  Really WTF, was that nessecary.  Was someone asking for directions in a populated and fairly busy downtown area, that appeared to be a cleancut individual, that held a conversation the whole time resectfully using the words "yes sir" frequently considered a threat.  No

I posted before I read this. This is exactly what I am talking about. Police treat everyone as if they are a criminal. This is a systemic issue, as RubberBullets mentioned. Police are taught to protect themselves first at all costs. The rights and safety of others always comes second, even when dealing with just one, clearly non-threating individual as your story shows. I bet that was pretty intimidating? Now imagine you are a young impressionable female, and that cop is dressed in fatigues and tactical gear. Is she going to ask him for directions? How is he perceived? I bet not like a peace officer..

[blksheep 466]

 

Yes, it is the same thing as judging a book by it's cover. Perceptions are just that, perceptions, that may or may not be true. Truth rarely matters when it comes to government, politics, and authority.

 

But self-perception is just as relevant. Lots of jokes get made about mall ninjas at the range and whatnot. Decked out in gear, thinking they are badass. Based off of some recent events of some police officers going Rambo on innocent civilians, it is apparent they often think the same. (See LA police lighting up a truck with 2 innocent women, Boston, etc). You have LEO's on this forum, on the news, and on film making statements that reflect an attitude of omnipotent control and authority by force. That only gets substantiated when the gear they have and uniforms they wear make them appear to be a storm trooper.

 

This isn't just my view. It is the view of many and there have been psychological studies on this, and on police-citizen interaction.

 

 

I posted before I read this. This is exactly what I am talking about. Police treat everyone as if they are a criminal. This is a systemic issue, as RubberBullets mentioned. Police are taught to protect themselves first at all costs. The rights and safety of others always comes second, even when dealing with just one, clearly non-threating individual as your story shows. I bet that was pretty intimidating? Now imagine you are a young impressionable female, and that cop is dressed in fatigues and tactical gear. Is she going to ask him for directions? How is he perceived? I bet not like a peace officer..

Get GPS and you won't have to rely on the government to help you in a time of distress.

[Soju 153]

Get GPS and you won't have to rely on the government to help you in a time of distress.

 

I don't, but others people do. Implying that people shouldn't look towards peace officers for help isn't helping the perception mentioned...

[RUTGERS95 890]

I don't have a problem with looking to protect themselves first honestly.  The rest of the post, I absolutely have a problem with and is indicative of a problem

 

also, perception is reality for many many people.  I'm amazed people still debate this.

[blksheep 466]

There are crap bags in all professions. That's what it comes down to. I try and be polite and respectful in any encounter I have. I don't take things personally and judge each situation differently.

[RubberBullets 65]

There are crap bags in all professions.

 

 

Man is this true.

 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[rightisright 3]

I blame the utterly failed War on Drugs for the start of the militarization of the police (And I'm not even one of those silly weed smoking libertarians!  Well, I am a libertarian who takes blood pressure meds ).  9/11 doubled down and the house paid dearly. And come on, if you can't see there is a rapidly growing trend of overuse of SWAT and militarization of general departments of the popo, you've either been indoctrinated or are blind.  

 

Police routinely refer to us as "civilians".  Um, newsflash Barney Fife:  The police are friggin civilians, too.  But many don't believe so.  In fact, one illustrious poster here told me so a few months ago.  He saw himself as different than the average citizen.  Really?  Perchance we should take a step back and see what Sir Robert Peel (aka The Father of Modern Policing) had to say about that, "The police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence."  My, my... how far we have drifted from that nifty concept.  

 

I grew up being taught to respect and trust police.  After having my vehicle tossed several times (with no arrests) for the simple crime of driving with a mullet (Sue me... it was the freakin 80's and I wanted to look like that dude from White Snake and bang Tawney Kitaen look-alikes) in my late teens.  One time was for turning on my dome light.  "I thought you were rolling a joint."   Really?  While driving down a 4 lane highway?  I have some mad chops... but rolling a doob whilst driving at 60 MPH ain't in the repertoire.  Maybe I need higher aspirations...

 

Another time was for "highly accelerating" away from a Ford Interceptor cruiser.... in a blazingly fast 4 cylinder Mazda pickup filled with 1000# of small concrete statues (I was working for a delivery service).  Complete bed was emptied on the Parkway (3 of the statues were broken) and the cab was tossed.  When nothing naughty was found, I was issued a speeding citation.  

 

 

I could go on and on and on....

 

Oh, here's a more recent one.  Remember that surprise October snow storm a few years ago?  Well, I happened to be traveling on RT. 78 just as it started in an 08 Grand Cherokee w. all-wheel drive at the blistering speed of 50 MPH.  But I made the mistake of passing an NJSP cruiser that was having trouble doing 45 in the fast lane.  So my criminal-ass was pulled and written up for doing 75 MPH in a 65.  No radar.   He "tailed me", donchaknow.

 

So, yeah... don't blame me if I don't trust the police.  A whole lot of anecdotes add up to data.  

 

 

Ok..  Girlfriend is calling me.  She's waiting for  the best 30 seconds of her life.... again.  

[Stonecoldchavez 92]

I not sure if this article rises to the need of warrior cop.....but to me it indicates an overblown reaction.

 

http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/burlington_county_times_news/two--year-olds-on-atvs-charged-with-eluding-police/article_f8ff9377-8af4-55a1-9855-7517f4ed5030.html

 

This is an article last week about a police force near where I live. To me the cops in this situation totally blew it. It was a 'teachable moment' for these two kids and now their lives will be ruined. Over riding an ATV. 25 years ago this never would have happened. They should have been talked to and given a warning. I do not know these kids, but I know this police force and I understand why these kids took off. This PD has a reputation for bad things (former chief was "asked" to resign) and giving out the most tickets in Burlington County. This is a rural police force and town. Not Camden, Trenton, or Newark. BTW, Trenton has a "no chasing ATV's" policy.

[Holeshot 3]

I don't know guys but I am having a hard time with all the negative posts in this thread.

 

I really don't like typing too much but I too could post dozens of stories of personal interactions with various LEO, Good and Bad.

If anyone gives a s**t  , I would be happy to sit down over a cold one and share them with you sometime.

 

 

First off this is the NJGF and I believe it was created to allow fellow NJ firearm enthusiasts a place online to interact and talk about and share their knowledge of firearms.   What a great idea!

 

We have a group of folks on here from a vast background of occupations and education but I believe they all share in the love of firearms.

 

I think that we can all agree that there are people who lack integrity in all walks of life no matter what their job is.

 

Regardless of your occupation, you are either a person of integrity or you are not.

 

Vlad and Highexposure often share their knowledge on this forum to not only long time members but also to a lot of new ones as well.

 

I am not asking anyone to blindly agree or give in to another's statements, however as we are all supposed to be firearms enthusiasts maybe we can all agree to disagree and move back towards finding some common ground.

 

 

"If you come at me with your fists doubled, I think I can promise you mine will double as fast as yours. 

 

But if you come to me and say 'Let us sit down and take counsel together'....we will presently find that we are not so far apart after all." - Woodrow Wilson

[W2MC 1,699]

And in Wisconsin...9 DNR agents and 4 deputy sheriffs to serve a warrant...

 

for a baby fawn.

 

 

http://www.wisn.com/news/armed-agents-raid-animal-shelter-for-baby-deer/-/9373668/21272108/-/wvh1n7z/-/index.html

[jermz1987 243]

I don't know guys but I am having a hard time with all the negative posts in this thread.

 

I really don't like typing too much but I too could post dozens of stories of personal interactions with various LEO, Good and Bad.

If anyone gives a s**t  , I would be happy to sit down over a cold one and share them with you sometime.

 

 

First off this is the NJGF and I believe it was created to allow fellow NJ firearm enthusiasts a place online to interact and talk about and share their knowledge of firearms.   What a great idea!

 

We have a group of folks on here from a vast background of occupations and education but I believe they all share in the love of firearms.

 

I think that we can all agree that there are people who lack integrity in all walks of life no matter what their job is.

 

Regardless of your occupation, you are either a person of integrity or you are not.

 

Vlad and Highexposure often share their knowledge on this forum to not only long time members but also to a lot of new ones as well.

 

I am not asking anyone to blindly agree or give in to another's statements, however as we are all supposed to be firearms enthusiasts maybe we can all agree to disagree and move back towards finding some common ground.

 

 

"If you come at me with your fists doubled, I think I can promise you mine will double as fast as yours. 

 

But if you come to me and say 'Let us sit down and take counsel together'....we will presently find that we are not so far apart after all." - Woodrow Wilson

 

 

I agree. I have been a member of this forum for a while now and I have never seen so much tension between its members. There are always arguments going on. Its really getting old, But I suppose If I don't like it I can leave like half the original members have.

[Combat Auto 174]

And in Wisconsin...9 DNR agents and 4 deputy sheriffs to serve a warrant...

 

for a baby fawn.

 

 

http://www.wisn.com/news/armed-agents-raid-animal-shelter-for-baby-deer/-/9373668/21272108/-/wvh1n7z/-/index.html

Funny and sad at the same time thx for posting.

[Combat Auto 174]

I don't know guys but I am having a hard time with all the negative posts in this thread.

 

I really don't like typing too much but I too could post dozens of stories of personal interactions with various LEO, Good and Bad.

If anyone gives a s**t  , I would be happy to sit down over a cold one and share them with you sometime.

 

 

First off this is the NJGF and I believe it was created to allow fellow NJ firearm enthusiasts a place online to interact and talk about and share their knowledge of firearms.   What a great idea!

 

We have a group of folks on here from a vast background of occupations and education but I believe they all share in the love of firearms.

 

I think that we can all agree that there are people who lack integrity in all walks of life no matter what their job is.

 

Regardless of your occupation, you are either a person of integrity or you are not.

 

Vlad and Highexposure often share their knowledge on this forum to not only long time members but also to a lot of new ones as well.

 

I am not asking anyone to blindly agree or give in to another's statements, however as we are all supposed to be firearms enthusiasts maybe we can all agree to disagree and move back towards finding some common ground.

 

 

"If you come at me with your fists doubled, I think I can promise you mine will double as fast as yours. 

 

But if you come to me and say 'Let us sit down and take counsel together'....we will presently find that we are not so far apart after all." - Woodrow Wilson

Not sure I would agree with your total premise. I believe good heated debate about a critical issue like this is very good; as long as it is done in a respectful maner, IMHO.

 

The main issue here is how the PD as a government monopoly and beurocracy has these gross (meaning sweeping broad, not as in wanting to throw-up :-)) that shouldn't be applied without careful thought and restraint. See the Baby Fawn example above - a kind of funny one, but there are many other serious examples of civilians being harmed and killed because of bad PD proceesses (and bad judgement by individual cops). With such monopolistic powers of PD and literally life and death decisions they make from time to time, we have to constantly examine debate, modify their methods and procedures...This is not a reflection of any Cop on the NJGF.

 

Cheeze, as a gun owner and knowing the fights that are on-going to keep our rights, don't you realize that one of the demensions of this fight is the balance of power btwn gov't and civilians? Who do you think are the agents of the govt who will inforce Gov't power? You got it, the PD!...This is reason enough to debate it here.

[Combat Auto 174]

Not sure I would agree with your total premise. I believe good heated debate about a critical issue like this is very good; as long as it is done in a respectful maner, IMHO.

 

The main issue here is how the PD as a government monopoly and beurocracy has these gross (meaning sweeping broad, not as in wanting to throw-up :-)) that shouldn't be applied without careful thought and restraint. See the Baby Fawn example above - a kind of funny one, but there are many other serious examples of civilians being harmed and killed because of bad PD proceesses (and bad judgement by individual cops). With such monopolistic powers of PD and literally life and death decisions they make from time to time, we have to constantly examine debate, modify their methods and procedures...This is not a reflection of any Cop on the NJGF.

 

Cheeze, as a gun owner and knowing the fights that are on-going to keep our rights, don't you realize that one of the demensions of this fight is the balance of power btwn gov't and civilians? Who do you think are the agents of the govt who will inforce Gov't power? You got it, the PD!...This is reason enough to debate it here.

please insert "processes" after the smile face above. My bad!

[diamondd817 826]

I feel the police have switched from public servants to government servants. The new slogan should be "To Protect and Serve the Interest of the Government".

[diamondd817 826]

And in Wisconsin...9 DNR agents and 4 deputy sheriffs to serve a warrant...

 

for a baby fawn.

 

 

http://www.wisn.com/news/armed-agents-raid-animal-shelter-for-baby-deer/-/9373668/21272108/-/wvh1n7z/-/index.html

Really? This is a joke, right? Is this a satire? Nobody agrees that this is excessive and a waste of resources and taxpayer money? Maybe some SOP's need to be re-evaluated.

 

Quote: "nobody needs 10 bullets to kill a deeeaaar" - Gov Cuomo, NY Safe Act 2013

 

 

-

[pjd832 146]

That deer story is really Effed up..... The dnr people killed the deer.. Wtf?! ....that's some messed up stuff ...it'd be like dyfs coming in and grabbing a young child that was being well cared for and not being mistreated and euthanized them put them in a body bag and threw them over their shoulders and marched off like good little storm troopers .......and people wonder why there is this anti govt/agents of gvt sentiment ?....

[High Exposure 5,661]

I agree 110% that the fawn story is absolutely rediculous and a waste of resources. It appears to be a completely inappropriate use of authority.

 

But you aren't really comparing the euthanizing of a fawn with the killing of a child are you?

[RUTGERS95 890]

And in Wisconsin...9 DNR agents and 4 deputy sheriffs to serve a warrant...

 

for a baby fawn.

 

 

http://www.wisn.com/news/armed-agents-raid-animal-shelter-for-baby-deer/-/9373668/21272108/-/wvh1n7z/-/index.html

that is insane, a surreal story

[RUTGERS95 890]

Not sure I would agree with your total premise. I believe good heated debate about a critical issue like this is very good; as long as it is done in a respectful maner, IMHO.

 

The main issue here is how the PD as a government monopoly and beurocracy has these gross (meaning sweeping broad, not as in wanting to throw-up :-)) that shouldn't be applied without careful thought and restraint. See the Baby Fawn example above - a kind of funny one, but there are many other serious examples of civilians being harmed and killed because of bad PD proceesses (and bad judgement by individual cops). With such monopolistic powers of PD and literally life and death decisions they make from time to time, we have to constantly examine debate, modify their methods and procedures...This is not a reflection of any Cop on the NJGF.

 

Cheeze, as a gun owner and knowing the fights that are on-going to keep our rights, don't you realize that one of the demensions of this fight is the balance of power btwn gov't and civilians? Who do you think are the agents of the govt who will inforce Gov't power? You got it, the PD!...This is reason enough to debate it here.

agree 100%

[Combat Auto 174]

I feel the police have switched from public servants to government servants. The new slogan should be "To Protect and Serve the Interest of the Government".

Well put and "pithy" (if that is how it is spelled ;-)).

[Underdog 1,593]

I just saw where cops out in California were following a tip and knocked on someone's door at night.  No one answered, so they proceeded to climb through a window into the house and were confronted by two dogs, which they shot.  I don't know the outcome of this, but it seems like it is a mistake on the part of the officers.  I know that they don't need a warrant if they are in hot pursuit, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.  And, yes, something seems off on this story.

 

Enter, the warrior enforcement officer... 

 

Horrific Allegation: Couple Says Cops Climbed Through Window Without Warrant and Shot Their Dogs

[Hooligan 0]

There are bad apples everywhere, but it's especially pronounced in a profession that's constantly in the public eye, is supposed to be there to help us in our worst hour, and has power over others.  It sucks for the good cops, but the bad element is really going to stick out.  A department can help a thousand old ladies cross the street, but the one gung-ho guy on the force tazes someone questionably and that's the rep the dept will have to overcome.

 

I feel for the cops on the board because they're stuck in a sticky situation:  They condemn the same behavior the rest of us do, but still have every right to defend their profession as a whole.  I hope everyone can continue to see both sides and be civil. 

 

My opinion:  I know you can't have a department of Andy Griffiths, but you also can't have a department full of guys that relish putting on their gear and playing soldier, who look for every excuse to do so.  I'd like to see more community-oriented policing, but I'm aware that local govt doesn't like funding their PDs.  I'm not sure what the solution is.

[Combat Auto 174]

I just saw where cops out in California were following a tip and knocked on someone's door at night.  No one answered, so they proceeded to climb through a window into the house and were confronted by two dogs, which they shot.  I don't know the outcome of this, but it seems like it is a mistake on the part of the officers.  I know that they don't need a warrant if they are in hot pursuit, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.  And, yes, something seems off on this story.

 

Enter, the warrior enforcement officer... 

 

Horrific Allegation: Couple Says Cops Climbed Through Window Without Warrant and Shot Their Dogs

If this story is true (IF) the two cops should be locked up for a long time...Of course, if it is true, that would never happen, at most they would get a slap on the wrist. Society too often has a way to excuse Cops-Gone-Wild....If it is true, then it supports many of the notions discussed above.

[GRIZ 3,369]

If this story is true (IF) the two cops should be locked up for a long time...Of course, if it is true, that would never happen, at most they would get a slap on the wrist. Society too often has a way to excuse Cops-Gone-Wild....If it is true, then it supports many of the notions discussed above.

Based on the fact the police found evidence of an unlawful entry what would you have done?