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Questions on: Inheriting a rifle, FID, "Evil Features" on bolt action

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I posted the below on another forum, but I haven't got much, in the way of anything helpful, so I thought I would try here:

 

1.) Ok, so my grandfather recently passed away. He had a small collection of handguns and a couple rifles. He had owned them for many, many years, and none of them were registered or otherwise documented, nor did he have any permits/FID, as they were all acquired long before any of that was needed. So, "officially" they don't exist. All but one bolt-action rifle has already left the state, with another relative.

 

The one I plan to keep is a 1944 Lee Enfield bolt action rifle. I do NOT have an FID. But my understanding is that inheriting a firearm is an exception to the need for an FID, and therefor legal for me to take possession w/o one, according to "N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.13 Firearms passing to heirs or legatees" As I don't feel I would be disqualified under N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.5 and 1.6., it would seem that, in theory, I should have no problem. Does anyone hear, who has an educated, qualified opinion on this have any thoughts or objections to my understanding of this?

 

Also, assuming that the law does in fact say I can obtain/keep this rifle w/o an FID, does anyone foresee other difficulties for me later, by not having an FID? By this I mean, what kind of paperwork DO I need, if I am transporting this rifle to/from a range/gunsmith,etc...? Should I get a letter from my grandfathers estate, giving me the rifle? What about buying ammo? I know this rifle was originally built in .303 British (It is a Longbranch No4 MK 1*) My grandfather always called it a .22, but it does not appear to have been re-chambered to my unskilled eye. He obtained it from his brother, a long, long time ago. I don't think he ever fired it, in the 30+ years I have been alive, and I don't think my grandfather really knew too much about it, so it very well could be the original .303. As .303 is NOT used in handguns, I don't see any reason to have legal difficulty in buying ammo. Am I wrong? In any case, I am kind of leaning towards having it re-chambered in .308 / 7.62x51 NATO anyway, for cheaper/more available ammo.

 

2.) While I have a great respect for items of historical significance, this rifle has already had the barrel and furniture chopped. (yes, I measured it and it is well above legal minimum length) Honestly, it was done somewhat half-assed, many years ago; most likely by my grandfather's brother, sometime between WW2 and, say, '50s/'60s, when these rifles were dirt cheap and plentiful. I don't think the "sporterizing" was ever finished, as the barrel was cut with a hacksaw, and the front sights were never replaced. The mag well was also "plugged" , making it a single shot.

The only thing, other then legal issues, that might hold me back from doing it the way I want is the fact that the action is in such pristine condition, seeing as it has been stored reasonably well, and hasn't been fired in 30+ years. I COULD restore it with a replacement barrel, correct original magazine (about $80/each), and replacement unmodified front furniture from a "parts" gun. However, there would be so many mis-matched serial numbered pieces, that the restoration would be cosmetic only. A true collector would never consider it original without the matching mag and barrel. Even the front sight/bayonet lugs would have originally had the guns serial number on them, and those are long gone.

 

My intention would be to go in a more "tactical" direction, with black poly furniture, re-chamber to .308, possible pistol grip, picatinny rails, re-install a magazine, etc.. It would be neat to have a 1000yd sniper rifle, which these guns are known to be capable of. My question(s) are: Since it is a bolt-action, are there still restrictions on the so-called "evil features" which make a semi-auto into a banned "assault rifle", or does the bolt-action mean pretty much anything else is now fair game? (pistol grip, threaded barrel, folding stock,etc...) What about magazine capacity? Again, does the fact that it is A.) a rifle, and not a hangun, and B.) Bolt-action, NOT semi-auto get me a "free pass" on that? What would the magazine capacity be limited to, in NJ? I don't intend to hunt with it, but is there a different limit, if taken into the woods for hunting, vs just general limits in the state (ie, target shooting)?

 

3.) If I did decide to get an FID, I foresee a problem, regarding the references. I don't have any. I simply don't have any close personal friends. I know people, but nobody I'd really want to get involved in this. Last time I checked, the constitution doesn't say that the 2nd amendment doesn't apply to "loners", or that close personal friends are a pre-requisite to exercising your 2nd amendment rights. There is nothing stopping them from doing a criminal/mental health background check. If I pass that, and I should, then I see no reason why they should be able to deny me my constitutional right to firearms, simply because I choose not to socialize to a degree acceptable to "them" I also don't really want my temp agency, NYC based employer getting any letters/calls from the PD about me buying guns. Could I just put "unemployed" on the form? As I said, it is only temp work, as needed. So, when they have no work for me, I'm not "employed". I can go weeks with no work from them, sometimes longer.

 

So, has anybody been able to get an FID, without the personal references; maybe by putting "none" or "not available" on the form? Any advice on this? What if I DID use family members, was upfront about it, and said, these are the people who know me. Its all I have; talk to them or no one.

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A FID card is not required to receive a firearm that has been passed down to an heir

BUT if the receiver is not qualified then he/she has 180 days to sell the firearm or transfer

it out of their possession - (meaning you need an FID card to keep it long term).

 

When you say the "Barrel & furniture chopped" - the gun still need to meet the minimum 

overall length (26") & minimum barrel length (16") or it becomes an SBR which is an NFA

item and requires special registration which NJ will not honor so don't bother.

 

As for the evil features - Almost all of the "Evil Features' apply to a Semi-Auto rifle that accept

a Detachable Magazine; not a Bolt-Action rifle.

When I say 'Almost" - you still cannot have a detachable mag over rd in ANY rifle in NJ

so don't try that either.

 

lastly - concerning the references, if you can't come up with two people to vouch for you than 

I don't think you are going to get an FID card, sorry as that seems it is way of the world these days.......

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A FID card is not required to receive a firearm that has been passed down to an heir

BUT if the receiver is not qualified then he/she has 180 days to sell the firearm or transfer

it out of their possession - (meaning you need an FID card to keep it long term).

 

When you say the "Barrel & furniture chopped" - the gun still need to meet the minimum 

overall length (26") & minimum barrel length (16") or it becomes an SBR which is an NFA

item and requires special registration which NJ will not honor so don't bother.

 

As for the evil features - Almost all of the "Evil Features' apply to a Semi-Auto rifle that accept

a Detachable Magazine; not a Bolt-Action rifle.

When I say 'Almost" - you still cannot have a detachable mag over rd in ANY rifle in NJ

so don't try that either.

 

lastly - concerning the references, if you can't come up with two people to vouch for you than 

I don't think you are going to get an FID card, sorry as that seems it is way of the world these days.......

In regards to the length, as I stated in the post, I measured it, and it is WELL over the legal minimum, for both barrel length, and OAL. So, no worries there.

 

As for the FID issue, I think you're mis-reading the statute:

 

N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.13 Firearms passing to heirs or legatees
 (a) Notwithstanding the provisions of this subchapter concerning the transfer, receipt or
acquisition of a firearm, a permit to purchase a handgun or a firearms purchaser identification card
shall not be required for the passing of a firearm upon the death of an owner thereof to their heir or
legatee, whether the same be by testamentary bequest or by the laws of intestacy. A person so
acquiring ownership may retain the firearm if he or she meets the requirements of N.J.A.C. 13:54-
1.5 and 1.6.
 (b) If an heir or legatee is not qualified to acquire a firearm, he or she may retain ownership of
the firearm for the purpose of sale for a period of 180 days, which period may be extended by the
chief of police or the Superintendent. During such period the firearm must be placed in the custody
of the chief of police or Superintendent.
 © In the case of assault firearms or machine guns disposition shall be in accordance with
N.J.A.C. 13:54-5.
 
"If he/she meets the requirements of NJAC 13:54-1.5 and 1.6  - Ok, so what are those?
 
N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.5 Prerequisites for a permit to purchase handgun or a firearms purchaser
identification card
 (a) A permit to purchase a handgun, or a firearm purchaser identification card, shall not be issued
to any person:
1. To any person who has been convicted of any crime, or a disorderly persons offense
involving an act of domestic violence as defined in section 3 of P.L. 1991, c. 261 (N.J.S.A. 2C:25-
19), whether or not armed with or possessing a weapon at the time of such offense;
2. To any drug dependent person as defined in section 2 of P.L. 1970, c. 226 (N.J.S.A. 24:21-
2), to any person who is confined for a mental disorder to a hospital, mental institution or
sanitarium, or to any person who is presently a habitual drunkard;
3. To any person who suffers from a physical defect or disease which would make it unsafe
for him or her to handle firearms, to any person who has ever been confined for a mental disorder,
or to any alcoholic unless any of the foregoing persons produces a certificate of a medical doctor
or psychiatrist licensed in New Jersey, or other satisfactory proof, that he or she is no longer
suffering from that particular disability in such a manner that would interfere with or handicap him
or her in the handling of firearms; to any person who knowingly falsifies any information on the
application form for a handgun purchase permit or firearms purchaser identification card;
4. To any person under the age of 18 years for a firearms purchaser identification card and
to any person under the age of 21 years for a permit to purchase a handgun;
5. To any person where the issuance would not be in the interest of the public health, safety
or welfare;
6. To any person who is subject to a restraining order issued pursuant to the Prevention of
Domestic Violence Act of 1991, P.L. 1991, c. 261 (N.J.S.A. 2C:25-17et seq.) prohibiting the person
from possessing any firearm;
7. To any person who as a juvenile was an adjudicated delinquent for an offense which, if
committed by an adult, would constitute a crime and the offense involved the unlawful use or
possession of a weapon, explosive or destructive device or is enumerated in subsection d. of section
2 of P.L. 1997, c. 117 (N.J.S.A. 2C:43-7.2); or
8. To any person whose firearm is seized pursuant to the Prevention of Domestic Violence
Act of 1991, P.L. 1991, c. 261 (N.J.S.A. 2C:25-17 et seq.) and whose firearm has not been returned.
 
N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.6 Exception for physical disability, mental disorder or alcoholism
A permit or identification card may be issued to a person who had previously suffered from
a physical defect or disease, or mental disorder, or was an alcoholic if the applicant provides a
certificate of a medical doctor or psychiatrist licensed in New Jersey, or other satisfactory proof that
he or she is no longer suffering from that particular disability in such a manner that it would
interfere with or handicap him or her in the handling of firearms.
 
It sounds to me like if they wanted to say, "you can have them for 180 days, then you MUST have an FID or get rid them", then that is what they would have said. Instead it sounds to me, like as long as I meet all of the conditions in 13:54-1.5 an 1.6, I can keep the gun, even w/o an FID

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As for the evil features - Almost all of the "Evil Features' apply to a Semi-Auto rifle that accept

a Detachable Magazine; not a Bolt-Action rifle.

When I say 'Almost" - you still cannot have a detachable mag over rd in ANY rifle in NJ

so don't try that either.

 

 Can you point me towards the relevant statute? I have read that IF a particular magazine COULD also be used in a semi-auto rifle (or a pistol I guess), then the magazine itself would have to be NJ compliant . What is it, 15 rounds? However, in the case of the Lee Enfield No4, the magazine is rather "unique" in both its appearance and function. It will not fit in any other rifle, or handgun; certainly nothing semi-auto. Also, although the magazine ( the original magazines are 10 round) is technically removable, it was not designed or intended to be routinely removed. The magazine is intended to remain in the receiver, and the rifle is reloaded via 5 round "stripper clips". In fact, when originally issued, in WW2, the magazines were chained and locked to the trigger guard, only unit Sgt.'s had the keys to remove them. I'm not sure how that would affect the legal ramifications now.  If I were to re-chamber it to .308, I would need custom mags anyway, so I could have them machine in a unique way, so they would never fit in any other rifle at all, let alone something semi-auto. The could have some funky groove or bulge so that they would only go in my one specific receiver. Might this change things?

 

EDIT: I just copied this from page 5/6 of NJ 13:54

 

"Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container, which is capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly there from into a semi-automatic firearm"

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Can any one suggest exactly what kind of documentation I may need/want from my grandmother and/or my grandfather's "estate"? Is a simple letter stating that his estate transfers the gun, referenced by serial number/description enough? Should it include some sort of decleration such as "In keeping with the declared wishes of the deceased....." so as to be considered "willed" vs a sale by the estate?  Would any such letter need to be notarized?

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Just to clarify:

 

You do NOT need an FID to possess the rifle - long term or otherwise. Not having one subjects you to the same transport restrictions that you have with all handguns.

 

You can have a detachable magazine >15 rounds providing it is unique to a non-restricted firearm. If said mag fits and functions in a semi-automatic firearm - whether said firearm is in your possession or not - you are in violation. IOW - you can't adapt your bolt-action rifle to take FN-FAL magazines for example.

 

HTH

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

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Just to clarify:

 

You do NOT need an FID to possess the rifle - long term or otherwise. Not having one subjects you to the same transport restrictions that you have with all handguns.

 

You can have a detachable magazine >15 rounds providing it is unique to a non-restricted firearm. If said mag fits and functions in a semi-automatic firearm - whether said firearm is in your possession or not - you are in violation. IOW - you can't adapt your bolt-action rifle to take FN-FAL magazines for example.

 

HTH

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Thank you for the response. I realize I am a new member, but I have read enough threads here, and seen your posts enough to know you know your stuff.

 

Would you suggest that I get any paperwork / letter from my grandfathers estate, "just in case"? 

 

I assume those restrictions would be transporting directly to/from range, gunsmith, home, sanctioned match ,etc....?

 

On the mag issue, just to play a bit more what if, lets say I did want to adapt a FN-FAL mag, or use an AK or AR mag,etc.... Something that would otherwise be illegal, due to working in a semi-auto. If I were to PERMANENTLY modify that mag, so it could NEVER work in the original application/any semi-auto or anything other then my bolt-action rifle, would that magazine then be legal? Or is it a case of once illegal, never redeemable? I wouldn't think so, since it is acceptable to permanently reduce the capacity for use IN semi auto's, so wouldn't a perm. modification that makes it un-usable in a semi-auto be the same idea?

 

On the FID issue, If I were to do one of the .45ACP conversion that are out there for this rifle, then w/o an FID, I could never buy ammo, as it is handgun ammo. Correct? Not that I really have any interest in going that direction, but I just wanted to check.

 

 Will I have difficulty buying .303, or .308 / 7.62x51mm NATO ammo w/o an FID? In person- in state? In person -Out of State (PA)? Mail order/Internet?  What about various other parts/pieces, and/or scopes? Will people refuse to sell to me w/o an FID, even though it is not required by law for those items?

 

Thanks

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It never hurts to be able to establish legitimate ownership.

 

You are correct in your thoughts on transport - spelled out in the statute.

 

IMHO a mag that is modified so that it only works in your B/A rifle would be fine. Keep in mind that you may have to prove that in court.

 

Yes, you need a FPID to purchase handgun ammo within NJ

 

You should have no problem purchasing rifle ammo or accessories without a FPID - but stranger things have happened.

 

You are becoming a victim of your own paranoid overthinking. Relax and take a deep breath - pay no attention to those black helicopters overhead.

 

Good luck with your project gun.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

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It seems like you are quite concerned and well educated on the statutes.  I commend you for that.  I suggest reading Vlad's gun law FAQ pinned at the top, and I apologize if you have already. 

 

Here is a post I made, which I have a detailed list of "most important NJ gun laws".  Reading these statutes should clear up many of your questions, but reading the actual text of the statute may help you understand the opinions on this board:

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/57677-top-5-nj-gun-laws-you-should-know/?p=743553

 

#1)  I have used 13:54-1.13.  The executor of a will is a legal representative of the deceased person's estate.  If the will specifically states guns A B go to Tom, and Dick gets C D, then just get a copy.  If not, get a written letter from the executor stating that your grandfather wills you gun E from "the estate of your grandfather", with you, your grandfather, and the executor print/sign/date.  An executor can sign checks and legal documents on your grandfather's behalf, as part of the execution of the estate.  Done, firearm is legally owned by you with paperwork as 100% legal proof.  Notary is not required, but if you are concerned have a witness print/sign/date. 

 

FPID is for purchasing.  You do not need an FPID to "purchase / receive" a firearm via will or testamency, as stated in 13:54-1.13. 

 

Thanks. That is pretty much where I was going with thinking / interpretation on this.

 

FPID is required to carry a rifle / shotgun in NJ.  There are no additional "hunting restrictions" on rifle types / ownership, as far as NJ legality.  I don't think you can hunt anything with a 303 or 308 in NJ, but I know you can't hunt whitetail deer with one.  Many "hunting type" activities require you to carry a long gun, for target practice, off season, scouting, etc.  These would not be covered under 2C:39-6.f.2, nor would a 308 for deer hunting, and any activity "pre season" when you don't have a license yet.  In those situations you would need an FPID to carry in the woods because it would not be a legal hunting rifle, for that particular licensed hunting season. 

 

I just checked, and you are right. Nothing over a .22, as far a rifle hunting. I really have no interest in hunting anyway. I am interested in target shooting, and of course the requisite "doomsday" preparation / "zombie apocalypse" scenario . :keeporder:  Of course, if having a hunting licence got me certain legal "freedoms" with a firearm, that I wouldn't otherwise have, then I would get one. However, that doesn't look to be the case. Interestingly enough, I did have a "shotgun" Hunting Lic. years ago.  I passed the hunter safety course, etc.. My understanding is that is a once-in-a-lifetime requirement. I THINK, if I can find my old expired lic (I saw it in a draw not too long ago)., I can just go pay for a new one and be good. Do you see any real legal advantage to doing so, given that I have no intention to hunt, and couldn't do so legally with this rifle anyway?

 

You mention about needing a FPID to "carry". I'm getting a little confused now, as I think this is conflicting with what "Pizza Bob" said, but maybe I am misunderstanding you. If I do NOT have a FPID, can I legally transport this rifle from my grandmothers (where it is now) to my home initially, and then to/from my home and a range, gunsmith, sanctioned competition,etc...? Or am I playing "russian roulette" any time I leave my home with this, with out having an FPID?

 

#2) Assault firearm is a semi-auto with detachable mag (chain, Sgt's key, that's all irrelavent) plus 2 or more evil features.  You are correct, a bolt action rifle can have all the evil features you like. 

You are correct, you need an FPID for HG ammo.  Only a NJ DL is required for rifle / SG ammo, as proof of age.  Yes, if you convert to 45ACP you need FPID to buy the ammo. 

 

#3)  References are required as per NJ law, so you can't really fight that.  You must find 2 people, but they do not have to be NJ residents. 

You may put unemployed, but you may also write "self employed".  I personally hate LPD's that contact my employer, but you cannot give any false information.  I leave that up to you. 

 

I have seen a similar model 303.  From what I recall, the stock was long towards the muzzle, and the barrel only protruded 1 or 2 inches.  I'm not sure why someone would want to put a hacksaw to that, grrrrrr.  I would contact Savage Arms and see if they have any ideas for replacement parts for your rifle.  Most of those 303s used in WWII were made by Stevens / Savage in the US, but your appears to be from Long Branch (google says that was in Canada).  Savage has 308 / 762x51 conversion barrels for the Enfield.  Using that conversion would make your life easier, IMO.  And I love the 308 for the price / availability, but I don't own a 303. 

 

See Below:

It was actually very common for them to be "sporterized" in the '50s and '60s. At the time they were literally swimming in these things, as there were tons of military surplus available. In the original military form they were somewhat "cumbersome" for civilian use, for typical hunting, or even sport shooting. They were also pretty heavy. There were a number of companies doing some good quality commercial conversions, "Parker Hale" typically being recognized as the best. However, there were plenty home "hack jobs" as well. From what I understand the commercial conversions are now seen as collectibles in there own right, whereas the "bubba"-fied , not so much..... They do provide a good supply of already hacked rifles for use in modern "conversions" though.

 

This is what it looks like "stock" as issued: 

LeeEnfield4Rifle.jpg

 

 

 

The furniture on mine is cut just forward of the front sling ring. The barrel is cut about halfway between stock length and that front sling mount. Also, as I said, my magazine is missing, with the mag well plugged/plated over.

 

Its roughly this length, but otherwise stock. (minus the magazine and front sight)

303SPORTER.JPG

 

 

What I WANT, is something more like this: (minus the suppressor and the funky 1911 magazine adapter but with a quad rail/barrel shroud, as well as a "meaner" looking scope)

100_5839.JPG

 

Or maybe even something like this:

100_7015-tfb.jpg

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Sarco, springfield sporters and numrich should have most of the parts to put it back to its former glory. 

Nah. If it was original, or mostly so, then I would leave it alone. But its not. I don't want to spend hundreds, or even thousands to make it into something I don't like. Stock they look awkward and gangly. It looks dated, and reminds me of a musket. I don't want a wall hanger or museum piece.

 

Rebarreling a enfield is a major PITA though.

 

Please elaborate. What do I need to be aware of? I would most likely pay a gunsmith to do this, but I'd like to know what they run into, and charge me for.

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Why not just get the damn fpid card and not worry about this any more? Start the process now and maybe you'll see it in a couple of months, and then do what you wantSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

A.) The money involved. I'm broke at present.

 

B.) It could cause me a big problem. I'm sure that I am NOT "disqualified", as defined by the law.

 

However, I've been at my current address for only a few years, which means my current town could very well contact the PD at my prior address. That might be bad. I was never arrested, or even involved in anything criminal.

 

But, I had frequent zoning issues with the town; usually enforced by the pd.I considered all but one,maybe two, of the officers in town to be giant constitution hating, overgrown high school bully, douchebags, and I made sure they knew exactly how I felt about them, and most of their municipal mafia co-workers across the state.

 

Someone I had a financial dispute also filed a false report claiming I threatened them, and LE. I was only questioned once, briefly, but the report is there nontheless.

 

Basically I hated the town officials and the PD, and they were happy to see me leave town.

 

I think it would be a good idea to put several more years between those events, and a FPID application, so they will be less likely to contact my former town, or alternatively, so that that town will have forgotten about me by then.

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These threads usually end up like this.

 

They cannot deny you for zoning, or your old pd not liking you. Really just mental health, felonies, domestic abuse, etc

 

It's just way easier to do what you want to do (own a firearm, go shooting, buy ammo) without awkwardly trying to dance around the issue

 

Oh, and then you'll be able to buy handgun ammo, or more rifles if you wanted!

 

 

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If the financial dispute thing had a restraining order attached then you will have issues

 

But if it was just a complaint the pd will probably just ask you about it

 

I don't see the harm in applying, these things will never go away or be off your record (unless you expunge or do lawyer things)

 

 

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These threads usually end up like this.They cannot deny you for zoning, or your old pd not liking you. Really just mental health, felonies, domestic abuse, etc...........

But,depending on what the old pd says, couldn't they pull the "not in the public interest" card?

It seems they find a way to deny people, as they please; even if it is through "losing" paperwork", etc..

 

If the financial dispute thing had a restraining order attached then you will have issuesBut if it was just a complaint the pd will probably just ask you about itI don't see the harm in applying, these things will never go away or be off your record (unless you expunge or do lawyer things)Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

No, nothing like that. It was just a report taken from that "citizen". It never went any further then that. But, again couldn't they use the "public interest" clause if they don't like what they hear?

 

I don't known about "it can't hurt". If you are denied once, ever, don't you then have to disclose and explain that pretty much forever after on any other firearms related applications, even in other states?

 

Also, I can't wait months for a FPID. If I don't take the rifle soon, my uncle will, and it will be gone.

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It all just seems a little grey area loopholeish, and I think you feel that inside as well

 

I don't see why you can't take the rifle under the 180 days clause, and still apply to clear your conscience... No big deal

 

It's a chopped up enfield, unless you have some sentimental attachment to it, I'd recommend (once again like a broken record) getting your papers and just buying one in decent shape or buying the model 700 that you want

 

It's usually just very odd and borderline shady when these threads come up; how to own a firearm without getting fpid, etc etc

 

I'm checking out of this one. Good luck in whatever you do, I hope you follow the right path

 

 

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It all just seems a little grey area loopholeish, and I think you feel that inside as well

 

I don't see why you can't take the rifle under the 180 days clause, and still apply to clear your conscience... No big deal

 

It's a chopped up enfield, unless you have some sentimental attachment to it, I'd recommend (once again like a broken record) getting your papers and just buying one in decent shape or buying the model 700 that you want

 

It's usually just very odd and borderline shady when these threads come up; how to own a firearm without getting fpid, etc etc

 

I'm checking out of this one. Good luck in whatever you do, I hope you follow the right path

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

My conscience is clear. I KNOW I should have no problem owning firearms. What I didn't know was if there was some arcane, vague "trap" in the law that would get me. I don't think that is the case. Between my own opinion, and that of several others who have posted, I think I should be ok. 

 

As for the FPID, again, I know I meet the letter of the law. My concern is whether or not the police will do the right thing and give me the card, or if they will pull the typical government nonsense, and use a vague loophole to deny me, because of THEIR paranoia and dislike of armed citizens.

 

Nothing "shady". If the law clearly prohibited me from getting the gun, then that would be the end of the discussion. But, if there is a way to do it without asking for permission from our "keepers", or paying a fee to do so, then why not? I don't plan on "carrying" anywhere other then for the purposes allowed anyway (to/from range, gunsmith), so why go through the hassle of an FPID; especially since I can't afford it right now?

 

On that "180 days" clause, read it carefully. If I use that provision, a.) I am declaring myself that I believe that I am not qualified to posses a firearm. NOT something any sane person should do! and b.) the gun must be held in the possession of law enforcement during the 180 day period. Yeah, not gonna happen...

 

Yes, it does have sentimental value. My grandfather and I would "hang out" when I was little while he cleaned his guns and would educate me on proper firearms handling, and this one, he would let me "play" with. I must have dry fired it a hundred times.( I don't think he even knew what this really was, as he had always referred to it as a generic .22. I had no idea  until I started googling the ID marks on it a couple of weeks ago.) The handguns I could only see/handle when he was standing there. This one I was allowed to "mess around" with on my own. Of course there was no ammo anywhere around (it was locked up), and it was made VERY clear that I should never go anywhere near the ammo. Of course, times were very different back then too.... :-) So, yes it does have sentimental value. Its about the only "thing" I will have to remember him by. My mother died about 6 years ago, and we (my sister and I, as well as my grandparents) lost all of her "mementos",etc.. when my jerk of a stepfather let the house go into foreclosure, with everything in it, and just moved to the other side of the country without telling anybody, so I don't want to lose this. If it goes with my other relative, because I wait too long to take it, I'll never see it again.

 

So, anyway, I guess the matter is pretty much settled, unless someone feels they have something substantial or new to add. Obviously there will be differing OPINIONS, but if you have some actual cases/outcomes/laws to cite that could change this one way or the other, then I'm all ears.  I also wouldn't mind some suggestions on doing the actual modifications I talked about, where to get parts,etc..

 

Thanks everyone.

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Also, I can't wait months for a FPID. If I don't take the rifle soon, my uncle will, and it will be gone.

This is right here is a problem...........either the rifle is willed to you and it's yours or it's willed to your uncle and it's his. If you are not specifically named in the will to receive it or are named to receive his entire estate you will need to have an FPID to transfer it to you from the person who inherited his estate.

 

I know people do what they do in these cases all the time, but you're on a public forum, so be careful what you say.

 

You should probably just apply for your FPID anyway, waiting probably won't make any difference, any cop who cares about his job is going to contact your former town no matter how long ago it was that you lived there. I can't imagine what you say happened in your old town will get you denied.

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This is right here is a problem...........either the rifle is willed to you and it's yours or it's willed to your uncle and it's his. If you are not specifically named in the will to receive it or are named to receive his entire estate you will need to have an FPID to transfer it to you from the person who inherited his estate.

See post #11 in this thread, by emt_sar. It does not need to be specifically stated in a written will, that it goes to me. The executor of the estate is authorized to act on my grandfathers behalf. If the estate says it goes to me, then it is "willed"to me, assuming that doesn't contradict a specific instruction to the contrary of course.

 

 

You should probably just apply for your FPID anyway, waiting probably won't make any difference, any cop who cares about his job is going to contact your former town no matter how long ago it was that you lived there. I can't imagine what you say happened in your old town will get you denied.

I suppose..... I don't have the money right now, but I guess I'll give it a shot when I do.

In the mean time, thanks to pizza_bob and emt_sar, I feel comfortable taking possession without the fpid for now. As I said, its not really shootable right now anyway, so its just gonna sit in the closet.

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See post #11 in this thread, by emt_sar. It does not need to be specifically stated in a written will, that it goes to me. The executor of the estate is authorized to act on my grandfathers behalf. If the estate says it goes to me, then it is "willed"to me, assuming that doesn't contradict a specific instruction to the contrary of course.

 

 

I'm aware that a lot of people see it working that way........but, I've had a conversation with the NJSP firearms unit about this and they don't see it that way. Their opinion is that you need to be named specifically in the will for those firearms or inherit the estate in it's entirety to legally avoid doing paperwork to receive the firearms. They are aware that the circumstance you describe goes on often, and they did not give me the impression that they are looking to actively enforce their interpretation of the law, but I personally wouldn't push the issue on a public forum - the only reason I suggested you be careful with what you post here, no need to rattle cages.

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I suppose..... I don't have the money right now, but I guess I'll give it a shot when I do.

In the mean time, thanks to pizza_bob and emt_sar, I feel comfortable taking possession without the fpid for now. As I said, its not really shootable right now anyway, so its just gonna sit in the closet.

 

I gotta say  if you can't scrape up the $58 bucks for FPID i have no idea how you plan to pay for the mods you are talking about doing.. or even buying ammo for this thing, this is not a cheap hobby. I suspect you are more worried about the "issues" you had with your previous town's police and government.  FWIW... I have never personally heard of anyone getting tagged under the "public interest" clause, but even if that were to come into play denials can be appealed, and as bad as the courts can be a "public interest" denial is tricky  for the local pd to defend especially if it's based some other town's claim that you are troublemaker.  

 

The fact is if your new local PD does their job they will still do a full look-up on your past regardless of the amount of time that passed. So better deal with sooner rather than later. As for the why  the restrictions that come into play in transporting without a FPID can be pretty arduous. Lets assume  worst case.. you take this gun to a gunsmith to make the mods you want (legal)  a week later  you pick it up and start heading home (legal) halfway there you get a flat, so  you call AAA they tow you to local garage  to fix the tire  no you have a stop.. if you have a FPID this is not a problem, however  without one under NJ laws you just committed a felony.

 

If you think $58 bucks to get a FPID is alot wait until you see what a lawyer wants to just listen to your side of the story.  

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I gotta say  if you can't scrape up the $58 bucks for FPID i have no idea how you plan to pay for the mods you are talking about doing.. or even buying ammo for this thing, this is not a cheap hobby.

Yes, I realize it is not a cheap hobby/activity. All the more reason not to throw away money, at an already greedy/over funded government. In any case:

A.) Its more then $58. With the closest "MorphoTrack" facility being 45min-1hr away from me, the gas would cost about $20. With multiple trips to the PD, etc..., its more like $80-$85 in real costs. Assuming they don't deny it. In that case, in your own words, "wait until you see what a lawyer wants to just listen to your side of the story."

 

That $80 is 80-90 rounds of ammo, or more importantly, its a cell phone bill, or an electric bill with some left over,etc....

 

B.) I can't afford any mods, or to shoot it right now. This is just about getting it into my possession, so it is mine, to do with as I please in the future. Now, once I am able to get steady employment, that would be a different story. But I've been looking for nearly 4 years, so I'm not holding my breath.

 

I suspect you are more worried about the "issues" you had with your previous town's police and government.  FWIW... I have never personally heard of anyone getting tagged under the "public interest" clause, but even if that were to come into play denials can be appealed, and as bad as the courts can be a "public interest" denial is tricky  for the local pd to defend especially if it's based some other town's claim that you are troublemaker.

Really? I would be surprised if they never tried that trick. Of course they could just take the easy way out and "lose" the paperwork....... If they did deny, no way I can afford a lawyer to appeal, and then I have a denial "on my record"

 

 

The fact is if your new local PD does their job they will still do a full look-up on your past regardless of the amount of time that passed. So better deal with sooner rather than later. As for the why  the restrictions that come into play in transporting without a FPID can be pretty arduous. Lets assume  worst case.. you take this gun to a gunsmith to make the mods you want (legal)  a week later  you pick it up and start heading home (legal) halfway there you get a flat, so  you call AAA they tow you to local garage  to fix the tire  no you have a stop.. if you have a FPID this is not a problem, however  without one under NJ laws you just committed a felony.

 

If you think $58 bucks to get a FPID is alot wait until you see what a lawyer wants to just listen to your side of the story.

Yeah, I know they would still talk to them, but the thought was that the longer I wait, the less likely that the old PD would even remember me; and therefore less likely to have anything bad to say. Between some of the officers moving on to other employment, and the ones that are left having their brains filled with newer problems/people, I figured it would be best to be nothing more then a vague memory at worst, and "never heard of him" at best.

 

As for your scenario, about the flat, considering that it would be an unforeseen, unavoidable emergency, I would think that would fall under a deviation being "reasonably necessary under the circumstances", particularly if I could provide a receipt for the gunsmithing work, or proof I just left a range,etc... Yes, they might give me a hard time, but in the end, how could anyone find that not to be reasonably necessary, "UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES" (those exact words are in the law)?

 

 

Going back to the cost of the application, etc..., has anyone ever tried to sue on the grounds that having to pay fees totaling approximately $70-$85 in order to exercise ones' constitutional rights amount to a:) economic discrimination and b:) violates the "equal protection under the law" requirements, and are therefor unconstitutional? I might be willing to be the test case/lead plaintiff in a class action suit, if an attorney wanted to do it

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Thread hasn't gotten any less shady!

Wow! Thanks SOOOO much for that incredibly helpful post. Whatever would we do without you and your highly valuable assessment of the "shadiness" of other peoples questions/opinions? I mean, you even used an exclamation point, so your position on the nature of the thread must be super important and totally valid! (see I did it too, so I must also be right!)

 

What happened to:

"I'm checking out of this one. Good luck in whatever you do, I hope you follow the right path"

Seriously, if you are just to going to be negative, then just go away. Your first comment or two were somewhat helpful/added to the conversation, but it seems like you just want to be passive aggressive / abrasive about it now.

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Wow! Thanks SOOOO much for that incredibly helpful post. Whatever would we do without you and your highly valuable assessment of the "shadiness" of other peoples questions/opinions? I mean, you even used an exclamation point, so your position on the nature of the thread must be super important and totally valid! (see I did it too, so I must also be right!)

 

What happened to:

Seriously, if you are just to going to be negative, then just go away. Your first comment or two were somewhat helpful/added to the conversation, but it seems like you just want to be passive aggressive / abrasive about it now.

And you responding didn't add anything either

 

How's it feel?

 

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