Combat Auto 174 Posted July 30, 2013 No I replied when he brought up a comment I made on the Facebook page. I said nothing about me on this site until h.e. brought that up. What the hell is wrong with this site anymore. There are like 5-10 people on here who wanna do nothing but argue. If your that bored go fishing or rub one out. And I'm not talking just about me. Look how many threads on here end or get shut down due to arguing. Hell a new member asked about making dummy rounds out of live ones and he was all but ran out of here. Give it up or all will be lost. Stop friggin attacking everyone. Don't like me? Don't care. You wanna talk about it? Then pm me. But the bickering has to end I agree with you Shawn...It is child phycology really. If you are getting more attention than them they throw a tantrum with the "nasty". Many of us have had it out with "them"...They probably don't even know that they have this emotional reaction :-)...Hang in there and don't look for any "approvals" with this selected few. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedBowTies88 41 Posted July 30, 2013 Didn't I say this would happen like some others? Now you may have some supporters, but you have more antis looking at this saying, "We were right... They are gun toting morons... They need to be disarmed"! You will not get antis won over with this irrational type message. I have no interest in trying to convey them a message or change they're minds... if you still think that's possible then say help to the flying pig for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted July 30, 2013 I have no interest in trying to convey them a message or change they're minds... if you still think that's possible then say help to the flying pig for me. RBT, You may have no interest in conveying a message to the antis, but you didn't make this video. So then what was the purpose of his "message"? Was he just preaching to the choir? If he was just blowing off steam then why post it publicly online? Was he just showing off/posturing/grandstanding? A temper tantrum by a Chief of Police? Would you make a video like that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhunted 887 Posted July 30, 2013 We cannot afford to lose sides. Whether we like it or not, it will hurt us. So no, I'm not sure if we can sway them our way anymore. But the ones that maybe didn't care either way, (the complacent), or the ones on the fence, (undecided), just fell and will never be on our side. The ones we can never convince is the only losing battle. Do you think this is not so? I have no interest in trying to convey them a message or change they're minds... if you still think that's possible then say help to the flying pig for me. Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD Typos courtesy Apple... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryan_j 0 Posted July 30, 2013 So then what was the purpose of his "message"? Was he just preaching to the choir? It certainly seemed that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted July 30, 2013 Considering the backlash that will result/is resulting (it has already started as evidenced by the link Shawn posted above) was it worth it to tell a bunch of people someting they already know? And risk alienating a large portion if the "undecided about gun rights" population that may just have sided with us? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted July 30, 2013 They people that haven't picked a side I don't think give a crap. They just don't care. As long as we crown a new American idol they are happy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhunted 887 Posted July 30, 2013 Not quite. The people that have not been persuaded can still be if poked with the right stick from either side. We'd rather have them on our side. If not, ours, no side is fine. They people that haven't picked a side I don't think give a crap. They just don't care. As long as we crown a new American idol they are happy Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD Typos courtesy Apple... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted July 30, 2013 He really sounded like he was angry... "COME AND TAKE IT M***** F******!!!" Question, is that machine gun allowed because he's a police chief or is it his own personal NFA weapon? Someone said he "donated them to the department". Based on that I surmise that he bought them on department letterhead he signed. That means there was no transfer tax and he can buy a new M16 or FA AK for what they are really worth (maybe $1500) vs a pre 86, that you can buy in a state that let's you (like PA) for $15-20,000 plus transfer tax. I mentioned this in a previous post in this thread without those details. What I said is true, its something the resr of us can't do, unless you're a chief of police. It seems many of Kessler's supporters are also advocates against "militarization of police" but accept Kessler in his BDUs, ACUs, and FA weaponry. Does he have any clothes that aren't military? I watched some of his videos on Youtube. Based on those I'm not concerned with him teaching his army as he needs to learn himself first. Its also a good thing he's a one man department because he couldn't lead anyone out of a stall in a mens room. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
checko 180 Posted July 30, 2013 This guy has noone to blame but himself. This wasn't a rallying cry for our cause. It was a public display of buffoonery that got him canned and us another "gun nut" posterboy. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Combat Auto 174 Posted July 30, 2013 Does anyone know anyone that was converted from Anti to Pro? (seems a very-low probability event to me). Does anyone know anyone "nutral" who was converted to Pro? (probably rare also - just not as rare as above). I believe, the one major thing that can convert either of the above with a decent probability is if the person in either group was muged, beat-up, raped, or had a similiar event (or know someone very close to them who did)... I've found that usually, people's beliefs are ingrained and it takes a life changing event (e.g., above) to get them to change. I think it is largley a waste of time to try to convert peoples ingrained beliefs (you see it on the NJGF all the time ;-)). And even worse to ask nicely for your rights. Rights have to be demanded. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhunted 887 Posted July 30, 2013 I don't think so. There are people educated enough that may be outside the entire 2A / gun circle simply because it's not their cup of tea. If they are willing to listen, even after seeing this crazy chief's video, educated to the actual statistics, I'm sure they can rationalize that this guy is not the norm. Educate one, then two, then just maybe it can grow exponentially. If any of you have any faith in NJ2AS, ANJRPC, NRA org or any other, then you should not feel this way. Because they have not gone as far as firing the first shot. That shot will essentially be the next one heard around the world and I'd like to believe we are more civilized today. As always, strengths in numbers does not just refer to physical wars, but psychological wars too. Our forefathers didn't have the communication technology we have today. Newspapers, town criers, men on horseback was their media. Our comms extend into space if need be! If you feel these causes are not just, then you lose.. Nobody else. That will mean that if the war is won, you just reap the rewards of everyone else's efforts. Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD Typos courtesy Apple... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted July 30, 2013 My in-laws were all very much anti-gun. I was able to bring all but one around to a pro-gun view and my Brother-in-law even purchased his first handgun about a month ago. Since this tirade has hit the news, my mother-in-law has begun questioning a lot of things related to firearms and who needs them. I have also heard friends and family that usually don't care about guns one way or another start to ask about why anyone - especially a crazy Chief of Police in a one man Dept need FA weapons. So yes, it does happen and this incident does effect people's decisions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
checko 180 Posted July 31, 2013 Does anyone know anyone that was converted from Anti to Pro? (seems a very-low probability event to me). Does anyone know anyone "nutral" who was converted to Pro? (probably rare also - just not as rare as above). I believe, the one major thing that can convert either of the above with a decent probability is if the person in either group was muged, beat-up, raped, or had a similiar event (or know someone very close to them who did)... I've found that usually, people's beliefs are ingrained and it takes a life changing event (e.g., above) to get them to change. I think it is largley a waste of time to try to convert peoples ingrained beliefs (you see it on the NJGF all the time ;-)). And even worse to ask nicely for your rights. Rights have to be demanded. Ummmmm..... me. Growing up in NYC it is pretty much taboo to have guns and they are largely viewed as dangerous. The thought of the everyday citizen carrying a weapon was unthinkable and would turn NYC into the wold west. Some of these views lingered with me even during my first few posts here. I have no doubt that you will catch more bees with honey than vinegar here. Ya'll can all laud these incendiary "protests" but just know this just validates the opinions of gun grabbers and gives traction to actions those who would like to see an unarmed populace. I don't advocate that we roll over and take it either, but a strong, rational, uncompromising, show of solidarity will go much further. IMO of course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryan_j 0 Posted July 31, 2013 Since this tirade has hit the news, my mother-in-law has begun questioning a lot of things related to firearms and who needs them.. That's kind of ironic because anti gun types keep telling us only the police should have guns, and Kessler isn't just a police officer, he's a police chief. This isn't a knock on police, but the general ignorance of antis. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted July 31, 2013 I believe he is "Chief" of he, him, and himself. It is a one man Department. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LWRCfanboy 0 Posted July 31, 2013 They people that haven't picked a side I don't think give a crap. They just don't care. As long as we crown a new American idol they are happyAgreed.. I talk to alot of ppl about the 2a and gun ownership .. From the fun aspect of going to the range to the defense aspect of feeling safer at home at night with the family.. And ive come to the conclusion some ppl REALLY dont care they dont care about statistics or police response time or the bill of rights.. And other ppl are just a convo and an invitation to the range away from being gun guys ( or gals) ... In the end most ppl cant be swayed... Way need to rally support from ALREADY gun owners who are disconnected from the laws and get them in the fight .. I heard theres 90 million gunowners in the US so we need all of them in the NRA and SAF ... But some ppl are just mr. Mackie " guns are bad mmkay" .. Either way i dont think the chief hurt us sssoooo bad as some think here .. Theres always someone ranting on youtube deal with it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted July 31, 2013 So if thats the case should the NRA, NJ2AS, etc... Just pack up their recruitment division and concentrate solely on lobbying? Sounds like appealing to the undecided is a waste of money. If we can't change anyone's mind why are we trying? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LWRCfanboy 0 Posted July 31, 2013 If the NRA only has 5 million members out of 90 million gun owners they should focus on the 85 million.. Then 1 out of 3 citizens would be nra members.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted July 31, 2013 I every member of the NRA went out with their baddest piece and made a scene we would walk over the opposition. The real problem is an ununionfied front. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted July 31, 2013 I every member of the NRA went out with their baddest piece and made a scene we would walk over the opposition. The real problem is an ununionfied front. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD I don't think that's the answer. It would alienate us from the fencesitters and only give the anti-gun crowd reason to call us dangerous. You only have to look at the American Revolution for an example. At the start there were equal divisions of revolutionaries, those that didn't care one way or another, and loyalists. Winning over those that don't really care and following the rule of law is the only way rights will be restored. Chief Kessler apparently thinks alienating people will do us good. He's wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RUTGERS95 889 Posted July 31, 2013 some of you are missing the point here. we are not going to sway antis at all and most people on the fence, at least those I showed this video too, actually agree with this guy about rights and didn't realize people feel this strongly about it much less giving away US rights to the UN. I think some of you are way to sensitized to liberal views. You don't have to agree with me, like me or my actions but you DO HAVE TO RESPECT MY RIGHT TO SAY, EXPRESS AND ACT on it in a legal manner. Seems that is forgotten Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bob B 103 Posted July 31, 2013 I would rather have Chief Kessler, an armed civilian population and stand your ground law then a large militarized police force, a disarmed civilian population and duty to retreat. I bet there is very little crime in his town and no incentive for criminals to ever set up shop there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Combat Auto 174 Posted July 31, 2013 Ummmmm..... me. Growing up in NYC it is pretty much taboo to have guns and they are largely viewed as dangerous. The thought of the everyday citizen carrying a weapon was unthinkable and would turn NYC into the wold west. Some of these views lingered with me even during my first few posts here. I have no doubt that you will catch more bees with honey than vinegar here. Ya'll can all laud these incendiary "protests" but just know this just validates the opinions of gun grabbers and gives traction to actions those who would like to see an unarmed populace. I don't advocate that we roll over and take it either, but a strong, rational, uncompromising, show of solidarity will go much further. IMO of course. Cool..Welocom to the "Force"...Would you mind sharing what induced you to make the conversion, and how your belief system changed? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryan_j 0 Posted July 31, 2013 I believe he is "Chief" of he, him, and himself. It is a one man Department. But he is still a sworn LEO, supposedly one that is trained for months and years on how to handle firearms, which is what antis tell us makes LEO worthy of full 2A rights and the rest of us just a small slice. I even heard one liberal commentator saying that the police are disciplined together in a collective and that would make them less likely to go shoot up people. (Tell that to Chris Dorner.) Then now they are suddenly turning and attacking this police chief because he doesn't believe that guns should be overregulated and confiscated? I don't disagree with the man. I do disagree with his delivery. I think his delivery will piss off a lot of people, and the antis will spin it to say that "gun nuts" are practicing and training to assassinate politicians. But look at it this way. NJ2AS did something innocent enough, which is join with FPC to encourage people to contact the Governor and get a chance to win a gun. Bryan Miller and the rest of antis went nuts and then began telling the media that NJ2AS is essentially trafficking illegal guns. So we are going to get a bad name any way. They will spin the argument any way they want. Groups like moms demand action are already attacking open carry, equating it to brandishing of firearms. I will tell you what, I open carry sometimes because it's comfortable and I don't have to worry about printing and concealment. I don't open carry because I want people to see I have a gun. If they see I have one it does not bother me. I think that there are way too many passive gun owners out there. These guys have to wake up otherwise all of our rights are gone. People have been saying "Molon Labe" and "I will not comply." All Chief Kessler is doing is saying it louder. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woodentoe 14 Posted July 31, 2013 I every member of the NRA went out with their baddest piece and made a scene we would walk over the opposition. The real problem is an ununionfied front. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD This won't happen because not all gun owners and NRA members are a monolithic block. I'm a liberal who owns guns and is pro 2A (anti to pro convert), and I'd never line up with you. I think his video is bad form and makes us all look like lunatics. I have to expend more energy distancing myself from people like him and Yeager than I do trying to evangelize the antis. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,552 Posted July 31, 2013 I thought the chief's rant was funny, As far as the anti's " If you don't like guns don't buy one " But don't interfere with my hobby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedBowTies88 41 Posted July 31, 2013 RBT, You may have no interest in conveying a message to the antis, but you didn't make this video. So then what was the purpose of his "message"? Was he just preaching to the choir? If he was just blowing off steam then why post it publicly online? Was he just showing off/posturing/grandstanding? A temper tantrum by a Chief of Police? Would you make a video like that? This message is going out to all those who believe in our rights but don't have the balls to stand up for them in this way. its showing that you do not need to sit quietly and take it but you can loudly proclaim your rights despite what the general population thinks is appropriate. It's a message to say that some of us still have balls and will not sit quietly while the Constitution is raped. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luso 6 Posted July 31, 2013 This is a pretty silly 5 page debate, this is pretty simple Here is the real issue: is this a prudent display for a public servant like a police chief? Maybe not, and an argument can be made for that But that's not the point. Consider this - what if whenever a NJ politician looked for a police officer to stand behind him for a gun control press conference, they were met with a clone of this guy? What if every time they looked for a PD to endorse an insane gun control bill for public clout, they were met with this guy? What if when police were consulted to corroborate that gun control bills will help crime, they were met with this guy? Right now, the police HELP push bills through across blue states in the northeast. All the smiling and handshaking in the world is great and may make you feel fuzzy inside, but whether or not you think what he does is prudent - and there is a debate to be had on that - it's undeniable that if more had his attitude, the legislators wouldn't have the teeth to push their garbage down our throats. What if all constituents were foaming at the mouth like this when legislators try to conjure up their bs laws? We would all be better off. They don't care about you, and playing nice and complying is a great road to serfdom. In sum, if I was that guy, would I do what he did? Probably Not. But if everyone's veins were popping like his and put a little fear of God in our legislators, we might be better off. I am sick of seeing cops in uniform standing behind legislators like pawns to justify gun control bills, or any bills for that matter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted July 31, 2013 I think that there are way too many passive gun owners out there. These guys have to wake up otherwise all of our rights are gone. People have been saying "Molon Labe" and "I will not comply." All Chief Kessler is doing is saying it louder. THAT is the point.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites