Angry pa police chief

[Shawnmoore81 623]

He got a 30 day suspension but he thinks he is going to be fired during that time.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I believe many LEO would either quit their jobs on the spot, or outright refuse to go door to door to confiscate. ( I wouldn't do it if I were LE) I mean really how many houses do you think they would make it to before they were met with resistance (being shot at)? Two maybe three homes possibly. I know the gun owners in my town well out number the small police force. It would be suicidal for them to attempt a confiscation. I just cant picture Americans calmly handing over all their firearms to a knock on the door by the local pd. Molon Labe!Sent using Tapatalk 2

 

I doubt that. They will do what they are told and 97% will hand em over.

[pjd832 146]

but then theres the other 3%... :ph34r:

[vladtepes 1,060]

Vlad, just out of curiosity, what is your fiances brothers first name?  It's not Chris is it?

 

 

nope... but you definitely live near where I used to live... 

[DeerSlayer 241]

but then theres the other 3%... :ph34r:

maybe we should start making up " the other 3%" t-shirts?

 

Sent using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[RUTGERS95 890]

I believe many LEO would either quit their jobs on the spot, or outright refuse to go door to door to confiscate. ( I wouldn't do it if I were LE) I mean really how many houses do you think they would make it to before they were met with resistance (being shot at)? Two maybe three homes possibly. I know the gun owners in my town well out number the small police force. It would be suicidal for them to attempt a confiscation. I just cant picture Americans calmly handing over all their firearms to a knock on the door by the local pd. Molon Labe! Sent using Tapatalk 2

respectfully, you should sit back and think about this outside of a vacuum.  Absolutely no way MANY LEOS quit on the spot and don't comply with this if it happened.  Hell, just look at Boston to see how gleefully people allowed their Constitutional rights to be swept aside.  Police are not only increasingly militarized but many have lost sense of community much less the rules.  Below is a picture of an officer violating police protocol with no action taken after the fact

 

[High Exposure 5,661]

Where is the violation?

 

Are you referring to the Officer aiming in on a possible threat from an unsecured location while searching for a terrorist scumbag? (I am assuming that you do not believe that the Boston bombing and search was a drill to accustom LEO and residents for the NWO)

 

A photo captures 1/100th of an instant in time. What happened the instant before? What happened the instant after? Was there motion in a threat area that drew his attention? When alerted the Officer perhaps attempted to ID the unknown? Maybe the next instant, once the unknown was deemed not a threat the Officer stoped overi g the area that could hide a terrorist? Could the officer see clearly through the glass, from bright sunlight to dark interior, well enough to ID the person on the window and the object they may be holding?

 

The pointing of a firearm at a suspected danger area by a LEO is considered "Constructive Force". It is on par with giving commands such as "Show me your hands" or "Don't move". It is the lowest Use of Force there is and has been such or decades. As long as as it is "reasonable" - and covering an unknown in a danger area while searching for a terrorist that has just shot it out with police and detonated explosives is most assuredly "reasonable" and is 100% in policy.

[Soju 153]

The pointing of a firearm at a suspected danger area by a LEO is considered "Constructive Force". It is on par with giving commands such as "Show me your hands" or "Don't move". It is the lowest Use of Force there is and has been such or decades. As long as as it is "reasonable" - and covering an unknown in a danger area while searching for a terrorist that has just shot it out with police and detonated explosives is most assuredly "reasonable" and is 100% in policy.

I actually agree. The issue is, this only holds true when select individuals do it. If someone who isn't a LEO or government agent points a firearm at someone they think might be a threat, they get to go to jail for brandishing or unlawful use of force. The same standard does not apply.

[ktd1597 10]

I actually agree. The issue is, this only holds true when select individuals do it. If someone who isn't a LEO or government agent points a firearm at someone they think might be a threat, they get to go to jail for brandishing or unlawful use of force. The same standard does not apply.

I believe it would apply if you were lawfully possessing your firearm.  If someone broke into your home (lawful possession) and you chose to prone them out rather than shoot, or a business owner (lawful possession) who gets the drop on a robber decides not to shoot and orders the suspect to the ground and waits for backup, etc.  The issue isn't the pointing as much as what's going on when pointing the gun.  Police are not allowed to randomly point guns for no reason.  

 

Although I'm certain at some point some dumb Officer did.......

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I see it as a threat and even more as intimidation. As a teenager and early 20's I've had em pulled on me for regular traffic stops. I guess in that world it's ok to walk up to a car guns drawn for something like headlight covers. What I was really guilty of was having nice cars at a young age. Hell one buddy of mine ended up flipping out on the side of the road because he got sick of it. Ended up pulling out his pay check stub and showing he made more then them.

 

 

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[1LtCAP 4,262]

I see it as a threat and even more as intimidation. As a teenager and early 20's I've had em pulled on me for regular traffic stops. I guess in that world it's ok to walk up to a car guns drawn for something like headlight covers. What I was really guilty of was having nice cars at a young age. Hell one buddy of mine ended up flipping out on the side of the road because he got sick of it. Ended up pulling out his pay check stub and showing he made more then them.

 

 

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where do you live that they approached with guns drawn? as a teen, and into my early 20's i was pulled over more than my share of times, for everything from expired tags, to racing, to just plain stupid. then i pretty much acted the ass/stupid when the officer was at my car. never once did one ever even put his hand on his sidearm, much less draw it.  and this was all over south jersey, and all over philly.

[ryan_j 0]

I believe many LEO would either quit their jobs on the spot, or outright refuse to go door to door to confiscate. ( I wouldn't do it if I were LE) I mean really how many houses do you think they would make it to before they were met with resistance (being shot at)? Two maybe three homes possibly. I know the gun owners in my town well out number the small police force. It would be suicidal for them to attempt a confiscation. I just cant picture Americans calmly handing over all their firearms to a knock on the door by the local pd. Molon Labe! Sent using Tapatalk 2

 

And here's a point I want to make.

 

I keep hearing from cops on this board about how civilians don't really care about the police and if they refuse to comply with gun control, that civilians will just stand by and watch the cops who took a stand have their lives ruined.

 

Well, here we have police chief Mark Kessler. He said something controversial, over the top and proclaimed that he "will not comply" with gun control (in this case, the UN small arms treaty). He gets suspended by his town and TONS of gun toting 2nd amendment supporters show up in his defense. He has support not only in his town but nationwide too. 

 

So what does that say? It says that the assumption that 2A supporting civilians will simply throw LE under the bus if they stand with us is unequivocally FALSE. In fact, his "brothers" in LE are the ones throwing him under the bus!!! 

[ktd1597 10]

And here's a point I want to make.

 

I keep hearing from cops on this board about how civilians don't really care about the police and if they refuse to comply with gun control, that civilians will just stand by and watch the cops who took a stand have their lives ruined.

 

Well, here we have police chief Mark Kessler. He said something controversial, over the top and proclaimed that he "will not comply" with gun control (in this case, the UN small arms treaty). He gets suspended by his town and TONS of gun toting 2nd amendment supporters show up in his defense. He has support not only in his town but nationwide too. 

 

So what does that say? It says that the assumption that 2A supporting civilians will simply throw LE under the bus if they stand with us is unequivocally FALSE. In fact, his "brothers" in LE are the ones throwing him under the bus!!! 

I would not say they are throwing him under the bus.  Many stated they supported his believe, not his delivery.  They argued that his technique caused more harm than good to their belief in the 2A and his ability to effectively enforce the law on all matters.

 

As far as the confiscation talk and whether or not police will follow through should an "Orwellian style government" take over?  No one is going to tip their hand on a public forum at how they would handle some type of government takeover.  I'll save the speculation for TV or the day it happens.  I know what I and many others will do.  

 

I WILL gladly discuss a zombie apocalypse!  

[Johnny 0]

I see it as a threat and even more as intimidation. As a teenager and early 20's I've had em pulled on me for regular traffic stops. I guess in that world it's ok to walk up to a car guns drawn for something like headlight covers. What I was really guilty of was having nice cars at a young age. Hell one buddy of mine ended up flipping out on the side of the road because he got sick of it. Ended up pulling out his pay check stub and showing he made more then them.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

That is a very serious and infuriating (to some people) crime in some areas. Add out of state plates and it gets even worse.

[Blacksmythe 71]

Wow! I wish Newark had a chief like that.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Hell one buddy of mine ended up flipping out on the side of the road because he got sick of it. Ended up pulling out his pay check stub and showing he made more then them. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I can't comment on having the cops pull a gun on you at a traffic stop as there is only one side of the story here. I can assure you it wasn't just because you had headlight covers. Maybe they thought you were the other Shawn Moore you have told us about?

 

Exactly what was your buddy trying to prove with the pay stub? He made too much money to do something wrong? I've arrested a lot of people that made more money than me. Can't see what a difference their income made.

[Blacksmythe 71]

it is all about what is important to you in life.... i left all my friends AND family in NJ... just walked away...a year later my fiances brother (a cop of roughly ten years in NJ) followed me and left his NJ LEO career behind for a new life in PA..

 

so yeah.. it can be hard.. it can be scary.. but you absolutely can do it if you want to..

by your example I plant to just do it.

[gunguy1960 2]

Hes not himself when he hasnt had his snickers bar.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I can't comment on having the cops pull a gun on you at a traffic stop as there is only one side of the story here. I can assure you it wasn't just because you had headlight covers. Maybe they thought you were the other Shawn Moore you have told us about?

 

Exactly what was your buddy trying to prove with the pay stub? He made too much money to do something wrong? I've arrested a lot of people that made more money than me. Can't see what a difference their income made.

Because to these guys if you were young and had a nice car you were a drug dealer. After getting pulled over and searched over and over people get pissed. Always making little comments about "how did you afford this?"

[woodentoe 14]

When I started driving in NYC as a teenager, I became aware of standard night time pullover procedure.

 

cop A came to the drivers window and lit up te car with his light. Cop B stood at the rear right of the car and lit up from the back. The rear officers gun was Unholstered at his side in case anything went down.

 

Everyone I knew and everyone I knew who was a cop was aware of the sop. And I was driving and 83 Chrysler Lebaron (in 1993).

[LWRCfanboy 0]

Wow! I wish Newark had a chief like that.

i wish we had a chief that actually works here or police that come when you call (i dont even call anymore i handle things myself).

[1LtCAP 4,262]

re vlad moving and leaving everyone.....

 

 if it were friends, and normal family, i'd be outta here in the blink of an eye. but the fact is that mom NEEDS someone. she has 2 choices. me or my brother. my brother has proven himself not only unreliable, but also a shcmuck when it comes to firearms, and most things financial. i'm no god, and am super far from perfect........but i can't desert mom. no way no how. can't do it. she wouldn't do it to me, so i can't do it to her.

 

 also, got 5 years left on the lease where my business is.

[vladtepes 1,060]

re vlad moving and leaving everyone.....

 

 if it were friends, and normal family, i'd be outta here in the blink of an eye. but the fact is that mom NEEDS someone. she has 2 choices. me or my brother. my brother has proven himself not only unreliable, but also a shcmuck when it comes to firearms, and most things financial. i'm no god, and am super far from perfect........but i can't desert mom. no way no how. can't do it. she wouldn't do it to me, so i can't do it to her.

 

 also, got 5 years left on the lease where my business is.

 

 

when I was young.. my parents divorced... they had their own problems... my grandmother took me in.. she raised me along with my grandfather.... at first she came to PA... and made a go at it.. but she missed the people in NJ too much so back she went... and I stayed.. she is around 90.... I love my grandmother to death... she means so much to me... but sadly people do not live forever... and there comes a point where your life has to be about you.. it has to be about your spouse.. and one day your kids... at some point in time.. your ancestors made that same hard choice.. and moved to America...

 

if you are happy.. more power to you...if you are not happy.. chance brings change... you gotta bite the bullet at some point and make those hard choices.. I KNOW that some people will view that as cold.. but for me.. it is logical.. I had to take emotions and remove them from the equation, put excuses aside and just go for it.. 

[Combat Auto 174]

Cmon, Vlad, it is just a little rediculous for everyone (in every circumstance) to just pick-up and leave NJ. We are all proud of you, you got Balls and all that, but you are framing this in a gross oversimplification...

 

That said, when they legislate 1 round per magazine in NJ I AM Leaving. I really, really, really, mean it!!! (or keep 7 pistols ready with 1 round each ;-)).

[vladtepes 1,060]

Cmon, Vlad, it is just a little rediculous for everyone (in every circumstance) to just pick-up and leave NJ. We are all proud of you, you got Balls and all that, but you are framing this in a gross oversimplification...

 

That said, when they legislate 1 round per magazine in NJ I AM Leaving. I really, really, really, mean it!!! (or keep 7 pistols ready with 1 round each ;-)).

 

 

I have been married... I have owned a home..ive been divorced... I have left my job of over a decade.. and at one point in my life I have been homeless..  I have been through a decent amount... and the happiest I have been.. is when I "over simplified" my life... happiness came when I started to make simple decisions and follow them...  instead of deciding why I could NOT do something... I started to decide how I COULD do something...

 

obviously not everyone can just up and leave.. maybe you are stuck in a mortgage...  but if that is the case rent your house out until you are out from under it... and rent in a state you want to live in until it you can sell your NJ house... there are ways to figure it out... and while they may not be immediate... sitting around and stacking up the reasons why you cant is not helping you get to where you want to be..

 

I am NOT just talking about living in NJ.. I am talking about life in general.. 

[1LtCAP 4,262]

when I was young.. my parents divorced... they had their own problems... my grandmother took me in.. she raised me along with my grandfather.... at first she came to PA... and made a go at it.. but she missed the people in NJ too much so back she went... and I stayed.. she is around 90.... I love my grandmother to death... she means so much to me... but sadly people do not live forever... and there comes a point where your life has to be about you.. it has to be about your spouse.. and one day your kids... at some point in time.. your ancestors made that same hard choice.. and moved to America...

 

if you are happy.. more power to you...if you are not happy.. chance brings change... you gotta bite the bullet at some point and make those hard choices.. I KNOW that some people will view that as cold.. but for me.. it is logical.. I had to take emotions and remove them from the equation, put excuses aside and just go for it.. 

i'm not saying you're wrong.....but really? what would you think of someone that deserted their own mother, knowing that they were needed by her?

[ryan_j 0]

I'm not saying I hope PA becomes like this but it's days as a free state seem to be numbered. Bloomberg already has his nose in the tent and I don't think he's finished. Not to mention Brooklyn and the Bronx moving to PA all the time. Ads are in NYC papers for PA houses touting an easy commute and low cost of living. Previously crime free suburban places are now riddled with crime imported from New York and New Jersey. And PA has been getting more blue by the day. So yeah you can run to PA but I have a feeling the cancer is spreading faster than we thought.

[LWRCfanboy 0]

I'm not saying I hope PA becomes like this but it's days as a free state seem to be numbered. Bloomberg already has his nose in the tent and I don't think he's finished. Not to mention Brooklyn and the Bronx moving to PA all the time. Ads are in NYC papers for PA houses touting an easy commute and low cost of living. Previously crime free suburban places are now riddled with crime imported from New York and New Jersey. And PA has been getting more blue by the day. So yeah you can run to PA but I have a feeling the cancer is spreading faster than we thought.

but thats true for the whole US... if the federal government passes firearms restriction laws thats the law of the law our only opition is to fight when they come to our door to confiscate... and like the evil one said that is the goal confiscate confiscate confiscate...

[ryan_j 0]

Exactly. So that's why you stand and fight, don't just run and think the problem will go away. You may lose anyway but at least you fought.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I'm not saying I hope PA becomes like this but it's days as a free state seem to be numbered. Bloomberg already has his nose in the tent and I don't think he's finished. Not to mention Brooklyn and the Bronx moving to PA all the time. Ads are in NYC papers for PA houses touting an easy commute and low cost of living. Previously crime free suburban places are now riddled with crime imported from New York and New Jersey. And PA has been getting more blue by the day. So yeah you can run to PA but I have a feeling the cancer is spreading faster than we thought.

I'm sorry... But I think your totally wrong.... There are a handful of large metropolitan area that would love to go the way of NJ and NY.. But for every individual that wants that you have several that have views similar to this officer... Also understand PA is vast, and not represented by those relatively small urban areas...

 

In pa they say

"If you try to have a gun rights rally here at this park you will be in trouble.."

And not only do the people show up but they blatantly defy the town and show up with guns....

 

What you have a good chance of seeing are small urban clusters with "special rules" like Philly... But good luck with sweeping state wide regulations...