Good Reason to Invest in Reinforced Doors

[High Exposure 5,664]

The only way they shouldn't of used a taser is if the knocked him on his ass with a baton. The police were responding to a domestic call. Not only did neither adult step outside they are trying to hide behind invasion of privacy. If either spouse is being beaten you really think the are going to be willing to admit it in front of the abuser. Maybe both parents were beating the crap out of the kid and they are laying in a corner somewhere. If they had stepped outside and nothing was going on this would of been over in two minutes. Also the officer didn't go in there all ragged up. He was very calm during the encounter.

 

When my daughter was younger she accidentally called 911. We spoke with the operator explained what happened. Five minutes later the police showed up. After putting my dog away I had him come in. Made sure everybody is ok and no issues. He didn't want to search the house or raid my safe. Never left the kitchen. Over and done. You have to take into account the officers respond to a call and encounter these jackasses. At this point the officers have no idea who these people are but they are supposed to take their word that everything is ok?I am all for privacy and our freedom but there is a time to suck it up and cooperate as humans.

Exactly, the Cops were calm but forceful. They continued to try to talk it through. They gave opportunities for this whole thing to go another way. The residents/cameraman made that situation what it was. The Cops had no need of a warrant to enter as they had proof of obstruction, literally witnessing the crime, and RAS that a DV occurred. Although in NJ that scenario would have been a no-go for the use of a Taser.

 

A little cooperation and consideration of your community, even if you have no respect for the Police, and this would have likely been a non-event. Or you can be like Mipa and do everything the hard way. Dealers choice, either way, it is getting done. You can choose whether the price is 2 minutes of your time or you can make an unsafe condition for all involved, give yourself and your community bigger headaches than necessary, and have to hire a lawyer.

 

As far as 911 calls, in most counties (may even be the whole state, but I know Middlesex County has this Policy) Police have to respond for a face to face with residents to any 911 call regardless of if it is a misdial, accidental call/butt dial, non-emergency, or hang-up.

[RUTGERS95 890]

anyone remember the commercial of the older couple in bed hearing the woman being beaten and crying and opt NOT to call the police?  It was powerful and stays with you.

 

I think this happens often, better to air on the side of getting involved and calling vs not calling and there be a real issue.

[High Exposure 5,664]

That's exactly why i asked.... It's not that i think like that, it's that i do not have experience with it..

 

My only real grip with the situation was after they entered, i don't feel like they were contributing to the situation by acting extremely hostile.. typically in these situations you wouldn't want to give the person your trying to help any reason to be afraid of you.. Like you guys are saying its already hard for these people to open up to you..

They are Cops, not Social Workers (although it fells like that is mostly what I do). They are supposed to take control. It had already escalated to the point where the Officers had to force entry because the resident was not complying and the responding Cops feared for the safety of some of the occupants. They really weren't that bad under the circumstances, they were under control, they were forceful but also polite. They made it known that they were telling and not asking for compliance, then they gained compliance in the least injurious anger they had available.

 

There are many documented instances of Police being hurt or killed by the "victim" in a DV. Once they realize their paycheck/protection is leaving or getting arrested, they fight. You must first control the scene, then you can investigate. This keeps everyone safe, especially the residents.

[vladtepes 1,060]

i dont know if it was mentioned but there was another child in the home.. and one outside that was unaccounted for... I am sure whenever there is potential DV situation AND a child it is that much more serious... I am not saying the cops had to kick in the door.. but the homeowners really left little options... 

[silverado427 10,716]

I wonder who's paying for the door repair.

[High Exposure 5,664]

I wonder who's paying for the door repair.

In NJ, as long as the door was taken down in good faith - it was reasonable to believe (from a Cop's Persepctive) that the door had to be damaged to achieve a legitimate law enforcement purpose at that instant in time - it's the resident's responsibility to repair the door. Even if the investigation reveals there was no wrongdoing at that location.

[bravozulu14 0]

In a DV call, is arrest mandatory or through on the site investigation can the LEO determine that there was no DV taking place? 

[Anselmo 87]

There are two errors the cops can make:

 

1.  Assume no DV when there is DV and leave and someone winds up in the hospital or worse.

 

2.  Assume there is DV when there is not, knock down doors and taser people.  Doors get fixed and the tasered recover. 

 

Seems like #2 is better error to make.

[Night Prowler 0]

In a DV call, is arrest mandatory or through on the site investigation can the LEO determine that there was no DV taking place?

No there doesn't have to be an arrest.

[High Exposure 5,664]

All reports of possible DVs have to be investigated.

 

Only certain "relationships" fall under DV. Plaintiff and victim must live together or have lived together in the past, have a dating relationship, or have a child together. They must both be adults or emancipated juveniles.

 

Then, there are only certain crimes that are considered DV Offenses. For example - simple assault, ag assault, kidnapping, murder, stalking, arson, harassment, violation of a restraining order, etc...

 

You have to first determine that the relationship is eligible, then that a DV specific crime took place.

 

You then have to determine who the victim and actor are, this is often very hard.

 

Finally, if certain things are present, such as - signs of violence, victim states they are fearful for their safety, etc... An arrest is mandatory and changes filed by Police if the victim is reluctant.

 

Also in NJ, only people involved in a DV are eligible for a criminal restraining order. If the order is violated it is also a mandatory arrest, no bail, and the defendant sits in the hoosegow until they see a Judge.

 

Refer to NJSA 2C:25 for more info.

 

And yes, It is very frustrating because there are a lot of folks out there that know the system and use it to their advantage, making false claims of fear or injury just to "win" a fight or piss off their boy/girl friend.

 

Booze and mishandling of DV calls are the most common ways Cops get jammed up. It is a complicated call type and what I wrote above merely glosses over most of it. Fortunately we are mandated to train on this topic every year and I make my people review the guidelines monthly, along with search and seizure, use of force, and missing persons reporting requirements.

 

No there doesn't have to be an arrest.

Incorrect. There are mandatory arrest requirements for certain instances.

[Night Prowler 0]

Incorrect. There are mandatory arrest requirements for certain instances.

Understandable. Meant if after investigation there was no issue.

[High Exposure 5,664]

Ah, gotcha!

[BlueLineFish 615]

Cases of DV are taken so seriously that as long as an officer is acting in good faith he can not be held liable. They would rather you take more action than necessary than not enough, even it it may seem overboard. The victim of the suspected abuse does NOT have to press charges. If an officer makes a determination he can arrest the aggressor even if the victim doesnt want to press charges.

[Night Prowler 0]

anyone remember the commercial of the older couple in bed hearing the woman being beaten and crying and opt NOT to call the police? It was powerful and stays with you.

 

I think this happens often, better to air on the side of getting involved and calling vs not calling and there be a real issue.

It's a sad characteristics of people today. It's always easier to do nothing.

[RedBowTies88 41]

Easier to do nothing but harder to mind your own business?

[JackDaWack 2,895]

after reviewing the video a couple more times i'm going to retract my previous statement about after they entered.. HE, you did a very good job putting this into perspective for at least me. The more i watched the video, the more annoying and belligerent that guy became, and the more i notice the officers giving simple demands to just relax and be cool. These people dug there own hole, or at least that guy did.. when they asked the guy to basically just take a step back after he didn't get on the ground they asked the woman to step outside, neither complied with such a simple and really non offensive demand.. seems like they gave quite a few options to these people to just figure out why they were called there..

 

 

And really, why all the fuss? You gotta have a really big stick up your ass to do this.. i know people are gonna say its your right, whether true or not, i don't really see the reason to exercise your rights under such a condition, they are clearly there for one reason only... and its not to violate your rights..

[High Exposure 5,664]

Easier to do nothing but harder to mind your own business?

I don't quite get what you're saying here.

 

Are you saying that neighbors and police should "mind their own business" while someone is being victimized, or am I misunderstanding you?

[DeerSlayer 241]

Tazer wouldn't happen in NJ. Its illegal for LE to use them also illegal for citizens to own or use them. Chances are if that happened in this state it would have been pepper spray instead of Tazer. The guy in Belleville that the police shot during almost the same call was actually beating his wife and then lunged at the police with knives in hands. I just saw on the news the people in the community including the wife that was being beaten are protesting that the police are not being brought up on charges. Sorry but those officers did what they had to do. And were left with no other options. The guy got what he should have expected when attempting to charge police with knives. If tazers were legal for law enforcement to use in NJ that guy may still be alive. The dude in California from the video was lucky he got tazed.

 

 

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[Night Prowler 0]

I don't quite get what you're saying here.

 

Are you saying that neighbors and police should "mind their own business" while someone is being victimized, or am I misunderstanding you?

Not the police. Just your average person. Wether its calling in to report a DV situation, helping in an accident, or even trying to change a school policy that you disagree with. In general taking a stand against anything. I'm not saying all people but its becoming the majority. It's easier to not get involved.

People have become content to watch and say or do nothing.

[High Exposure 5,664]

Tazer wouldn't happen in NJ. Its illegal for LE to use them also illegal for citizens to own or use them. Chances are if that happened in this state it would have been pepper spray instead of Tazer. The guy in Belleville that the police shot during almost the same call was actually beating his wife and then lunged at the police with knives in hands. I just saw on the news the people in the community including the wife that was being beaten are protesting that the police are not being brought up on charges. Sorry but those officers did what they had to do. And were left with no other options. The guy got what he should have expected when attempting to charge police with knives. If tazers were legal for law enforcement to use in NJ that guy may still be alive. The dude in California from the video was lucky he got tazed.

 

 

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Incorrect.

 

New Jersey Atty. Gen. authorized use of Tasers in 2010. The initial policy was so restrictive no agency started carrying them.

 

In December 2011 the policy was relaxed to make it feasible and the New Jersey State Police held a week long training at their Academy in Sea Girt given by Taser Inc. for 70 sworn Law-Enforcement Officers to be trained as trainers in the use of the Taser. A law was written to exempt LEOs from the probibition of the possession of the device while on duty (with some special hoops that have to be jumped through) and 2 devices were authorized to be carried with the caveat that they had to have cameras on them, and the Use of Force Policy was amended to include a new level of force - Enhanced Mechanical - which includes only the Taser.

 

I was lucky enough to be one of those instructors. Since that time I've trained over 150 officers in Middlesex County in the use and deployment of the Taser X2, and have carried one on duty in the municipality I work in.

 

There have been at least three incidents in the state where the devices have been used successfully. I was present for one of them, But my training partner was the one who actually deployed the device.

[DeerSlayer 241]

Incorrect.

 

New Jersey Atty. Gen. authorized use of Tasers in 2010. The initial policy was so restrictive no agency started carrying them.

 

In December 2011 the police was relaxed to make it feasible and the New Jersey State Police held a week long training at their Academy in Sea Girt given by Taser Inc. for 70 sworn Law-Enforcement Officers to be trained as trainers in the use of the Taser. A law was written to exempt LEOs from the probibition of the possession of the device while on duty (with some special

Hoops that have to be jumped through) and 2 devices were authorized to be carried with the caveat that they had to have cameras on them, and the Use of Force Policy was amended to include a new level of force - Enhanced Mechanical - which includes only the Taser.

 

I was lucky enough to be one of those instructors. Since that time I've trained over 150 officers in Middlesex County in the use and deployment of the Taser X2, and have carried one on duty in the municipality I work in.

 

There have been at least three incidents in the state where the devices have been used successfully. I was present for one of them, But my training partner was the one who actually deployed the device.

yep just read the statute. Cool cops should have them. So should citizens but thats another discussion. I have to say im kinda curious to see what it feels like to get nailed by one. I would totally volunteer to get shot with one if asked. Im sure its not pleasant but neither was bungee jumping the first time, or sky diving ect. Even pepper sprayed myself a few times in an attempt to build a tolerance to it, im never doing that again!

 

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[BlueLineFish 615]

I am looking forward to when it becomes available to my dept. I think i might actually prefer that over oc spray

[High Exposure 5,664]

OC is a cake walk. That Taser is no joke

[checko 180]

There have been at least three incidents in the state where the devices have been used successfully. I was present for one of them, But my training partner was the one who actually deployed the device.

I almost sense a bit of jealousy there lol

[High Exposure 5,664]

you know me so well! I reeeeaaaaalllly wanted to be the first guy in NJ to tase someone!

 

Actually it worked great. Suicidal person with a knife. He was sawing away at his own neck, there was blood everywhere. Without the Taser we would have been limited to the following options: We could have shot him, we could have wrestled with a suicidal guy with a knife (you ever wrestle with someone covered in blood? Blood is slippery, makes it hard to control extremities), or we could have watched him literally saw his head off his neck. Luckily we had a Taser, so instead he got a 5 second taste of "Edison's Medicine" where he locked up like a 2x4. We were then able to secure him, wrap him up in a blanket, and get him transported to RWJUH where he got the help he needed and no one gut hurt. Easy day!

[checko 180]

Jesus Christ. Sounds like a much better option to me.

[DeerSlayer 241]

Jesus Christ. Sounds like a much better option to me.

Ditto.

Even if a cop is wrong in tazing your ass atleast your still alive to sue the municipality lol. Your chances of waking up the next day after being shot by a service weapon are slim at best.

 

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[checko 180]

Ditto.

Even if a cop is wrong in tazing your ass atleast your still alive to sue the municipality lol. Your chances of waking up the next day after being shot by a service weapon are slim at best.

 

Sent using Tapatalk 2

In this case it didn't seem like the subject was too worried about waking up lol. But yeah tazer me over some hollow points any day.

[mipafox 438]

 

A little cooperation and consideration of your community, even if you have no respect for the Police, and this would have likely been a non-event. Or you can be like Mipa and do everything the hard way. Dealers choice, either way, it is getting done. You can choose whether the price is 2 minutes of your time or you can make an unsafe condition for all involved, give yourself and your community bigger headaches than necessary, and have to hire a lawyer.

 

 

If I don't open the door for you it hurts my community? Did you learn this in a taxpayer-paid tactical bullshit class or are you just that good? Come on, man.

 

Let me set this straight. I don't have any lack of respect for LEO. I don't have any hatred or dislike for LEO. But there is this. Every day, your job is to violate the Constitutional Rights of the Citizenry. And it's getting worse, fast. Now, you can say you don't write laws. You can say I should run for office or try to get them changed. No politician is ever going to arrest me for exercising my Right to Keep and Bear Arms. No politician is ever going to taze me. No politician is going to tap my phone without a warrant. And no politician is ever going to hand me a letter that says I must provide all information I have about my own wife, on an ongoing basis, without ever talking to anyone, not even my lawyer, until the day I am dead, with no due process or right of appeal. No Politician will ever do any of those things to me.

 

Am I condemning you or your profession? No. I know at least two of you on this forum are clearly good guys, and I'm sure more of you are but it's not always easy to tell around here. I am simply a principled man, and as such, I cannot assist any of you in your endeavors. The politicians, the executives, the police, the whole ball of wax.

 

We all know people that have signed up to go die in Iraq of Afghanistan, or a hundred other countries. It is a very honorable and valorous act that demands respect. Not one of those people did anything to fight for our rights as Americans or further Liberty in the destiny of the Human Race, which is currently spiraling down the toilet.

 

“The United States remains the last best hope for a mankind plagued by tyranny and deprivation. America is no stronger than its people, and that means you and me. Well, I believe in you, and I believe that if we work together, then one day we will say, "We fought the good fight. We finished the race. We kept the faith." And to our children and our children's children, we can say, "We did all what could be done in the brief time that was given us here on earth.” - Regan

This is pretty much the end. Not just of America, but for Humanity. I do not physically resist police, under any circumstances. That is not legal in my Commonwealth. I never bait police or try to bother them. I am polite to every one I meet. A couple years ago I saw a cop I thought was in trouble and I was the first responder - turns out it was a false alarm.

 

But I will not assist your endeavors. And waiving my rights to you only imperils me, personally. And if that endangers "Every one involved" *cough* you meant me *cough* then I ask you this. Should I be so selfish, with people going overseas to die, that I am unwilling to risk an unlawful assault or death by police in my own country as a cost for standing up for the rights of the Citizenry? To remind you, I am simply discussing a non-violent lack of consent. Not any resistance whatsoever.

 

I'm not the slightest bit surprised that this is what we have come to.

[High Exposure 5,664]

You know exactly what I meant. Every minute wasted on dealing with the selfish hard-ass that can't spare a minute to speak with the Police to resolve an issue, simply because he has a right to be a hard-ass is time wasted on other calls, in other neighborhoods, with other residents. Turning a 15 minute welfare check call into a 2 hour standoff over "I know my rights" is retarded. Especially when 9 out of 10 times, the person who claims that "I know my rights" or claims the arrest was unlawful is unequivocally in the wrong.

 

You don't have to assist me. That's fine. Like I said, what needs to be done, will be done. All while following all pertinent laws, regulations, and general orders. It will be up to the courts to determine of what was done was lawful or not.

 

The fact that you think the sole job of the Police is to trample your Constitutional Rights tells me everything I need to know. I most certainly do not want you to run for office and I don't care who you respect or do not.

 

Oh, and I am that good