Is it legal to make your own lowers in NJ?

[raz-0 1,259]

Not always.  As far as the feds are concerned, if the firearm isn't kept overnight, it doesn't need to be entered in the bound book.

 

As far as having a friend build it, as long as they aren't doing it for a profit, it should be okay.  I would recommend the owner of the receiver be present at all times though so there's no mistaking who owns the firearm.

 

Yes. Federal. NJ has it's own definitions of what constitutes a transfer. If the right set of rules have not been followed, me lending you a firearm at the range so you cna try it out and run a mag through it is considered a transfer. IF the range is a club that follows certain rules about submitting membership roles, then it's not. NJ is full of stupid. 

[leadunderpressure 52]

The analogy isn't meant to be an apples/apples comparison. Just a link to logical thought.

And the logic in that example is based on "use" or "purpose" or "intent".

 

But this discussion seems to be based on circular logic. When the legality of the lower is called into question, the lower suddenly becomes a paperweight. When the lower's "use" or "purpose" or "intent" is to be a part of an unregistered firearm, it can no longer be called a paperweight.

And round and round it goes.

 

So is this really all about the legality of manufacturing a lower to be used as a paperweight? Or is it about manufacturing a lower to be used as a firearm?

 

I suppose you can always test the legality of this by taking a serialized lower and then stripping it down to the metal, and then grinding away all of it's markings. Now you have a similar paperweight. And who can say that you didn't manufacture it yourself?

 

Ok, but now what? You have a paperweight?

 

Personally I'd opt for something less risky to help me secure my papers to the desk

 

 

And I'd be confident in the fact that I'll never have to hear a LEO order me to "step away from the snow globe sir!"

Now you have defaced a firearm. Another Federal crime. Firearms are by no means the same as automobiles. In some ways I'd prefer if they were.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[5th4x4 0]

Now you have defaced a firearm. Another Federal crime. Firearms are by no means the same as automobiles. In some ways I'd prefer if they were.

 

 

I appreciate the literal and factual basis of your statement. My comments however, have been strictly analogous. 

 

The law has already been referenced here in this thread. That should be enough to settle the matter. Therefore my analogous ramblings were meant only as an attempt to use a more common sense approach for thinking about the subject.

I thought that I was pretty clear on that point, but apparently not.

I'll try to be more anal and less analogous in the future.

[MidwestPX 172]

I appreciate the literal and factual basis of your statement. My comments however, have been strictly analogous. 

 

The law has already been referenced here in this thread. That should be enough to settle the matter. Therefore my analogous ramblings were meant only as an attempt to use a more common sense approach for thinking about the subject.

I thought that I was pretty clear on that point, but apparently not.

I'll try to be more anal and less analogous in the future.

The thing about firearms is if you aren't anal about the laws, you'll get anal in the pokey.  

[5th4x4 0]

The thing about firearms is if you aren't anal about the laws, you'll get anal in the pokey.  

Laws are laws.

Opinions are opinions.

And comments are comments.

 

To be anal about the first one is wise.

The be anal about the other two is tedious.

[Howi 0]

I know its kind of a dead topic, sorry for bumping it.  Okay i am from nj but am currently stationed in cali, here it is legal to get an 80% lower machined into a complete lower as long as you do the work your self. Long story short is it legal for me to bring the firearm into nj when i get out of the military. (Everything about the firearm is 100% NJ legal - just no serial numbers) 

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

It would depend upon:

 

1. How well you document the "creation" of this firearm.

2. How big a hard-on a NJ prosecutor has for you when it is discovered in the PRNJ.

3. How big a hard-on a NJ judge has for you in the conduct of your trial, including the admission of your evidence and his instructions to the jury.

4. How lucky do you feel?

[Respect2A 0]

He didn't ask if it was a wise idea, he asked if it was legal. In my opinion it appears to be legal.

[5th4x4 0]

He didn't ask if it was a wise idea, he asked if it was legal. In my opinion it appears to be legal.

 

With all due respect, the op also didn't ask if it is anyones opinion as to whether it appears legal (or not) either. He wants to know if it is.

 

In your case Howi, I would contact someone with legal authority in one of the NJ military bases and pose that question.

If your Army try Ft Dix. If your Marine/Navy try Naval Weapons Station Earl. If your AF try McGuire.

I didn't include a Coastie, since with a screen name such as "Howi", I assume that you are either Army or Marine (although you could also obtain the legality of that from a CG base too, I suppose, so maybe try Air Station Atlantic City) 

They have guys transferring in and out from everywhere, so someone with actually authority at one of those bases could provide you with what you can/can't bring into the state.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I know its kind of a dead topic, sorry for bumping it.  Okay i am from nj but am currently stationed in cali, here it is legal to get an 80% lower machined into a complete lower as long as you do the work your self. Long story short is it legal for me to bring the firearm into nj when i get out of the military. (Everything about the firearm is 100% NJ legal - just no serial numbers) 

 

 

if you are a resident of california then you have to conform to california law

if you later become a NJ resident you may retain all firearms that are NJ legal...

 

if you are currently a california resident and it is legal there... it would be legal to bring the gun into NJ... serial numbers are not a qualifier under NJ law... just know that if you ever get hung up on something they will more than likely give you a hard time for having an "evil black rifle" that is serial numberless.. 

[TulsaJohn 1]

Just engraved a number on it. 00001. Done

[Howi 0]

if you are a resident of california then you have to conform to california law

if you later become a NJ resident you may retain all firearms that are NJ legal...

 

if you are currently a california resident and it is legal there... it would be legal to bring the gun into NJ... serial numbers are not a qualifier under NJ law... just know that if you ever get hung up on something they will more than likely give you a hard time for having an "evil black rifle" that is serial numberless.. 

Thanks vlad exactly what i was looking for and exactly what i thought.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Thanks vlad exactly what i was looking for and exactly what i thought.

The law is the law... And your state of residence determines the gun laws you must follow...

 

Bringing in guns to NJ from states you previously resided in as long as they are nj legal is fine....

 

 

With that said if I ever owned a gun without a serial I would engrave it somewhere.... Something about having an unmarked gun is not appealing to me.... Just in case it was ever stolen or something like that....

[Dr Bocci 0]

Just engraved a number on it. 00001. Done

Was Thinking The Same Thing...

[carguy3j 0]

Just curious.. What would the purpose/advantage be in starting with that 80% chunk of aluminum anyway? Precision machine work, of any kind, is pricey. From a quick google search, the price of so-called "stripped" receivers/lowers are low enough that machining costs would far out way any cost savings from starting with a "blank" . Are there things you could machine into an 80% yourself, that isn't commonly available commercially, Or is it just one of those "I want to do it myself, just because I can" kind of things?

 

I do see the advantages to people buying stamped "kits" that they can fold/bolt together themselves. I guess that applies more to the AK type rifles. There, I see the benefit of being able to buy the parts, for several firearms, without legally buying/documenting ownership of an actual gun. Then, in the event of a SHTF situation, where laws no longer matter, being able to put together a "ghost" gun. I see that being able to be done cheaply, in a garage (folding/riveting,etc..) VS CNC machining for this 80% AR lower.

[carguy3j 0]

Also, just wondering. How hard is it to become a manufacturer, legally, in NJ? Not full scale commercial production, but say someone who wanted to be able to "tinker" and make there own prototypes,etc...

[mikeyjones 88]

Just curious.. What would the purpose/advantage be in starting with that 80% chunk of aluminum anyway? Precision machine work, of any kind, is pricey. From a quick google search, the price of so-called "stripped" receivers/lowers are low enough that machining costs would far out way any cost savings from starting with a "blank" . Are there things you could machine into an 80% yourself, that isn't commonly available commercially, Or is it just one of those "I want to do it myself, just because I can" kind of things?

 

I do see the advantages to people buying stamped "kits" that they can fold/bolt together themselves. I guess that applies more to the AK type rifles. There, I see the benefit of being able to buy the parts, for several firearms, without legally buying/documenting ownership of an actual gun. Then, in the event of a SHTF situation, where laws no longer matter, being able to put together a "ghost" gun. I see that being able to be done cheaply, in a garage (folding/riveting,etc..) VS CNC machining for this 80% AR lower.

You apparently have not done your homework.

 

All that's needed is a drill press. On some of them, the holes are already started.

 

The advantage is not in the price but the fact you built one yourself and it's 100% undocumented.

 

 

As far as becoming a manufacturer in nj, it all depends on your local township. They have to approve anything before you can do anything. Becoming a manufacturer in the eyes of the atf is fairly straightforward and simple. But your municipality might not allow anything like that in their town.

[carguy3j 0]

You apparently have not done your homework.

 

All that's needed is a drill press. On some of them, the holes are already started.

 

The advantage is not in the price but the fact you built one yourself and it's 100% undocumented.

 

 

As far as becoming a manufacturer in nj, it all depends on your local township. They have to approve anything before you can do anything. Becoming a manufacturer in the eyes of the atf is fairly straightforward and simple. But your municipality might not allow anything like that in their town.

Honestly, I'm a noob. I have never touched an AR, or even seen one in person. The last time I fired a gun was probably around 10 years ago. (12ga, .410 shotguns and a .30-.30, all belonging to friends, and various rented pistols, at the Sunset range in PA). The prospect of inheriting my grandfathers old Enfield rifle, coupled with a lack of employment to otherwise occupy my time, has sparked an increased interest over the last couple months. I've been spending WAY too much time on the internet reading various gun related stuff. Unfortunately, I don't see having the financial means to participate any time soon. :-( Hell, I can't even spare the funds to get an FPID right now.

 

All the talk of "hunk of aluminum" had me thinking it needed MUCH more work to make functional then just a few holes drilled. As far being undocumented, wouldn't a private person-to-person deal, at least on a long gun, be the same? Particularly if you bought it out of state, privately, in a state that doesn't require documentation of the those sales?

 

As far as the manufacturing, I thought it would be much more complicated than that. It sounds like as long as you live/have a shop in a more rural/gun friendly area, it wouldn't be too hard.... Again, I'm broke right now, nor do I have nearly enough knowledge to go making guns just yet; but I have come up with some really interesting ideas I'd like to explore someday. Some, would be fairly "normal", and I think would be commercially successful.  Some, are "creative" ways around various bans/regulations- particularly one which I think would allow the semi-auto guys to keep their threaded barrels w/o pinning/welding OR allow the retention of a collapsible stock. Basically, getting you one more "evil" feature. I think it would be semi - border line, but it appears it would meet the letter of the law.Also something that could make a ton of money in NJ (and maybe CA/NY) Other ideas would be just plain crazy - but legal...... (.50BMG Gatling gun anyone???)

[MidwestPX 172]

With an 80% lower, the firearm's existence is undocumented.  With the long gun example, there's a record of it being made and sold.  The chain of custody could break when sold private party if the seller doesn't keep the buyer's info.

[alowerlevel 77]

All the talk of "hunk of aluminum" had me thinking it needed MUCH more work to make functional then just a few holes drilled. As far being undocumented, wouldn't a private person-to-person deal, at least on a long gun, be the same? Particularly if you bought it out of state, privately, in a state that doesn't require documentation of the those sales?

 

 

Heres a video of a guy finishing one, its kinda long but it shows you whats involved  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKz2sLJUvGU

[70gto 142]

Im not an attorney, but I think you can't finish one in NJ. If you made it elsewhere in another state where you can legally make one yourself, then I believe you can legally possess one here, but I understand you should also have your own type of identifying mark on it some where.

[7-3-2 9]

With all due respect, the op also didn't ask if it is anyones opinion as to whether it appears legal (or not) either. He wants to know if it is.

 

In your case Howi, I would contact someone with legal authority in one of the NJ military bases and pose that question.

If your Army try Ft Dix. If your Marine/Navy try Naval Weapons Station Earl. If your AF try McGuire.

I didn't include a Coastie, since with a screen name such as "Howi", I assume that you are either Army or Marine (although you could also obtain the legality of that from a CG base too, I suppose, so maybe try Air Station Atlantic City) 

They have guys transferring in and out from everywhere, so someone with actually authority at one of those bases could provide you with what you can/can't bring into the state.

Yeah, I would rather not worry about opinion. Honestly, if a law is being debated by two different perspectives then I would much rather stay on the side of caution until PROVEN otherwise.