Your thoughts on Edward Snowden

[rauchman 3]

I think the guy is a hero who, unfortunately, is now a political pawn.

 

I know many disparage the guy for breaking his oath.  I disagree.  He had a greater responsibility to let the country/world know how far the NSA has overreached.  He's now on the run, taking refuge in Russia of all places.

 

I find it absolutely sickening how out of control the NSA is and thank God for Snowden's revelations.  Hopefully, the public will start pushing back as a result.

[olderguy 0]

The public is sleeping, and when they wake up it will be time for American Idol to absorb their "thought processes"

[peter679 0]

Two ways of looking at it really, 1 being that when you have a security clearance you have an obligation, if you break that obligation you are to prosecuted.  I agree 100% with that, I have had several TS+ clearances and was well aware of the consequences if I did what he did, as was he.  Right or Wrong, moral or not, if it is classified or secret/top secret etc you are NOT to divulge what you have seen.  So that being said, he should be punished by the letter of the law.

 

Now, I personally believe that if you think the NSA is not listening you're a fool.. if you think nobody's paying attention you're nieve.  We are at a higher state of security right now and I'm ok with them listening for the right reasons, watching with a purpose and trust me when I say, there are more than enemies in this country trying get information and get the upper hand.

 

If they overstep then yeah they should be slapped down hard and he tried to show that, and well now he's hiding in Russia. 

 

People that violate their clearances spend time in prison... right or wrong he should be held the same way.  I'm not saying what the NSA does is right either.

 

-P

[RubberBullets 65]

True...American...Patriot

 

The govt is routinely screwing its people. Without people like him, the veil over our eyes would never be lifted.

 

Sent from my SCH-I545

 

 

[NicePants 58]

One of the only patriots left.

[db1775 4]

Hero.

 

I don't really care about the tactical nuances involved here concerning the fact that there needs to be some level of surveillance. These types of arguments become so jargonized with the final comment being something like: "I know security issues, you don't. Shut up and thank me for protecting you."

 

The core facts here are these:

 

1) Every country has enemies. Most of the time these enemies are proximal, they are enemies because they are close to each other geographically and are competing over borders or resources in their vicinity. We have enemies because we are on top of the food chain and let everyone know it. When you get involved in other people's business, rightly or wrongly, eventually it is going to come back on you. I am NOT saying that we got what we deserved, I'm saying that the gov't using the war on terror as an excuse to totally obliterate the 4th amendment and all pretense to privacy in an effort to supposedly combat an evil that THEY created/exacerbated/poked in the eye is bullsh*t. 

 

2) Snowden's actions laid bare, officially, for everyone exactly what the gov't is doing to us, for all of us idiots who are foolish and naive to think that the gov't should abide by the constitution. Eleven years is way too long for a Republic to fight a war. What the gov't is doing is not representative of a constitutional republic. So, while we all knew what the NSA was doing, we could choose to ignore it. Now we cannot, and for that he is indeed a Hero.

 

So, let's make a choice - Surveillance State where are are all protected, or what the Founders intended where we take some degree of risk in walking out the door every morning. 

[voyager9 3,434]

He did the right thing.. but that doesn't mean he shouldn't face consequences.    He broke the law and should be charged accordingly.  Though I'm not sure how the Whistleblower protections don't come into pay here..

 

The problem, really.. is that people are talking about Snowden more than they are the INFORMATION that Snowden disclosed.  Focusing the attention on the individual deflects (and minimizes) from everything he took the risk to expose.

[W2MC 1,699]

My thoughts on Edward Snowden?  He's a media whore who should be rotting in prison in the cell next to Jonathan Pollard.

 

Snowden didn't accidentally stumble into the info he stole.  He admitted he took the job with Booz Allen SPECIFICALLY to gather the information he divulged.  He's not a "patriot"; he's a traitor of the lowest form.

 

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1268209/snowden-sought-booz-allen-job-gather-evidence-nsa-surveillance

[gunguy1960 2]

Patriot. He exposed government actions against U.S. citizens which violate the Constitution. These are massive and ongoing. Contrast him with private manning who supplied classified military documents in a time of war to someone who posted them for all to see which no doubt compromised our contacts and soldiers, thats a traitor. Snowden exposed a program not aimed at international terrorism but on creating a permanent record of everything that every American says and does. The government didnt stop Boston because its focus is completely off track and focused on patriots.

[10X 3,296]

I think it will be interesting to see how history judges Snowden.    I've not made up my own mind yet--I think it's too soon to have perspective.   I think the US has to pursue, and has to attempt to prosecute him; that he violated the law seems clear.  However, the government violated/circumvented the law as well, and I'm glad we now know more about that.  And I'm rather pissed about what the government was up to.

 

I think Snowden followed his conscience; he knew there would be life-altering repercussions, which he was prepared to accept, and he wasn't looking for financial gain, nor particularly interested in the fame or infamy that resulted from his actions. 

 

One of the things that makes both law enforcement and national security hard--by design--are the rather severe restrictions that we the American people have chosen to place on the enforcers in order to preserve some of our freedoms.   Would the massive, secret collection and analysis of phone and internet data make it easier to catch terrorists?   Almost certainly.   Would allowing warrentless searches of homes, cars, and offices result in more criminals/terrorists being caught?  Almost certainly.   Would giving the local police departments the right to tap phones at will and without judicial oversight make their work easier?   Almost certainly.

 

Do we want this?   Certainly not.

[rauchman 3]

Excellent discussion.  Thanks all!

[RubberBullets 65]

My thoughts on Edward Snowden?  He's a media whore who should be rotting in prison in the cell next to Jonathan Pollard.

 

Snowden didn't accidentally stumble into the info he stole.  He admitted he took the job with Booz Allen SPECIFICALLY to gather the information he divulged.  He's not a "patriot"; he's a traitor of the lowest form.

 

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1268209/snowden-sought-booz-allen-job-gather-evidence-nsa-surveillance

He didnt look to divulge state secrets to intentionally harm the people in which the govt serves. I dont give a flying F if he felt there was wrong doing and sought it out through his abilities. The fact that he purposefully withheld specific damaging info that would harm individuals speaks volumes even over the albeit well intentioned bradley(chelsea?) manning. If our government is trampling ALLLLLLLL over our constitutional rights.. I DEMAND accountability on a federal level, not shit on the messenger that brought these misdealings to light.

 

Why the hell isnt Clapper sitting behind bars for Perjury? I bet McCarthy would have had that shit bag locked up if his tie was red.

[PeteF 1,044]

My thoughts on Edward Snowden?  He's a media whore who should be rotting in prison in the cell next to Jonathan Pollard.

 

Snowden didn't accidentally stumble into the info he stole.  He admitted he took the job with Booz Allen SPECIFICALLY to gather the information he divulged.  He's not a "patriot"; he's a traitor of the lowest form.

 

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1268209/snowden-sought-booz-allen-job-gather-evidence-nsa-surveillance

 

So I guess a cop investigating a murder is a traitor also?  The gov broke the law and got called on it.

[NJKen 23]

When he first told us that we where being spied on...patriot

When he ran to china and then russia with all the secrets they dont need to know...TRAITOR

Ken

[greatgunstatenj 32]

When he first told us that we where being spied on...patriot

When he ran to china and then russia with all the secrets they dont need to know...TRAITOR

Ken

If he had stayed here he would have "disappeared". And just because he ran to China then Russia doesn't mean he shared all of those documents with them. He has been very meticulous about reviewing everything that he has released according to the journalists working with him. 

 

Personally, I think he is a Patriot. Our government has been operating outside of the law (Constitution) for a long time and someone finally called them on it. I always wonder why more people don't. Same with corporations that do wrong, how do people just sit by and watch this stuff happen and never speak out? Baffles my mind. 

 

I read some mention of punishing him, whistleblower, etc. That's all nonsense in my opinion. Whistleblowers are not tolerated and face retaliation. Had this guy gone to his superiors or followed whatever chain required for whistleblower protection this would have been swept under the rug and we would all know Ed Snowden by his obituary following a single car accident. 

[db1775 4]

When he first told us that we where being spied on...patriot

When he ran to china and then russia with all the secrets they dont need to know...TRAITOR

Ken

 

This was my initial thought as well when the story broke. Why would an innocent man run to the communists?

 

However, I realized that the real traitors are the people running the show in this country. Anything our enemies can get from the computers that Snowden took with him pale in comparison to the utter treason that has been perpetrated by our own government over the past 20 years in restructuring our economy to become China's market. They've sold out the country with their borrowing & spending. The treason started back in the 90s when Clinton approved transferring to the ChiComs all kinds of highly sensitive missile technology. 

 

Whatever technical "treason" that Snowden may have committed, it is nothing compared to what the Executive level of this country has done to us.

 

I fully subscribe to Mark Twain's adage: Loyalty to the Country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it.

 

Do you think it has deserved it lately?

[RubberBullets 65]

When he first told us that we where being spied on...patriot

When he ran to china and then russia with all the secrets they dont need to know...TRAITOR

Ken

This guy stays in the states and tells all like the true patriot you describe, by his second sentence he gets bound,gagged, and tortured for having the audacity on being a rat.

 

Why WOULDNT he go to the ONLY two super powers defiant enough to say no to the US's demands for extradition. His moves were highly intelligent and have allowed him to be free long enough to continue to expose our own govts wrong doings. I hope history treats him with the respect for the Americab people that he deserves.

 

Sent from my SCH-I545

 

 

[Pythagoras 2]

I don't care what secret laws he technically broke*. He blew the whistle on our government's rampant violation of the SUPREME law of the land. Patriot.

 

 

* The secret 'laws' he broke are null and void anyway pursuant to Marbury v Madison

[rich r 0]

He's a Hero and a Patriot. I keep thinking of what a scumhole Washington,DC is. Filled with vipers and filth, the lot of them.

r

[SgtToadette 59]

I think we, as American citizens, are better off knowing what he revealed than having it remain secret.

[carguy3j 0]

I don't care what secret laws he technically broke*. He blew the whistle on our government's rampant violation of the SUPREME law of the land. Patriot.

 

 

* The secret 'laws' he broke are null and void anyway pursuant to Marbury v Madison

 

I think we, as American citizens, are better off knowing what he revealed than having it remain secret.

^^^^^ Agreed

 

As far as him violating any oath related to Top Secret clearances, just as a soldier is not required to follow unlawful orders, he can not be compelled to observe an oath to maintain the secrecy of ongoing crimes. Anything he MAY have revealed to the Russians or Chinese  a.) may have been something he had to do for his own safety, and b.) would never have happened if our government didn't feel the need to run him off under threat of serious charges, or maybe even a "mysterious" death. O'Bummer should grant him an immediate preemptive pardon, as well as a public guarantee of his safety and freedom upon his return. Maybe even give him a high ranking job as an "auditor" of sorts, to keep an eye on various agencies and make sure they are following the law. Or just let him go back to a normal life, if he so chooses.

[RUTGERS95 890]

his oath is to America first and any organization second

 

Kid is a Goddamned hero as far as I'm concerned.  A wacky dude but a hero..........

[mipafox 438]

There are only two real threats to our Nation.

 

1. Russia - potential threat our government, including the NSA, does nothing about.

 

2. Our government, which is actively destroying our Constitution and nation for real, and is completely lawless and totalitarian. Including the NSA.

 

I am personally concerned about children drowning. More people drown each year than every American ever killed by "terrorists" both inside and outside our country, everywhere, in the history of ever. Yet we spend about a trillion dollars a year on "terrorists," which apparently means US citizens that register to vote, believe in God, own guns, or don't receive food stamps. In other words, nearly half of us.

 

I've seen this movie before, I know how it ends.

 

My only concern is that the Egyptians and the Israelis and the South Koreans will laugh and mock us when we realize we have to turn to outside help in establishing a Constitutional Republic here.

 

I'd take Chinese ownership of our nation under a Chinese-Hong Kong type arrangement this very night before choosing to wake up tomorrow to another day of the totalitarian oppression and governmental lawlessness we have here.

 

 

[DeerSlayer 241]

Couldn't have said it better, thanks Ron...

 

Sent using Tapatalk 2

 

[Hooligan 0]

The colonists who fought against the brits were technically traitors, too.  He broke the internal rules and the law, but it may be for the best.  I'm honstly still not sure how I feel about it all.

[SgtToadette 59]

Couldn't have said it better, thanks Ron...

 

I don't agree with Ron Paul on everything, but he nailed this one.

[sof 0]

 

I think it will be interesting to see how history judges Snowden.    I've not made up my own mind yet--I think it's too soon to have perspective.   I think the US has to pursue, and has to attempt to prosecute him; that he violated the law seems clear.  However, the government violated/circumvented the law as well, and I'm glad we now know more about that.  And I'm rather pissed about what the government was up to.

 

I think Snowden followed his conscience; he knew there would be life-altering repercussions, which he was prepared to accept, and he wasn't looking for financial gain, nor particularly interested in the fame or infamy that resulted from his actions. 

 

One of the things that makes both law enforcement and national security hard--by design--are the rather severe restrictions that we the American people have chosen to place on the enforcers in order to preserve some of our freedoms.   Would the massive, secret collection and analysis of phone and internet data make it easier to catch terrorists?   Almost certainly.   Would allowing warrentless searches of homes, cars, and offices result in more criminals/terrorists being caught?  Almost certainly.   Would giving the local police departments the right to tap phones at will and without judicial oversight make their work easier?   Almost certainly.

 

Do we want this?   Certainly not.

 

Not sure about following his conscience just yet but that is a really good thoughtful post.

[mikka1 2]

W2MC, fully agree, can't say better!

IMO, he is nothing even close to being called a hero or a patriot, just a scumbag willing to get as much media attention as he can now (sorry if that sounds rude, that's just what I think). It's just easily seen by the portions of information he is revealing, the way how he does that (he clearly doesn't care about the nature of what he's showing, he only cares about keeping as much noise as possible around him) and the whole media coverage he has been getting while he was (presumably) sitting in the transit area of Moscow airport.

Being a Russian national by birth myself and American resident by choice I actually find it particularly insulting how he plays the strings of lifelong tension between two countries just to benefit by himself out of that. 

[10X 3,296]

I just watched the Snowden interview on NBC.    I was impressed.    I'd previously been a bit more on the fence about the appropriateness of his actions, but I found his arguments rational, well-reasoned, and compelling.  He came out with a couple of quotes that deserve to be carved into government buildings in Washington.  If you didn't watch, and it turns up for on-demand viewing (it's not up, at this time), I recommend taking the time to watch.

[Joe P. 4]

i'll save my praise for this guy Snowden when more comes out about the nature of his intentions. i do not think he set out to free the American people from the NSA's intrusions however , i think he was a little more self-serving in his actions. As of now he has done US ALL a great service in releasing this info, but to then run to America's foes he becomes a traitor IMHO.  What other info does he have that he did not share with the media, maybe he saved some nuggets for admission to China and Russia .. they just don't let you hang around because your a nice guy, you need a golden ticket.

 

we'll see