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Howard

No FID needed to handle gun at gun store!

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RTSP posted this on their Facebook page, thought I would share here:

 

Since our opening many customers at RTSP have questioned the "state required policy" of having a NJ Firearms ID Card present when showing a gun. This has been an inconvenience to both RTSP and our customers.

SO, we did a little digging and also contacted the NJ State Police. There is NO law or statute on the books that requires a resident to posses an FID Card in order to handle a firearm at a range or gunstore. ...

Therefore, effective immediately, RTSP will no longer require this card when showing a firearm. We will still require some form of identification...ie..Drivers license, passport or yes, that little yellow ID card.

We hope this alleviates some of the inconvenience for those that either forget their FID's or are potential new gun owners doing some gun buying research!!

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Never been to a gun store in North Jersey that didn't ask for the FID to handle a gun.  I always assumed it was a combination of ultra caution by the dealer mixed in with a clever way to avoid spending time with a customer who doesn't have documentation in order to buy.

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Never been to a gun store in North Jersey that didn't ask for the FID to handle a gun.  I always assumed it was a combination of ultra caution by the dealer mixed in with a clever way to avoid spending time with a customer who doesn't have documentation in order to buy.

 

Interesting observation.  Yes, that's been my experience as well with every gun store I've been to in north Jersey.

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Never been to a gun store in North Jersey that didn't ask for the FID to handle a gun.  I always assumed it was a combination of ultra caution by the dealer mixed in with a clever way to avoid spending time with a customer who doesn't have documentation in order to buy.

 

I am glad they ask everyone for ID. Just think.  If you look like a clean cut guy, the salesperson would likely just give you the pistol.  Right behind him would be a shady looking dude asking to see the same pistol.  What can the salesperson say, hey buddy to the latter, let me see your FID if you have one?

 

By asking fir FID 100% of the time, salespeople will never be accused of discriminating in the name of safety.

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I am glad they ask everyone for ID. Just think.  If you look like a clean cut guy, the salesperson would likely just give you the pistol.  Right behind him would be a shady looking dude asking to see the same pistol.  What can the salesperson say, hey buddy to the latter, let me see your FID if you have one?

 

By asking fir FID 100% of the time, salespeople will never be accused of discriminating in the name of safety.

 

Safety? It's just an unloaded gun. It's not like they're giving you a magazine loaded with hollow points all ready to go with it. 

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So much fail here.

 

First, this shop is congratulating themselves for making up a fake legal requirement and then correcting it.  There never was a legal requirement for a gun shop to check an FPID and there never was a good reason for anyone to believe so in the first place. Just another insidious gunshop myth like "hollowpoints are illegal."

 

Second, someone here actually thinks it's a good policy in the name of "safety?"  In the rest of America people would laugh at the idea of an FPID in the first place.  When was the last time you heard of someone shooting up a gun shop with a gun from the display case?  You should worry more about getting hit by lightning.

 

People, please stop this endless sense of self loathing and guilt over being a firearm owner.  Some of you are letting the anti gun paranoia of our shitstain state to get into your heads.  Quit it.

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So much fail here.

 

First, this shop is congratulating themselves for making up a fake legal requirement and then correcting it.  There never was a legal requirement for a gun shop to check an FPID and there never was a good reason for anyone to believe so in the first place. Just another insidious gunshop myth like "hollowpoints are illegal."

 

Second, someone here actually thinks it's a good policy in the name of "safety?"  In the rest of America people would laugh at the idea of an FPID in the first place.  When was the last time you heard of someone shooting up a gun shop with a gun from the display case?  You should worry more about getting hit by lightning.

 

People, please stop this endless sense of self loathing and guilt over being a firearm owner.  Some of you are letting the anti gun paranoia of our shitstain state to get into your heads.  Quit it.

I must agree...We celebrate the passing of what was and still remains a questionable and obtrusive myth most likely started by some lazy or paranoid gun shop owner years before and pat our selves on the back for being so clever and forward thinking.....Only in New Jersey.

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It is people like you Lorenzo and you to Duppie that burn my ass! Let me tell you this, we took a big leap of faith to open this shop in this State and have strived to do it correctly and follow all the rules as they were relayed to us by the ATF and NJSP, and yes that was what we were told by the State Police Firearms Unit when they did our inspection.  So 20 months into it, with a 2 million dollar expansion going on, we started to question the practice.  We contacted every authority that we could find, spent countless hours calling around to other dealers, all this so as to insure that WE were not putting OUR FFL in jeopardy, but at the same time trying to do a service to our customers. This isn't about congratulatory back patting, not at all, this is about taking the myth and shattering it, taking the balls to put it out there for all to see, every gun shop in NJ, every NJSP authority that will read it that is what makes it different and just.  Shame on you, very classless!!!

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Well said Peter, and that is why I reposted the information here, to let people be informed and understand that this was a myth.  Its just like the one you hear that it is illegal to have a loaded mag in your ammo bag - another false understanding of the law.

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It is people like you Lorenzo and you to Duppie that burn my ass! Let me tell you this, we took a big leap of faith to open this shop in this State and have strived to do it correctly and follow all the rules as they were relayed to us by the ATF and NJSP, and yes that was what we were told by the State Police Firearms Unit when they did our inspection.  So 20 months into it, with a 2 million dollar expansion going on, we started to question the practice.  We contacted every authority that we could find, spent countless hours calling around to other dealers, all this so as to insure that WE were not putting OUR FFL in jeopardy, but at the same time trying to do a service to our customers. This isn't about congratulatory back patting, not at all, this is about taking the myth and shattering it, taking the balls to put it out there for all to see, every gun shop in NJ, every NJSP authority that will read it that is what makes it different and just.  Shame on you, very classless!!!

What I see as "classless" is RTSP abandoning NJGF and it's members in the early days,recognizing intense competition was on the horizon,ingratiating your selves with a "my bad" and now attempting to portraying RTSP as some pillar of the shooting community by dropping what we all knew was an illegal procedure....... Really?

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Dropping is a Stretch! Being besieged by nonsensical posts that had no good intention or helpful benefit to anyone is what drove us away.  This is not about you Duppie or me, this is about trying to make this State better and stronger.  I saw and still see nothing but contempt and ill will towards us on this forum and a majority of it is from people that have never even stepped foot in our shop.  You have your opinion on things and voice them very eloquently, well we have our opinions to and have nothing to hide, we wear our feelings on our sleeves and will continue to be a voice of reason in this pathetic State. 

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Thanks for the post Howard.

Just a question that could really resolve this for everyone beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

Is it or can it be documented from the NJSP or whomever said the law/rule doesn't exist?

 

That would really put an end to this issue. This nonsense has been going on for decades it seems.

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

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Just a question that could really resolve this for everyone beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

Is it or can it be documented from the NJSP or whomever said the law/rule doesn't exist?

 

That would really put an end to this issue. This nonsense has been going on for decades it seems.

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

In all the threads on this very subject none of the learned Gentlemen on this forum to my knowledge has been able to find any such law. Now take that any way you will but in my experience if it existed it would have been posted by someone.

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Further, I think this practice started long long ago. Not for legal reasons. I think it was probably put in place as a common practice to keep someone from bolting with a gun.

 

I recall years ago that most places didn't want to just see an ID, being just a DL or FID. (You use to be able to just use a DL). The clerk use to take your card and put it behind the counter. Then return it when you were done.

 

Over the years this practice deviated and ended up being thought of as a legal procedure. Similarly like when stories are told over time, a small fish on a line turns into a massive shark that caught the ears of every listener. Things just get misconstrued. The PD may have all recalled this and it just kept getting strung along over the years as well as shop owners.

 

There are probably many similar issues we don't know about that were a thing of the past. Not to go off topic, but back in the late 70's way before waiting periods, our town instituted their own cooling off period. My chief called it just that. In fact, it was a "10 day cooling off period"... But mostly if it were your first handgun. Look where we are today with that concept.

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

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In all the threads on this very subject none of the learned Gentlemen on this forum to my knowledge has been able to find any such law. Now take that any way you will but in my experience if it existed it would have been posted by someone.

Maybe, but not if it weren't pursued aggressively. So let's pursue it. If any FFL here could get a definitive answer documented, we'd be all good to go.

 

Regardless of how many times it's been brought up, I seriously think it just fell by the wayside in the past. Let's get it documented. Period!

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

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Maybe, but not if it weren't pursued aggressively. So let's pursue it. If any FFL here could get a definitive answer documented, we'd be all good to go.

 

Regardless of how many times it's been brought up, I seriously think it just fell by the wayside in the past. Let's get it documented. Period!

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

You've been around as long as I have .....have you known vladtepes,Mr Bob or any of the rest NOT to pursue aggressively especially the amount of times this topic has arisen? you can't document a law or an exception to that law if the law did not exist in the first place....

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Peter,

 

You're right, I should have been less snarky in my response.  That was uncalled for.

 

Still, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the people that manage a gun shop to understand this state's firearm laws accurately, to understand the difference between fact and fiction, and to not spread disinformation.  This states gun laws are terrible enough without embellishing them with myth and bad assumptions.

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They are not FFLs to my knowledge. The challenge I put forth is to get the SP that said it's not so, to bring forth a document. I could care less if it's written law or not. Let an authority be the responsible party and produce "a" document. That is all.

 

BTW, why the frack you acting aggressive here? If this whole subject pisses you off, don't partake in it. Cause frankly, I don't give a shite... Anyone asking me for any form of ID to see a weapon does not phase me. Hardest part s digging it out of my wallet which is no big deal either.

 

In my one post, I gave you what, where and why I think this started. Not a law, just a practice. Take it or leave it! I spoke my peace, now I'm done if this thread is going belly up. I see no need for this bs... You people are trifling over nothing.

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

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They are not FFLs to my knowledge. The challenge I put forth is to get the SP that said it's not so, to bring forth a document. I could care less if it's written law or not. Let an authority be the responsible party and produce "a" document. That is all.

 

BTW, why the frack you acting aggressive here? If this whole subject pisses you off, don't partake in it. Cause frankly, I don't give a shite... Anyone asking me for any form of ID to see a weapon does not phase me. Hardest part s digging it out of my wallet which is no big deal either.

 

In my one post, I gave you what, where and why I think this started. Not a law, just a practice. Take it or leave it! I spoke my peace, now I'm done if this thread is going belly up. I see no need for this bs... You people are trifling over nothing.

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

I had no intention of appearing aggressive to you and if it came across as such, I apologize....We do however have FFL's as long time participating members of the forum and even they could not find such a stipulation, so again finding documentation from the state saying "it's all good" may indeed be difficult if not impossible to source.

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