No FID needed to handle gun at gun store!

[bhunted 887]

And that is the reason I asked RTSP to try get a document in writing stating such from the authority saying it's not necessary. Right now, they have come closest to this dilemma... If they can get it in written format, that will put the weight on the SPs shoulders and solve the age old question.

 

I still believe in what I wrote that it evolved out of a common practice decades ago.

 

 

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[RTSP1 67]

Lorenzo, its all good.  As far as understanding the many laws, hell the people that enforce them don't know them.  I was a cop for 20 years (hold the jokes) I was surprised how much I DIDNT know about the laws in NJ, muzzle breaks, renting a gun, collapsable stock lengths, pinning of breaks, welding of breaks, mag capacities the list goes on and on. They do not teach these things to cops, it is just not done.  There is a learning curve in any business and we are trying to do it right and unfortunately or fortunately, we use social media to help us learn. I rely on guys like you (good feedback or negative) and GT, Howard, Dman, Chris327, older guy, rizzo and all of the forum faithful to help us build the business and grow as a formidable force in New Jersey to fight the BS. 

[RTSP1 67]

bHunt, just called the SP.  They said there is nothing in writing and that they do not usually put things on paper that are not laws and that they would call me back when the LT gets in.  WE WILL SEE.

[Sell682 1]

Great job RTSP... finally some progress on clarifying this great NJ myth...

 

However, personally I am one of those who rather ensure someone has an FID before a sales person shows them a gun. I am sure we will all start to complain when a group of old enough teens (without an FID) will bombard the gun counter to fondle the guns and take a sales rep away from an individual with an FID and Permit in hand waiting to actually purchase one. Maybe then we will consider our FID a VIP card...

[ryan_j 0]

I have always wondered why this was the observed rule.

 

I also think that for gun rentals to use at the range no FID should be required. What I do wonder though is how do people buy ammo to shoot in the rented gun without a FID?

[Respect2A 0]

I said in a post before that bullzeye tactical does the same thing and for what it's worth he said the State Police told him that too.

 

The problem is that people believe the police without hesitation. The second problem is the cops aren't familiar with the laws.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I'm an Old Fudd.  Started shooting with the Dad 44 years ago.  Used to go to K-Mart and buy a brick of .22's off the shelf for $3.99 when I was old enough to carry it out to the waiting car without dropping it!

 

It always has been a BS requirement (showing NJFID) at SOME stores scared of their own shadow.  I think it started around the post-Vietnam era when crime shot up.  Around the time when I bought my first hand gun at 18 yrs. old (in the last century).  Maybe even potentially racist in its' original intent?  Asking to "see it in writing" (what you want John) is like asking for the NJSP to write War and Peace about every other possible way to NOT break a law.  In NJ, the Laws are written in a deliberate attempt to confuse the general populous:  EVERYTHING about Firearms possession is ILLEGAL, and firearms in NJ exist only through Exemptions and Exceptions, as we all know (or SHOULD!).

 

Asking for the NJSP Firearms Unit to write a document outlining why something isn't illegal completely goes against the grain.  Cops aren't "wired" that way!  It's a giant Brain Fart waiting to happen.  You might as well ask them why the sky is blue and why it's NOT illegal for the sky to stay up there and not fall on Chicken Little's head!  For the Firearms Unit is much too busy worrying about Gamo Snipers using a Whisper Assault Pellet Rifle that you can still buy off the shelf at Cabela's in REAL AMERICA!

 

And since when is an un-elected Richard Cranium at the Firearms Unit able to "make Law" for the peasants?  I call BS, and it would never pass muster in a Superior Court of Appeals!

 

So we're all going to wait with baited breath for the same A-Hole to give AN OPINION of what he THINKS the law ought to be??  We're ALL SO SCREWED that we don't even KNOW it.

 

You "Kids" (and that includes those OTJ or that put their "20" in) better wise the F up!

 

And YES, I illustrate absurdity by being absurd....it's designed to make you all THINK!

 

Dave

Bought .22's when I was 12

[Blacksmythe 71]

Myth Busters NJ gun law edition would take a year to do.

[RTSP1 67]

ooook, I'm done on this topic. smdh

[bhunted 887]

bHunt, just called the SP. They said there is nothing in writing and that they do not usually put things on paper that are not laws and that they would call me back when the LT gets in. WE WILL SEE.

Thanks man... Appreciate your efforts.

 

 

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[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Seriously, WTF!?  One NJ shop has the balls to advocate for its customers and challenge something that is "standard" both by practice of other shops and as advised by the NJSP and they get a verbal lashing for it?

 

If y'all are so worked up about the FID "requirement", then go hash it out with the other shops that still follow the practice.  RTSP is making a postive change and you're beating them up on it!?

 

RTSP - you guys run a class act. I have always been treated well when I visit your range.  I'm going to make it a point to buy a few things next time I'm in. 

[bhunted 887]

Dave, without making this a cop thrashing thread, I understand you completely.

I've experienced some of the SP create laws/rules on the fly. Seen it with my own eyes. So my thought's, "if you create crap on the fly, then put your pen where your mouth is".... Let the burden of proof fall on them.

 

Either way, this whole thing was made into a mountain from a mole hill. In other words, who gives a crap. If you feel slighted because you are requested to produce a card, oh well.... Get over it. It's not the worse thing we are up against. Waste the energy elsewhere where needed.

 

 

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[Duppie 73]

Seriously, WTF!?  One NJ shop has the balls to advocate for its customers and challenge something that is "standard" both by practice of other shops and as advised by the NJSP and they get a verbal lashing for it?

 

If y'all are so worked up about the FID "requirement", then go hash it out with the other shops that still follow the practice.  RTSP is making a postive change and you're beating them up on it!?

 

RTSP - you guys run a class act. I have always been treated well when I visit your range.  I'm going to make it a point to buy a few things next time I'm in. 

That "Advocation" by RTSP by their own admission took 1 call to the State Police who indicated that there was "nothing is in writing and they don't usually put things on paper that are not laws" but this only after ...and again I quote...."we contacted every authority we could find,spent countless hours calling around to other dealers". I belabor the point only because the majority of us already knew this to be the case without our needing an Advocate however noble  they need to appear.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Maybe RTSP engaged in hyperbole as to how much effort they put in, maybe they didn't.  Fact remains - they advocated for a change which no other "storefront" FFL that I know of can be bothered to do.

[BrianN 0]

Never been to a gun store in North Jersey that didn't ask for the FID to handle a gun.  I always assumed it was a combination of ultra caution by the dealer mixed in with a clever way to avoid spending time with a customer who doesn't have documentation in order to buy.

 

This is what I always thought it was too

[RTSP1 67]

Duppie to that last point, it is not your FFL on the line if something goes south.  

[kman 56]

Willing ti bet that now it has come to their attention a FID requirement will be written into the administrative code at the next revision.

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4

 

 

[Duppie 73]

Duppie to that last point, it is not your FFL on the line if something goes south.  

I will agree and concede the point.....I do wish RTSP all success and will state I'm on record as having  defended you several times on this very forum in the past, so mine is not a vendetta but simply an attempt to show how asinine our laws are and how conditioned to following the herd mentality we've become.

[RTSP1 67]

agreed

[maintenanceguy 510]

I am glad they ask everyone for ID. Just think.  If you look like a clean cut guy, the salesperson would likely just give you the pistol.  Right behind him would be a shady looking dude asking to see the same pistol.  What can the salesperson say, hey buddy to the latter, let me see your FID if you have one?

 

By asking fir FID 100% of the time, salespeople will never be accused of discriminating in the name of safety.

 

I believe business owners have the right to run their business any way they choose.  If they require you to stand on your head and fart the theme to the Simpson's before you can hold a gun, that's fine with me. 

 

But...unless the shady looking dude behind you has lost his constitutional rights through due process, I think he gets to not only hold a gun but keep and bear one uninfringed, that means without having to have an FID, no matter how shady he may look.  But that's just me.

[68chris 20]

A FID card is not needed to buy a handgun in NJ, so therefore a FID card is not needed to handle a handgun in a NJ gunstore.

[bhunted 887]

A FID card is not needed to buy a handgun in NJ, so therefore a FID card is not needed to handle a handgun in a NJ gunstore.

Hmmmmm.... Really?

 

 

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[68chris 20]

really

[bhunted 887]

Trying buying handgun ammo without one.

 

 

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[68chris 20]

you can do that too when you buy your gun

[bhunted 887]

you can do that too the same day you buy your gun

Ya better buy a million rounds then for that one shot deal. Wouldn't want ya to run out.

 

 

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[68chris 20]

yes, the future purchase of ammo would prove difficult without the fid.

but the fact remains, you can purchase the handgun and ammo without the fid.

[bhunted 887]

yes, the future purchase of ammo would prove difficult without the fid.

but the fact remains, you can purchase the handgun and ammo without the fid.

You realize that is not the norm, nor reality? So, who cares.

 

 

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[68chris 20]

I thought it would be relevant to this particular topic regarding the handling a handgun in gunstore without a FID

[Contrvlr 17]

Probably has something to do with the fact that your FPID number is on the P2P when it is issued