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The end of airport firearms transport?

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So basically it appears that things are relatively reasonable at newark airport now. Good. Still gonna be prepared in case someone in the PAPD decides to change their policy and procedure, which can happen at any time without notice.

 

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Yeah I'm optimistic but cautious. That said my next trip out of EWR may involve a gun training class.

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You can shoot outdoors in Jersey without it being an "official" range. I would guess you can in every state. Local ordinances vary, of course.

 

 

It's different in the East. Pennsylvania has more people in the field on opening day of Deer Rifle than any other state has any day of the year. Also the highest percentage of the population in the field hunting that day than any day in any other state. Outside of the Philly area the majority of schools are closed and many businesses close as well.

 

But PA is not a huge hunting destination for people from other states.

 

Yes, PA always has a huge turnout. Other states like Michigan boasted about 750,000 this past season, Wisconsin about 615,000. PA I believe was about 750,000 this past season. New York used to be up there as well for years (they sold more than 849,000 big game licenses in 2008/2009) but this state has seen a big decline in the last few years. PA draws non-residents from NJ, DE, NY, OH. It's an easy drive. I went every year for years starting in '81 to a camp with about ten other guys from Jersey. Every state has seen hunter numbers lessen. PA has seen the same trend as other states in the last ten years; less hunters, less non-res. hunters, but a slight uptick in archery hunters.

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=596054&mode=2

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You can shoot outdoors in Jersey without it being an "official" range. I would guess you can in every state. Local ordinances vary, of course.

 

 

Kinda. If you're a member of a rifle or pistol club, you can shoot anywhere you can legally discharge a firearm. If you're not, you are limited to authorized target ranges.

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Wait, what?

 

Nappen book is where I saw that.

 

Relevant statutes, with relevant parts highlighted.

 

http://law.onecle.com/new-jersey/2c-the-new-jersey-code-of-criminal-justice/39-6.html

 

2C:39-6. Exemptions.

 

 

... (skipping all the boring parts about police, military and others)

 

 f.     Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent:

 

     (1)     A member of any rifle or pistol club organized in accordance with the rules prescribed by the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice, in going to or from a place of target practice, carrying such firearms as are necessary for said target practice, provided that the club has filed a copy of its charter with the superintendent and annually submits a list of its members to the superintendent and provided further that the firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section;

 

 

 (3)     A person transporting any firearm or knife while traveling:

     (a)     Directly to or from any place for the purpose of hunting or fishing, provided the person has in his possession a valid hunting or fishing license; or

 

     (b)     Directly to or from any target range, or other authorized place for the purpose of practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions, provided in all cases that during the course of the travel all firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section and the person has complied with all the provisions and requirements of Title 23 of the Revised Statutes and any amendments thereto and all rules and regulations promulgated thereunder; or

 

 

So basically there are two exemptions with a subtle or important difference.

 

2C:39-6 f (1) allows a member of a rifle or pistol club to carry firearms (as specified in subsection g, which basically means in your trunk or in a case, unloaded) needed for target practice to "a place of target practice" which is not really defined. "A place of target practice" seems like it could mean anywhere, such as a range, or even a friend's back yard or farm. 

 

2C:39-6 f (3) allows anyone to carry firearms to an authorized target range or other authorized place. 

 

Of course, don't take my word for it, buy Nappen's book. I am not the attorney. He is, and he is qualified to give legal advice, not me. 

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Under the Third Circuits majority opinion  (see comments in the concurring opinion) you cannot use the FOPA Act to get the weapon from your vehicle to the declaration counter, because  you cannot carry it into the non sanitized portion of the terminal. The question of reliance on a NJ exemption, is less than clear. It is likely if you are arrested, you have a test case. The fact that no one decided to arrest and prosecute you on one occasion does not mean that in the future you are clear. Frankly, prior to the Third Circuits opinion, comfort was found in the FOPA, but the majority opinion wiped that out. Of course, none of this makes any sense, but this is NJ and few things do.

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PRECEDENTIAL

UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS

FOR THE THIRD CIRCUIT

 

(BLA BLAH BLAAAAHHHH)

Because Congress did not, in enacting § 926A,

unambiguously confer upon travelers any right redressable

under § 1983, I would affirm the decision of the District

Court on that basis, and on that basis alone. I therefore

concur in the judgment.

Only 6687 words?  

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Under the Third Circuits majority opinion  (see comments in the concurring opinion) you cannot use the FOPA Act to get the weapon from your vehicle to the declaration counter, because  you cannot carry it into the non sanitized portion of the terminal. The question of reliance on a NJ exemption, is less than clear. It is likely if you are arrested, you have a test case. The fact that no one decided to arrest and prosecute you on one occasion does not mean that in the future you are clear. Frankly, prior to the Third Circuits opinion, comfort was found in the FOPA, but the majority opinion wiped that out. Of course, none of this makes any sense, but this is NJ and few things do.

 

 

Bingo. 

 

This is why I would rather fly out of PA or CT. Also, this decision lends clarity to FOPA believe it or not... their issue was that FOPA applied to transport in a vehicle. Fine. I put the firearms in my vehicle in my garage where I can legally possess them. Drive to the airport in PA or CT where I have a carry permit, check them in and I am covered under FOPA until my destination. 

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I just got around to doing a thorough reading of this thread last night, when I realized to my horror that the two flights I have taken this year with my CCW gun could just as easily have ended up with me in jail as on my flight.  No one said a word to me either time about the change, or that I was breaking the law.

 

So based on a ruling by the Port Authority, the concept of being OK starting and ending a trip in a legal place no longer applies?

And our CCW permits have become a lot less useful, as we can only use them for destinations which we can reach by car?

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In looking at the statute, we have

(2) A person carrying a firearm or knife in the woods or fields or upon the waters of this State for the purpose of hunting, target practice or fishing, provided that the firearm or knife is legal and appropriate for hunting or fishing purposes in this State and he has in his possession a valid hunting license, or, with respect to fresh water fishing, a valid fishing license;

 

(3) A person transporting any firearm or knife while traveling:

 

(a) Directly to or from any place for the purpose of hunting or fishing, provided the person has in his possession a valid hunting or fishing license; or

 

Does this mean we can carry a firearm while fishing? Per the section above, what firearm is "appropriate for hunting and fishing purpose" in NJ?

 

 

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In looking at the statute, we have

(2) A person carrying a firearm or knife in the woods or fields or upon the waters of this State for the purpose of hunting, target practice or fishing, provided that the firearm or knife is legal and appropriate for hunting or fishing purposes in this State and he has in his possession a valid hunting license, or, with respect to fresh water fishing, a valid fishing license;

 

(3) A person transporting any firearm or knife while traveling:

 

(a) Directly to or from any place for the purpose of hunting or fishing, provided the person has in his possession a valid hunting or fishing license; or

 

Does this mean we can carry a firearm while fishing? Per the section above, what firearm is "appropriate for hunting and fishing purpose" in NJ?

 

 

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It means the kinds of weapons that you are allowed to use on your hunting license - muzzleloaders, shotguns. No pistols. But then again, if you have a FID, you can already possess those. 

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It means the kinds of weapons that you are allowed to use on your hunting license - muzzleloaders, shotguns. No pistols. But then again, if you have a FID, you can already possess those.

I'm more curious about the mention of fishing...and what firearm you may be permitted to carry while fishing...

 

 

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Thank goodness I got my firearms down to my Florida condo via LGA airport last year and have not had to travel with them since. No issues at LGA.. The police came over and looked at my FID an FL CCW and I was on my way.

 

LGA and JFK are definitely a problem. Many people are arrested at those airports. You got lucky. 

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The people who mostly get arrested fly into NY and stay in NY.. Then when they go to fly out they get arrested for having stayed in NY with a firearm which is illegal... I Made sure I had my toll receipt to show I just drove in from NJ... Regardless it looks like now we don't even have the letter of the law on our side.

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I'm confused.  So if I'm going on a hunting trip Midwest.  This trip I usually bring 2 rifles and a revolver, hard cased/locked and I'm flying out of Newark.  My flight gets delayed until the following morning so I have to stay the night in a hotel.  Can I get hemmed up by Officer Friendly for having "access" to my weapons at the hotel? 

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I'm confused.  So if I'm going on a hunting trip Midwest.  This trip I usually bring 2 rifles and a revolver, hard cased/locked and I'm flying out of Newark.  My flight gets delayed until the following morning so I have to stay the night in a hotel.  Can I get hemmed up by Officer Friendly for having "access" to my weapons at the hotel? 

 

Probably. Thing is though, that the hotel stay could be a "reasonable deviation" and covered under state law. Regardless, best to keep your mouth shut about your overnight hotel stay.

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I am not aware of any firearm appropriate for fishing, unless you are using a bang stick in case of a shark attack. I am also not aware of any fishing regulation that specifies that it is appropriate to fish with a specified firearm

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If we ever get a Republican president, all it would take is an executive clarification, like the dozens that have been issued for Obamacare, to make this whole thing go away.

Alternatively, if Republicans regain the Senate this fall, I don't think it would be too hard to get this "common sense" clarification written into law. The problem then is that O would probably veto it.

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I'm flying to Texas on Thursday morning

I read most of the posts in this thread more confused as ever

I want to bring my hand gun

It will be in a locked case with lock

How do I bring ammo????

Also what is the procedure I'm flying united airlines

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I'm flying to Texas on Thursday morning

I read most of the posts in this thread more confused as ever

I want to bring my hand gun

It will be in a locked case with lock

How do I bring ammo????

Also what is the procedure I'm flying united airlines

Ammo in ammo box.

 

I've only flown United with a firearm. Assume you're flying out of EWR?

Go inside to check-in counter. No curbside check-in.

 

Tell ticket agent you're checking a firearm in you're bag. They will give you an orange tag to fill out and put in bag.

 

At Terminal C, they will have someone take you to TSA, haven't done it at the other terminals.

 

TSA agent will take bag into room while you wait. After a couple of minutes, they'll come out and tell you you're all set.

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Ammo in ammo box.

 

 

I'm flying to Texas on Thursday morning

I read most of the posts in this thread more confused as ever

I want to bring my hand gun

It will be in a locked case with lock

How do I bring ammo????

Also what is the procedure I'm flying united airlines

 

I lock the gun case with a master padlock(keyed), and use one of the cable locks that came with a pistol to lock the gun case to the inside frame of my luggage.  I lock the luggage zipper with a TSA lock.  Seems like over kill, but the cable lock means they either have to cut it off, or take my entire bag(like that's not suspicious). Harder to conceal a huge piece of luggage vs a small S&W pistol case. 

Have had stuff stolen out of my bag before, out of Orlando(didn't have a gun in the bag at the time).  Orlando PD informed me that theft by the baggage handlers has been an ongoing issue they have been dealing with.  I avoid Orlando now. 

 

1. Go inside to check your bag.

2. Inform ticket agent you need to decare a firearm in the bag. They'll typically ask you if it's unloaded.

3. (I've only flown on Spirit with a gun) they make you sign the slip/tag. 

4. Ticket agent puts orange tag around handle of gun case. 

5. Lock the bag back up with TSA lock.

 

After that, every airport I've been to handles the bag differently.  Atlantic City, the ticket agent carries the bag back to the TSA and I guess just informs them there is a gun in the bag, they do their inspection, and on the plane it goes.  They don't ask for the keys to the gun case anymore(they have in the past, but the ticket agent informed me they didn't open the gun case). 

At Orlando(MCO), they have a TSA baggage screening spot right near the ticket counter where you can actually watch the TSA do the inspection of your bag.  They didn't ask for the keys. 

At West Palm Beach(PBI) they do the same thing as Atlantic City. No keys. Told me if there was any issues they would page me at the gate. 

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