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Shawnmoore81

Starbucks is caving

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After spending so much on insipid coffee I invested in a set up I could afford and bypass all the coffee houses on my way to work.

Dude that is bad ass. My life changed when I figured out the warm cup thing. I'm addicted to Nespresso. Better cup than in restaurants, way better than most, and quick and easy. I can order the capsules with an app on the phone.

 

I don't touch the stuff in coffee shops. Whether I can open carry or not.

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will stop at starbucks this morning with my full sized Glock and 22 round mag attached to my hip..

I generally carry concealed... but now... to prove a point... I will be open carrying the largest gun I own... I wish I had a shoulder holster.. 

 

private company they should do what they want.... the issue is the whole thing is illogical... and that is my problem with it... 

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Exactly....Starbucks is all about the vibe,and recently they've been caught in the unenviable middle which ultimately affects the bottom line.I don't drink their coffee if I can help it but I see their point.

+1....

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And that riser you have the grinder and maker on, where did you get that?

The whole set up was bought on line in pieces after a lot of research into the best semi autos for the home. the stainless riser was bought at a site called "wholelattelove",the left drawer holds spoons and tools and the left has a bar to tamp against and holds the espresso grounds which I later use as fertilizer for my herb garden.

If you think the warmer changed your life, you have to taste fresh beans done in a burr grinder........

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The whole set up was bought on line in pieces after a lot of research into the best semi autos for the home. the stainless riser was bought at a site called "wholelattelove",the left drawer holds spoons and tools and the left has a bar to tamp against and holds the espresso grounds which I later use as fertilizer for my herb garden.

If you think the warmer changed your life, you have to taste fresh beans done in a burr grinder........

Yea I have, it's great but too much noise and hassle. As I drink most of my coffee at work and I have a Nespresso set up there.

 

The herb garden quip reminded me of my favorite Spongebob quote;

 

SpongeBob: Too tough for me? That's downright ridiculous. I'll have you know I stubbed my toe last week while watering my spice garden and I only cried for twenty minutes...

 

Ha!

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The time factor is why I went kureg. Make a cup and run

I understand, the pod systems are very popular simply for the fact that it is so convenient,clean and maintenance free but I have had the benefits of drinking coffee from some excellent commercial Espresso systems for many years and to take a step backwards would be for me ...tragic. so I bit the bullet and put together my system over a period of 3 years as I came across sales and some deals. Yes It takes time,attention and maintenance but anything that is worth it usually does and exactly why I sold my gas grill many years ago and only use charcoal....To each his own.

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The whole set up was bought on line in pieces after a lot of research into the best semi autos for the home. the stainless riser was bought at a site called "wholelattelove",the left drawer holds spoons and tools and the left has a bar to tamp against and holds the espresso grounds which I later use as fertilizer for my herb garden.

If you think the warmer changed your life, you have to taste fresh beans done in a burr grinder........

 

Remind me to have you bring some coffee for the next range trip!  Machine looks "EPIC"!  I gotta go get me some coffee now after lunch, lol!

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will stop at starbucks this morning with my full sized Glock and 22 round mag attached to my hip..

I generally carry concealed... but now... to prove a point... I will be open carrying the largest gun I own... I wish I had a shoulder holster.. 

 

private company they should do what they want.... the issue is the whole thing is illogical... and that is my problem with it... 

 

Why? What point are you proving exactly?

 

It seems to me that the only reason Starbucks changed anything was because pro-gun people were being dicks about their neutrality. Starbucks still isn't anti-gun, they're now simply anti-dickheads. The only point you'd be proving by doing exactly what they don't want you to be doing is that pro-gun people are generally dickheads.

 

You've contributed a hell of a lot to this board and I know you to be an otherwise sane and reasonable person. This just has me completely baffled.

 

EDIT1: I'm not calling you a dickhead.

EDIT2: Relevant article: http://www.thebangswitch.com/our-own-worst-enemy/

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Remind me to have you bring some coffee for the next range trip!  Machine looks "EPIC"!  I gotta go get me some coffee now after lunch, lol!

You got it Rosey......I still have some Civet beans in the freezer and can't wait to hear your opinion............ :)

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will stop at starbucks this morning with my full sized Glock and 22 round mag attached to my hip..

I generally carry concealed... but now... to prove a point... I will be open carrying the largest gun I own... I wish I had a shoulder holster.. 

 

private company they should do what they want.... the issue is the whole thing is illogical... and that is my problem with it... 

 

 

Why? What point are you proving exactly?

 

It seems to me that the only reason Starbucks changed anything was because pro-gun people were being dicks about their neutrality. Starbucks still isn't anti-gun, they're now simply anti-dickheads. The only point you'd be proving by doing exactly what they don't want you to be doing is that pro-gun people are generally dickheads.

 

You've contributed a hell of a lot to this board and I know you to be an otherwise sane and reasonable person. This just has me completely baffled.

 

:popcorn:

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If you want to blame anyone for star bucks requesting not to bring firearms into there stores you should blame the people who organized those Pro gun rally's at Starbucks.  Starbucks is trying to not be political and not choosing aside but i think the rally's might have effected the bottom line which is profit.... as a Private business they have the right to request no firearms and it does not mean they are Anti's.  Maybe its as simple as thier insurance company threatening to raise the premiums because of the rally's.  

 

I dont like Starbucks because i prefer DD coffee so no point in me getting all huffy about it.

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It wasn't just pro-gun people being "dicks" (were they? they provided a lot of business and money because the company seemingly did not want to ban firearms on their property) the anti-gun people (moms demand action) were attacking starbucks for allowing the firearms.

 

Starbucks clearly took the side of the mom's, then again starbucks has a more liberal customer base. So these liberals get scared when they see an instrument of liberation, protection, and freedom.

 

Starbucks sucks anyway.

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The thread subject line is, quite frankly, very sensationalist and poorly describing the 'situation'...

I know right. Shocker!

 

i never went out of my way to open carry there..... but I will now....

 

will stop at starbucks this morning with my full sized Glock and 22 round mag attached to my hip..

I generally carry concealed... but now... to prove a point... I will be open carrying the largest gun I own... I wish I had a shoulder holster..

 

private company they should do what they want.... the issue is the whole thing is illogical... and that is my problem with it...

 

 

Vlad, this makes no sense whatsoever.

 

You said it yourself, it is a private company. It doesn't have to make sense to you, it doesn't have to be logical from your perspective. You are willing to go into an establishment, carry in a manner that you dont usually, and give your hard earned money to a company you no longer agree with, all to prove a point? That is illogical. What else is illogical is trying to show them that they are wrong about gun-owners by doing exactly what they are asking you politely not to do. You want to show them that you don't agree with their stance - which frankly doesn't seem to have changed other than a slighty more firm "leave me out of it" - show your displeasure with your wallet.

 

By the way, did you go there to support them when their stance was ever so slightly opposite?

 

How is your proscribed course of action going to change anything other than to strengthen their resolve that they are doing the right thing and that gun owners really are worse customers than the antis and that the Employees, Managers, and Owners and customers without an agenda just don't want to be bothered?

 

Why? What point are you proving exactly?

 

It seems to me that the only reason Starbucks changed anything was because pro-gun people were being dicks about their neutrality. Starbucks still isn't anti-gun, they're now simply anti-dickheads. The only point you'd be proving by doing exactly what they don't want you to be doing is that pro-gun people are generally dickheads.

 

You've contributed a hell of a lot to this board and I know you to be an otherwise sane and reasonable person. This just has me completely baffled.

 

EDIT1: I'm not calling you a dickhead.

EDIT2: Relevant article: http://www.thebangswitch.com/our-own-worst-enemy/

Sgt. Toadette, I agree with you.

 

I think this article conveys my thoughts on this topic much better than I could.

 

http://practicaltacticalpodcast.com/starbucks/

This Is Why We Cant Have Nice Things – Starbucks

 

by ADMIN on SEPTEMBER 18, 2013

 

Well. We have done it.

 

I say we, as in the collective gun-owners and 2nd Amendment supporters/enthusiasts of this nation. We win together, and we loose together.

 

Last week, we shared a major victory in Colorado with the recall of two anti-gun politicians. Thats our Win.

 

This week, we have finally forced Starbucks to choose a side in the great gun debate. All the sabre rattling, and “starbucks appreciation days” and open carry foolishness we could throw at them. They finally made a decision.

 

Good Job. Well done. We have “educated” them and their “liberal” customers who don’t particularly share our views and affinity for all things that go bang.

 

The decision is in, and it is not in our favor. Starbucks has said that they do not wish to see “guns as a part of the Starbucks experience.” We have educated them to the point that they would prefer we just go away…or at least leave them out of it. They have said that they will not ask anyone open-carrying to leave, nor will they post signs regarding the policy. Frankly, I wish they would. I hope the “activists” have the intestinal fortitude to respect their wishes…but I’m not holding my breath based on how they have acted in the past. Calling for a boycott is weak-sauce, too.

 

We have essentially forced neutral Switzerland into the hands of the Nazis. A company that was not restrictive in their corporate policy. A company who followed local law. We forced them onto the national stage– without consulting them about it, I might add– and into the center of a rather divisive debate. Replete with “I Love Guns and Coffee” patches and t-shirts and mugs and all sorts of other cute little trinkets.

 

Instead of quietly supporting a company through the purchase of their product to show your appreciation, you just had to load up an AR, AK, or shotgun or put on that fancy “tactical” drop leg holster, call all of your gun-guy friends to meet you there, and march into the place to “Make a statement” and “educate” people on our rights.

 

You had to throw that rifle on your back, knowing damn good and well you were going to cause a scene. If you DIDNT know you were going to cause a scene, you’re an idiot when you consider the multiple “active killer/mass murder” incidents of very recent notoriety. You have allowed those of us who choose to be smart regarding these matters to get a black eye from society and, you are directly responsible for allowing the left a small victory.

 

The attention-whoreness of it all is rather disturbing.

 

My guess is that you are the same ones who only carry when you are trying to bait a cop or ruffle feathers or trying to “educate” people….well, you did. Congratulations. (P.S. Of the eleventy-billion videos of seen on YouTube wherein folks of your ilk try to “educate” cops on the law, Ive seen about 5 that were legitimate)

 

Don’t complain now because the company had to make a business decision to make their customers and workers feel more comfortable and/or safe. Remember that YOU are responsible. YOU forced their hand. YOU are the reason they made this choice.

 

We have turned the debate into a joke. Yes, we are all responsible.

 

Whether youre an (A) “in your face activist” as previously mentioned, or a (B) gun owner who doesnt agree with them but remains silent and thereby complicit, we are all responsible. Own it.

 

Personally I fall into the latter category (B). I think the first category are a bunch of fools, and open carry is a piss-poor method of carry outside of a few distinct instances. I have remained silent on the issue, but that ends today. I don’t want to be represented as a gun owner by those who choose to act as those described above. A tactical victory is never worth a strategic defeat. In the end this has hurt us in a battle where we are making progress. If we dont “eat our own” and correct these issues, the OTHER SIDE will. We have lost ground due to tomfoolery, chicanery, and general shenanigans. If we don’t get on the same page, we will continue to give up ground.

 

Much like how we get irritated when the “not terrorist” muslims dont come out and outright condemn muslim terrorist acts and organizations…we are taking the same track by not raising the bullshit flag when we ought to. We have to police our own. No successful organization, entity, or cause embraces personnel or spokesmen who damage the image and value of the brand.

 

There is strong precedent that responsible activism, grassroots campaigns, and legal processes can make a tangible difference. Just ask two former Colorado politicians. Ask our Founding Fathers. Ask any number of successful organizations or causes.

 

And now the internet comes to life on the topic. There are alot of ”scuffles” and debates going on about how Starbucks is wrong to take this stance, or how we (gun owners) shouldn’t “eat our own” with regards to the fools who just have to “educate the public” with their open carrying of guns, and treating them as if they were nothing more than a high end fashion accessory. Still others say that while they dont disagree with Starbuck’s policy, they dont like being “lumped in” with “those guys” — talking about the aforementioned “educators and keepers of liberty”

 

One internet poster said: “I never believed Starbucks was an ally anyway.” I would say he may be right. They weren’t. They are an outfit that sells coffee. Period. They just had a policy that wasn’t restrictive, and followed local law. They were unwillingly and unwittingly co-opted by the “rabid gun movement” people, and literally thrust on the national stage in the midst of a highly charged debate without their consultation on the matter.

 

This is why we can’t have nice things.

 

Don’t blame Starbucks, and don’t blame liberals. Blame stupid gun owners.

 

Look in the mirror, own it, give yourself a pep-talk, and go fix it.

 

Practical takeaway: Just because you CAN doesn’t always mean you SHOULD.

For those living under a rock, or who don’t click links in articles, here is the full letter:

 

An Open Letter from Howard Schultz, ceo of Starbucks Coffee Company

 

Tuesday, September 17, 2013

Posted by Howard Schultz, Starbucks chairman, president and chief executive officer

 

Dear Fellow Americans,

 

Few topics in America generate a more polarized and emotional debate than guns. In recent months, Starbucks stores and our partners (employees) who work in our stores have been thrust unwillingly into the middle of this debate. That’s why I am writing today with a respectful request that customers no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas.

 

From the beginning, our vision at Starbucks has been to create a “third place” between home and work where people can come together to enjoy the peace and pleasure of coffee and community. Our values have always centered on building community rather than dividing people, and our stores exist to give every customer a safe and comfortable respite from the concerns of daily life.

 

We appreciate that there is a highly sensitive balance of rights and responsibilities surrounding America’s gun laws, and we recognize the deep passion for and against the “open carry” laws adopted by many states. (In the United States, “open carry” is the term used for openly carrying a firearm in public.) For years we have listened carefully to input from our customers, partners, community leaders and voices on both sides of this complicated, highly charged issue.

 

Our company’s longstanding approach to “open carry” has been to follow local laws: we permit it in states where allowed and we prohibit it in states where these laws don’t exist. We have chosen this approach because we believe our store partners should not be put in the uncomfortable position of requiring customers to disarm or leave our stores. We believe that gun policy should be addressed by government and law enforcement—not by Starbucks and our store partners.

 

Recently, however, we’ve seen the “open carry” debate become increasingly uncivil and, in some cases, even threatening. Pro-gun activists have used our stores as a political stage for media events misleadingly called “Starbucks Appreciation Days” that disingenuously portray Starbucks as a champion of “open carry.” To be clear: we do not want these events in our stores. Some anti-gun activists have also played a role in ratcheting up the rhetoric and friction, including soliciting and confronting our customers and partners.

 

For these reasons, today we are respectfully requesting that customers no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas—even in states where “open carry” is permitted—unless they are authorized law enforcement personnel.

 

I would like to clarify two points. First, this is a request and not an outright ban. Why? Because we want to give responsible gun owners the chance to respect our request—and also because enforcing a ban would potentially require our partners to confront armed customers, and that is not a role I am comfortable asking Starbucks partners to take on. Second, we know we cannot satisfy everyone. For those who oppose “open carry,” we believe the legislative and policy-making process is the proper arena for this debate, not our stores. For those who champion “open carry,” please respect that Starbucks stores are places where everyone should feel relaxed and comfortable. The presence of a weapon in our stores is unsettling and upsetting for many of our customers.

 

I am proud of our country and our heritage of civil discourse and debate. It is in this spirit that we make today’s request. Whatever your view, I encourage you to be responsible and respectful of each other as citizens and neighbors.

 

Sincerely,

 

Howard Schultz

 

 

 

– Editors Note: With a little help from my friends Jon Canipe and Matt Jacques –

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I think the topic title describes it perfectly. The letter is asking and not banning so they didn't cave in. But it's a step towards banning so they are caving. So yeah I think the title is perfect.

 

You guys need a hobby other then crying about what I type

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

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I get Starbucks all the time... I have carried both open and concealed... I mostly carry concealed because I get the advantage to it...

 

The reason I open carried there today is because of the frustration I have with their clients that have an illogical fear of firearms....

They feel they have "won" by bullying Starbucks into "putting gun owners in their place..."

 

"Yay now I can finally go to Starbucks again"

"Good move now Starbucks is safe again"

"I can get a coffee now without being worried about being shot!"

 

These are the comments I saw all day....

To be honest I have had enough.... Want to ban guns. From your store... Go for it... You have the right to do so... But don't release some stupid half attempt at riding both sides of the fence.... So some idiots can dance in the street as if there was some monumental victory....

 

So yeah... Open carry it is... Unfortunately because of where I am no one really cares... I doubt people even notice I'm carrying a gun to be honest...

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I think the topic title describes it perfectly. The letter is asking and not banning so they didn't cave in. But it's a step towards banning so they are caving. So yeah I think the title is perfect. You guys need a hobby other then crying about what I typeSent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

The title should be "Starbucks has to change its policy ever-so-slightly to try and keep jackasses out of its coffee shops so they can remain a profitable private company and not close up shop, subsequently adding it's workers to the national unemployment numbers"

 

Or how about, "Starbucks makes a polite and earnest request to its customers to leave the politics out of their private stores and just enjoy their coffee."

 

You run around this place like Chicken Little all the time, demanding everyone to pay attention to you because the sky is falling and you are the only one who knows it, it is getting old... But I enjoy calling you on it when you do it :)

 

This is a business decision, not a denouncement of 2A rights. Starbucks isn't a gun shop, they don't publish a magazine about firearms, they don't have a forum about weapons or self defense or the 2nd Amendment.

 

They are a business that sells coffee, that's it. All they're trying to do is sell as much of that java as they can. Why on God's green Earth would they want to be put in a position to choose sides and alienate a portion of their customer base. They would much rather take everyone's money than just some people's money, don't you think.

 

They didn't "Cave" or "capitulate" or "switch sides". They were forced into this business decision because people on our side - the gun community - chose to force them to make a stand to stay where they want to be as a profit making entity. They do that by selling as much of their product to consumers of all stripes, Republican, Democrat, Gunner, Anti, etc.... As they can. As in amy business that caters to the public, when one group starts to show their a$$, they will be asked to stop, then made to leave. This is what happened.

 

Speaking of rights, our side seems to be bitching a lot about "Your standing on my rights!". What about Starbuck's right to conduct business on their property in a way that keeps most people happy and makes them the most money? Starbucks, their employees and customers have rights as well. They were pushed into making this statement because there are dumbasses on our side who can't think, can't be cool, and respect other's rights as much as they expect their own to be respected. And those of us that should have stopped this before it got to this point and gave the Antis one in the win column, turned a blind eye.

 

I liken this to a gay pride parade every day on your business' property. You may have no problem with gays one way or the other, but if everyday, the gays decide to make their flamboyant and overtly open stance known to the public from your place of business, it will hurt your bottom line and you are going to ask them to stop.

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The title should be "Starbucks has to change its policy ever-so-slightly to try and keep jackasses out of its coffee shops so they can remain a profitable private company and not close up shop, subsequently adding it's workers to the national unemployment numbers"

 

Or how about, "Starbucks makes a polite and earnest request to its customers to leave the politics out of their private stores and just enjoy their coffee."

 

You run around this place like Chicken Little all the time, demanding everyone to pay attention to you because the sky is falling and you are the only one who knows it, it is getting old... But I enjoy calling you on it when you do it :)

 

This is a business decision, not a denouncement of 2A rights. Starbucks isn't a gun shop, they don't publish a magazine about firearms, they don't have a forum about weapons or self defense or the 2nd Amendment.

 

They are a business that sells coffee, that's it. All they're trying to do is sell as much of that java as they can. Why on God's green Earth would they want to be put in a position to choose sides and alienate a portion of their customer base. They would much rather take everyone's money than just some people's money, don't you think.

 

They didn't "Cave" or "capitulate" or "switch sides". They were forced into this business decision because people on our side - the gun community - chose to force them to make a stand to stay where they want to be as a profit making entity. They do that by selling as much of their product to consumers of all stripes, Republican, Democrat, Gunner, Anti, etc.... As they can. As in amy business that caters to the public, when one group starts to show their a$$, they will be asked to stop, then made to leave. This is what happened.

 

Speaking of rights, our side seems to be bitching a lot about "Your standing on my rights!". What about Starbuck's right to conduct business on their property in a way that keeps most people happy and makes them the most money? Starbucks, their employees and customers have rights as well. They were pushed into making this statement because there are dumbasses on our side who can't think, can't be cool, and respect other's rights as much as they expect their own to be respected. And those of us that should have stopped this before it got to this point and gave the Antis one in the win column, turned a blind eye.

 

I liken this to a gay pride parade every day on your business' property. You may have no problem with gays one way or the other, but if everyday, the gays decide to make their flamboyant and overtly open stance known to the public from your place of business, it will hurt your bottom line and you are going to ask them to stop.

 

 

If I typed those titles you would have then complained that my titles are to long. There is nothing that I put that causes panic. Unless your maybe a little to jumpy.

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If I typed those titles you would have then complained that my titles are to long. There is nothing that I put that causes panic. Unless your maybe a little to jumpy.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

It's not panic. It is a spin that that gives it a false connotation. It is an inkling of "Us v Them" when it isn't that case at all. It's the hint of "EHRMERGERD, Starbucks is now AntiGun!!!!!1!!!!" when really it is "We blew it and now Starbucks doesn't want us to OC in their stores"

 

Regardless, seriously, look at this guy:

68b2fe79123be9d84e862a72837d2df9_zpsbd1b

How is that appropriate in a coffee shop? :facepalm:

 

The other gunners there should have put a stop to this kind of shenanigans before it got to where we are now.

 

 

ETA:

How about this. You stop crying, ill stop arguing. And then maybe just maybe a thread won't get locked again for no other reason then a petty argument, how's that?Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

How about this, you take some responsibility and act like an adult and stop posting inflammatory nuanced BS as topic titles. I am not crying about it - like I said I enjoy calling you out on it because it lets everyone see you scream that "the sky is falling" - I am asking you to take some personal responsibility and use some adult behavior and judgement for a change.

 

- Mods don't lock. I am done with Shawnmoore81 on this thread.

Edited by High Exposure

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It's not panic. It is a spin that that gives it a false connotation. It is an inkling of "Us v Them" when it isn't that case at all. It's the hint of "EHRMERGERD, Starbucks is now AntiGun!!!!!1!!!!" when really it is "We blew it and now Starbucks doesn't want us to OC in their stores"

 

Regardless, seriously, look at this guy:

Posted Image

How is that appropriate in a coffee shop? :facepalm:

 

The other gunners there should have put a stop to this kind of shenanigans before it got to where we are now.

Then maybe you should argue with the people who carried shotguns in to get coffee. I personally only carry a pistol. The fight that was going on with Starbucks was very much a 2 sided fight so you could call it an "us vs them" but complaining to me or arguing on a forum in a state that doesn't allow it anyway isn't the answer. But Starbucks is now leaning closer to the "anti" side. So yes from the pro 2nd amendment side it is them "caving" in to the anti's. they are the ones that got the news to start picking it up. Once the media got ahold of this it caused the owners to make a move.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

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It's not panic. It is a spin that that gives it a false connotation. It is an inkling of "Us v Them" when it isn't that case at all. It's the hint of "EHRMERGERD, Starbucks is now AntiGun!!!!!1!!!!" when really it is "We blew it and now Starbucks doesn't want us to OC in their stores"

 

Regardless, seriously, look at this guy:

68b2fe79123be9d84e862a72837d2df9_zpsbd1b

How is that appropriate in a coffee shop? :facepalm:

 

Your right its not appropriate,that guy with super white legs should wear pants

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