appleseed ---> Vernon NJ, in November

[intercooler 41]

there is going to be an appleseed event in Vernon in November

[djg0770 481]

more info please

 

been looking forward to one of these

[pjd832 146]

hard to believe nj allowing people to camp while in posession of weapons

[mbeattie 0]

There's actually 2 in NJ, one in Vernon and one in Winslow in south jersey

 

http://www.appleseedinfo.org/search-states-display.php?qstate=NJ&statename=New%20Jersey

[Melgamatic 66]

I might finally go to the Appleseed.  With the event in Vernon it's too close.  No hotel needed, etc.

[Vini 0]

Cool, right behind Cherry Ridge Range

[millsan1 3]

Would a M&P 15/22 be OK for this?

[jm1827 284]

I know that area well, we used to call that Rattle Snake Mountain, right down the road from the old Gary's Vernon Lodge.  I think Gary's is called the Vernon Inn (or sopmething like that).  A good friend of mine bought that bar from Dennis Gary and his father Rudy rears ago.

 

We used to go hiking there quite ofteh as kids, really nice area.

[Grapeshot 301]

I went to the Appleseed in Winslow and it was great! Learned a lot. 10 attendees, 2 instructors. Didn't make rifleman, but came close. I will go again.

 

Details here:http://www.appleseedinfo.org/

 

Pictures from our event:http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=37586.0

 

 

[intercooler 41]

Appleseed is an organized training event that is similar to CMP training(they are both almost the same in intent). They traing proper shooting technique, sight /sling use and basic marksmanship. 

they have a website about it that I will post when I get a chance. They had scheduled one for Matamoras but it was cancelled...this obviously is great for us up here

[GeorgeHM 5]

Thanks I may be able to m a me it family and all. Wife enjoys shooting my 22. 

[boo 6]

I notice the Vernon event is limited to .22 caliber. On the outside chance I get my FID in time for this (I've been advised early-to-mid November, I hope I'm not just setting myself up for disappointment ), what do you recommend I shoot, a simple bolt-action rifle, or an AR style? 

 

1. My current long-gun experience is minimal

2. I don't expect to get much use out of a .22

3. I plan on most of my long-gun shooting being on AR-style platforms

 

I wonder if learning on a bolt-action will better for learning fundamentals. And as an added bonus, it will be much cheaper. But I also wonder if an AR style rifle will better prepare me for the type of rifle I plan on doing most of my shooting on?

 

Any thoughts?

[Vini 0]

For about $200 you can get a good 22lr rifle. 

For about same price or less you can get 22lr conversion kit for your future AR15 - good way to get a lot of shooting experience for cheap. Same trigger, same aim etc, just lesser recoil. 

I've got Target Master (watch front page for a good sale) conversion and happy with it. Out to 50 yards (100y with no wind) my M&P15 with 1:9 twist gives great accuracy.

 

[boo 6]

I forgot about the conversion idea. Does the rifle cycle normally? (I'll have a 14.5" barrel with mid-length gas system, if it means anything). Also, I could have sworn reading that use of .22lr conversions can clog up the gas tube since .22lr loads don't generate enough pressure to prevent junk from accumulating inside. Has this been an issue for you?

[T Bill 649]

When done shooting 22LR in your AR, change the bolt back and shoot 5 .223/5.56 loads out of the gun. It will blow any residue out of the tube.  When you get home you can clean it any way you desire.  Never had a problem.

[Vini 0]

It cycles fine in mine, can't tell about yours

Haven't had any issues, about 600-800 rounds of 22lr through. Some occasional FTF, depends on ammo, but it's common for any 22. 

Manual says to shoot few 223 rounds after every 250 lead or 500 plated 22lr rounds to prevent gas tube from clogging. 

Even if it will clog the gas tube, it would take few thousand rounds. Count about $350 in ammo savings per thousand rounds 22lr vs 223. 

If you save $1K+ on ammo, I'm sure you can invest $12 in gas tube cleaners. Or buy few new upper receivers. 

[Grapeshot 301]

BTW - Some of the events are timed, and changing magazines is a part of the overall test for rifleman, so you should go with a semi-auto .22 with at least 2 magazines.

 

For example, they will tell you to load 2 magazines, one with 2 shots and the other with 10. You will shoot at 4 AQ targets. In a set amount of time, you will need to place 2 shots on the left target, change magazines, place another 1 on the first target, and then 3 in each of the remaining targets. 

 

A bolt action is probably the worst thing you could bring to an Appleseed, because after each shot you will need to re-establish your natural point of aim.

[boo 6]

Thanks all for the input, looks like semi-auto it is. I found the following:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Appleseed

 

The ultimate goal of the rifle marksmanship clinics known as "Appleseeds" is to teach students the ability to maintain a 4 minutes of angle (MOA) precision and accuracy when shooting through the use of traditional sling-stabilized United States Army shooting techniques, using a rack-grade rifle with iron sights. This translates into becoming a rifleman, defined as: a "marksman capable of hitting a man-sized target from 500 yards away."^[11] A 4 MOA precision and accuracy translate into being able to put all rounds into a circle with a diameter of 20 inches at 500 yards, equaling the center of mass of a human. At 25 meters, this same 4 MOA precision and accuracy translate into firing rounds accurately into a circle of approximately 1 inch diameter.

 

 

1 inch group at 25 meters? 20 in group at 500 yards? Looks like I'm going to need some practice...

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

 

1 inch group at 25 meters? 20 in group at 500 yards? Looks like I'm going to need some practice...

 

Well amen to that!  I would consider doing this, but does anyone know if they break your chops if you're really bad?

[Grapeshot 301]

Nobody busts anyone’s chops, and everyone is extremely supportive. I’ve got to say I learned a lot, and the proof is in my targets at the range. My accuracy definitely improved after taking this class. On the average it takes 3 Appleseed shoots to make rifleman.  I will be going again next year.

[djg0770 481]

A bolt action is probably the worst thing you could bring to an Appleseed, because after each shot you will need to re-establish your natural point of aim.

 

My cousin nearly made rifleman on his first Appleseed with a bolt action CZ.  I don't think anyone should discount a bolt as a possibility IF that's all you have access too.  Though I would state that a tube fed semi will be worse than any box magazine fed rifle whether bolt or semi...

[Grapeshot 301]

My cousin nearly made rifleman on his first Appleseed with a bolt action CZ.  

 

I'm impressed! There is no way I could have scored as well as I did (and still not make rifleman) using a bolt action. Got to work on my bolt skills...

 

And yes, anything tube fed is not really going to work for an Appleseed.

[ClangClang 14]

I e-mailed both guys on the site but havent gotten a response yet.

 

Can you attend for only one day?  I can't make it on Saturday

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

My understanding of it is that as a two day class, it builds on what you learn each day.  So you could probably attend just Saturday, but I think it would be tough to jump in on Sunday without having the information from the day before.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Was it this past weekend?  Anyone from here go?  If so, how was it (besides frigid)?

[boo 6]

It was actually for the weekend of the 16th-17th. I'd love to hear feedback as well. I had planned to go, but something came up at the last minute.