Lend gun to my son - is it ok?

[68chris 20]

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[brucin 923]

It's as illegal as stopping for gas on the way home from the range.

 

But would it be illegal if your colostomy bag was full?

 

Personally I think that is a reasonable reason to stop.

[68chris 20]

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[ryan_j 0]

One question that it would be nice to see answered is if there is any example of someone in NJ transferring a gun to two people jointly, or to a corporation that has multiple officers or shareholders, like they do with Title II firearms (federally registered machine guns and such) in free states.

 

Joint ownership of property is pretty settled under the law with regard to ordinary objects. So how is it that in NJ you can't execute a transfer conveying an indivisible interest to two or more people, or to a company?

 

Now if anyone has an answer to that, I'd be all ears.

I think you can have a trust for joint ownership.

[illy 1]

No. The felony charge for stopping for gas doesn't exist.

 

There are clearly defined felony charges for unlawful possession of a firearm, with clear penalties. Unlawful possession or unlawful transfer is much more serious than stopping for gas.

As soon as you're outside of "directly to/from" and not making a reasonably necessary deviation under the circumstances, you're guilty of unlawful possession.

Is stopping for gas a deviation which is reasonably necessary under the circumstances?

Only the gun hating jury of your "peers" and the sentencing judge know.

[matty 810]

Stop talking about it on the interwebz, for starters. 

[Newtonian 453]

I think you've got the answer you were looking for..  Quick, simple..  "No"...  Just like I can't take my wife's gun with me to the range by myself (she has to be with me)

But if there's no gun registration, on what grounds does the theoretical, omipresent, all-knowing, all-seeing, demonic ueber-cop who haunts these forums arrest or detain you? 

 

You have a gun in a case, in your trunk, you take it out, shoot it, put it back and drive home. So?

 

I've driven by dozens of cops on my way to the range. I'd be surprised if I haven't shot next to a few. At least 10 stood by, drinking coffee and gabbing, as I executed a tricky K-turn around their SUVs at the Cherry Hill pistol range during one of their training sessions. Nobody asked me anything, or even paid attention. No-one asked to check my shirt pocket for hollow-point .22lrs.

 

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

[kman 56]

When the handgun is siezed in a stop the owner must come forward to claim it or else the cops are keeping it and get cyrious as to what is going on. Therein is the problem. If it is loaned out to your son, if he says it is his they can call and check the NJ handgun records and see you bought it last and that there is no documented transfer to him. Both of you are then under arrest for transfer without permit. If you go to the poloce to claim it, then the outcome is the same for both of you because his possessing it proves you transferred it to him without a permit unless he pleads to stealing it and thus absolves you of culpability for transferring it. With a rifle at least such a misunderstanding can be fixed with a miraculously dated cert of eligibility being "found" but this can't be done with a handgun.

 

So if your son borrows it and is stopped what would you recommend he say when asked if the handgun is his? No matter what he says he loses in such an instance. Not a position you want him to be in. It isn't worth it. Better off just going with him or giving him money to buy one rather than risk spending money on attorneys.

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4

 

 

[vladtepes 1,060]

Unfortunately this thread has become ridiculous because it is not a discussion of legal or illegal... It is instead a discussion on circumventing the LAW that is disagreed with...

 

Lending a gun without legally transferring it is ILLEGAL period...

 

Filling out fake COE.... Lying.... All of that is illegal.. Period...

If you are willing to risk your ability to legally own guns... If you are willing to risk your freedom.... Then hell you might as well just carry your gun on you... Breaking the law is breaking the law....

 

None of this is the same as stopping for a bathroom break or to get gas....

You need gas to operate your car...

Going to the bathroom is an involuntary bodily function...

If ever a reasonable stop existed these are examples....

 

So if this is going to go on... Can we please bring the thread back to reality....

[YellowMinion 0]

Unfortunately this thread has become ridiculous because it is not a discussion of legal or illegal... It is instead a discussion on circumventing the LAW that is disagreed with...

 

Lending a gun without legally transferring it is ILLEGAL period...

 

Filling out fake COE.... Lying.... All of that is illegal.. Period...

If you are willing to risk your ability to legally own guns... If you are willing to risk your freedom.... Then hell you might as well just carry your gun on you... Breaking the law is breaking the law....

 

None of this is the same as stopping for a bathroom break or to get gas....

You need gas to operate your car...

Going to the bathroom is an involuntary bodily function...

If ever a reasonable stop existed these are examples....

 

So if this is going to go on... Can we please bring the thread back to reality....

You should just stick to pa nuff said

[vladtepes 1,060]

You should just stick to pa nuff said

Thanks for your relevant input....

 

Where I live has little to do with anything.....

[Kingsoverqueens 10]

Lending a gun without legally transferring it is ILLEGAL period...

 

Filling out fake COE.... Lying.... All of that is illegal.. Period...

 

 

What exactly constitutes a "fake" COE?

 

It seems to me that completing a COE from one party to the other, whether they be related or not, or whether the transfer of the firearm (long gun in this case) is for a short term or long term, seems irrelevant.

 

In order to legally receive a long gun you need an NJ FID and other ID with matching address and be able to truthfully fill out a COE.

 

Seems to me to be the perfect way to "lend"....errr...."transfer on a less than permanent" basis a long gun from one person to the other.

[vladtepes 1,060]

What exactly constitutes a "fake" COE?

 

It seems to me that completing a COE from one party to the other, whether they be related or not, or whether the transfer of the firearm (long gun in this case) is for a short term or long term, seems irrelevant.

 

In order to legally receive a long gun you need an NJ FID and other ID with matching address and be able to truthfully fill out a COE.

 

Seems to me to be the perfect way to "lend"....errr...."transfer on a less than permanent" basis a long gun from one person to the other.

It has to be dated and as long as you fill one out with every transfer you are good to go... Legally...

 

Some people advocate filling out after you are in trouble.... But sure as long as it is filled out with every transfer you are good with a long gun...

[Newtonian 453]

These discussions remind me of theological questions of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin (Christian), or if a married man has a heart attack while working on his roof and falls off, and if during the fall he penetrates a woman who is not his wife, did SHE commit adultery (Jewish)?

 

A recent book titled "Three Felonies a Day" suggested that almost everyone in the U.S. could be in federal prison if all our laws were applied rigorously enough.

 

Threatening the life of a high official is a felony, as well it should be. What happens if you write the threat on a piece of toilet paper, wipe yourself with it, and flush? Maybe it's not illegal. But I'll bet you could get yourself arrested if you walked into your local station and told the chief what you were doing.

 

What happens 99.999999% of the time you have a loaded gun tucked within an inside pocket of your jacket, and you accidentally step off your property?

 

If it was as easy to get busted as most posters in this forum suggest, every asshole gang member, pimp, and drug dealer in this state would be in jail.

 

 

Alas.

 

P.S. In no way, shape, manner or form do I condone illegality. The only reason we still enjoy the limited rights we have in NJ is that we legal and responsible gun owners go out of our way to obey the law. Too bad everyone doesn't understand that. All I'm saying is there is no reason to be paranoid. Not yet anyway. 

 

 

[Dirt diver 0]

It has to be dated and as long as you fill one out with every transfer you are good to go... Legally...

 

Some people advocate filling out after you are in trouble.... But sure as long as it is filled out with every transfer you are good with a long gun...

For long guns, the COA just needs to be dated prior to the transfer. Not for every transfer if it's to the same person. It could be years old. Some people complete a COA for every family member holding an fid the minute they get home from the store and keep all copies in your safe. The original purchaser is covered by the store version and others are covered by the new ones. I never carry the COA's for the long guns. If ever needed, you could just grab the applicable version.

[vladtepes 1,060]

For long guns, the COA just needs to be dated prior to the transfer. Not for every transfer if it's to the same person. It could be years old. Some people complete a COA for every family member holding an fid the minute they get home from the store and keep all copies in your safe. The original purchaser is covered by the store version and others are covered by the new ones. I never carry the COA's for the long guns. If ever needed, you could just grab the applicable version.

 

 

so if I sell you a gun.... and you fill out a COE... and then sell me back to me because you change your mind with a COE...  and I then sell the gun to you again 20 years later.. because you again change your mind... you do not need a new COE? that doesn't sound correct since anything disqualifying could have happened in that 20 years and the whole point of the COE is to affirm that the individual is not a prohibited person.. further the form specifically asks for the date of the transfer.. meaning documenting the event of the actual transfer... additionally.. in documenting the date... it is a document that references who owned the gun at a particular time... so again having one for the time when the transfer actually occurs seems correct..

 

can you point to the law that states what you are saying is accurate? because it does not sound like what the law actually states.. 

[Dirt diver 0]

I'm talking hypothetically between family members in the same household to make the subject of the thread easier (for long guns). You are correct as far as the letter of the law but completing a COA everytime a son borrows his father's over under to go shoot trap is just silly and belts and suspenders. To each his own

[vladtepes 1,060]

I'm talking hypothetically between family members in the same household to make the subject of the thread easier (for long guns). You are correct as far as the letter of the law but completing a COA everytime a son borrows his father's over under to go shoot trap is just silly and belts and suspenders. To each his own

 

 

you can carry a loaded handgun.. and it is very unlikely that you will ever be caught.. when was the last time you were patted down by the cops?

 

my intention on this site is never to give grey area advice... my intention is to present the law as I understand it.. I am certainly not a lawyer and people can do what they want, but when people start to offer grey area opinions the truth gets lost....

 

so I was just simply saying if a gun goes from one person to another... as far as the law.. it must be documented..