Another shooting at Heritage Guild tonight

[checko 180]

Another internet tough guy

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[gfl216 226]

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How about show alittle compassion for the person that thought things were so bad that suicide was an option?

[checko 180]

How about show alittle compassion for the person that thought things were so bad that suicide was an option?

Agreed its sad but its a choice that person made. Plenty of people go through tough times and don't kill themselves in a public place.

 

Ultimately its a completely unnecessary and selfish act. I agree with Albanian, if you're gonna do it, keep that shit at home. Has nothing to do with him being "tough"

 

[Albanian 121]

Another internet tough guy

Yeah okay. These asshole can't handle life for whatever reason, it may be legitimate. So they go to someone's place of business, use a service they have to kill themselves, in front of other people who may be traumatized. Also endangering other people with ricochet. Assholes. It is sad when someone kills themselves however when they do it in such a dickish way I am hardpressed to feel bad about it.

[bulpup 98]

Yeah okay. These asshole can't handle life for whatever reason, it may be legitimate. So they go to someone's place of business, use a service they have to kill themselves, in front of other people who may be traumatized. Also endangering other people with ricochet. Assholes. It is sad when someone kills themselves however when they do it in such a dickish way I am hardpressed to feel bad about it.

If they are thinking about blowing their brains out none of the above is going to be considered. As in; all they want is a gun and a bullet. You and the ongoing struggle in NJ do not exist.

 

The mindset of "well fine you are good to go to shoot yourself in the head but at least take a minute to be considerate of how it affects me(someone you don't know)" is incredibly unrealistic.

 

 

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[checko 180]

If they are thinking about blowing their brains out none of the above is going to be considered. As in; all they want is a gun and a bullet. You and the ongoing struggle in NJ do not exist.

 

The mindset of "well fine you are good to go to shoot yourself in the head but at least take a minute to be considerate of how it affects me(someone you don't know)" is incredibly unrealistic.

 

 

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Then its silly to Boohoo over them cause they gave up.

[JimB1 555]

Sad that someone felt things were so bad that they had to take their own life. A couple of days ago a 15 year old near where I live decided to kill himself by stealing his father's car at 2AM and doing 100 mph into oncoming traffic. He killed himself and two other people in the car he hit. People that are going to kill themselves either don't think about or don't care about the consequences of their actions on others. 

 

I will say that I have rented guns by myself at HG when I didn't have one and it was helpful in choosing what I wanted (or didn't want) . Unfortunately as with a lot of things in the last decade or two a few bad incidents will ruin a good thing for the 99.999% us that are just there to practice and have fun.

 

-Jim

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Dave, I feel VERY safe at our club, and CJ, due to the strict rules we have in place at both ranges. I feel bad for my friends that "belong" to public ranges because they live too far from clubs like ours. I have one friend who will not go to public ranges and was thrilled when I told him I belonged to a private club that hosts events that non-members can attend. He also feels very safe with the RO's running the events.

 

Well said Mike.  As a Discipline Chair and former Board Member, I'll take that as a compliment.  As a member of a Club that's based in Vernon, which is 80 miles from my home, all I have to say is if you really want something bad enough, you go do it, since NJ is so small (relative to other States).

[PDM 91]

As for private clubs being so safe, I belong to one in North Jersey (won't name it here).  On more than one occasion I've been next to one of the older members who was trying to adjust a sight on a LOADED .22 target pistol, which involved him muzzle sweeping people more than once.  On one of those occasions he put two rounds into the table in front of him and continued on his way as if nothing happened.  Luckily there was no ricochet.  And this is a club where people can be a pain in the ass about range procedure, but apparently that is applied selectively to new guys.  Contrast that to public ranges (like GFH) or what I consider semi-private like Cherry Ridge, where you normally have ROs on the firing line observing everyone.  It all depends on the range -- I don't think you can generalize.  That said, I'm not crazy about the idea of gun rentals generally.

[GCE61 0]

what a shame, it'll be just a matter of time before the gun-haters will blame public ranges for these events. Just more negative press we don't need.

[ogfarmer 138]

another 54 year old guy and it was ruled suicide.  Such a shame

 

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/easton/index.ssf/2013/10/shooting_at_williams_township.html#incart_river

[halbautomatisch 60]

Rays sport shop had a couple of suicides not too long before they closed --  I had heard it shook up the RO pretty bad

 

It sucks that this guy thought this was his only way out --  but it sure is better than the asshat 15 year old who killed himself with mommies car on rt 27 in Edison this week taking 2 Brother in laws with him

 

RIP 

Did Ray's even rent guns? I don't remember them offering it.

[9X19 125]

Did Ray's even rent guns? I don't remember them offering it.

Not to my knowledge.

[Heavyopp 167]

Did Ray's even rent guns? I don't remember them offering it.

You know, Now that I think about it --  I don't remember them ever renting guns either

 

Maybe they started to trying to increase revenue...  I know I didn't shoot in there for years before they closed --  was too dark and dreary

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I may be wrong, but I was told it was a Cop that Offed himself at Ray's.

 

I used to shoot there decades ago.  Even lit the place up with some .38 Tracers.  The RO shot some too, lol!

[Newtonian 453]

I like the idea that you have to have your own gun to rent. It should prevent at least one kind of range suicide. 

 

 

[CMJeepster 2,778]

It should prevent at least one kind of range suicide.

 

Range, yes. Stopping at the Home Depot afterward can yield plenty of other ways to off yourself.

[Newtonian 453]

Right. We have the highest gun-suicide rate in the world. That's the bad news. The good news is we are something like 24th among civilized countries in suicide rate. 

 

Check out the list on this site: http://cut.gd/AbQ9

 

You can perhaps argue that Belarus, Russia, or Moldova are not first-world countries. But they are European, Christian, and share many of our values (however you define the term). 

 

The Japanese, despite their almost categorical banning of guns, somehow find means to self-slaughter at a rate approximately 90% higher than ours. 

 

You can't trivialize suicide. I feel sorry for individuals who kill themselves or contemplate it, and for their loved ones. Except for certain extenuating circumstances, the act is too sad for words. 

 

Guys who kill themselves at gun ranges probably don't realize the harm they do to us, as suicides in general do not comprehend the hurt they leave behind. Or maybe they do.

 

But if there's one thing positive you can say about them: at least they didn't take anyone along. For a tortured, demented soul, that says something.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

I like the idea that you have to have your own gun to rent. It should prevent at least one kind of range suicide. 

 

At least, for the time being, we'll have to disagree. You know my issues from PMs.

 

I understand the logic behind the requirement, but the restriction would present a problem for me, as we've discussed.

 

Anyway, hopefully, it will be resolved soon.

[PeteF 1,044]

I like the idea that you have to have your own gun to rent. It should prevent at least one kind of range suicide. 

 

Yeah that works out real well for first time gun buyers trying to find a gun they like. Or maybe an out of town enthusiast who wants to relax and blow off steam at a range?  If you are going to kill yourself there is NO WAY that you can be stopped. For example: Kid steals car drives 100 mph into traffic, Person jumps off bridge, person steps in front of train etc.  So why waste time effort and money to prevent something that can't be stopped?

[HBecwithFn7 296]

Yeah that works out real well for first time gun buyers trying to find a gun they like. Or maybe an out of town enthusiast who wants to relax and blow off steam at a range?  If you are going to kill yourself there is NO WAY that you can be stopped. For example: Kid steals car drives 100 mph into traffic, Person jumps off bridge, person steps in front of train etc.  So why waste time effort and money to prevent something that can't be stopped?

 

Because, when those other things happen off of range property, the range isn't liable for them. When it happens on range property and/or with range owned firearms that are rented to the person, it's a huge liability issue and a potential for the range to be closed to *all*. 

 

I understand that the range needs to protect its interests, even if it becomes a problem for me. But, hopefully, the range and I can work something out if it comes to that.

[Newtonian 453]

This is a tough, tough issue. No easy answers or solutions. I am not saying that my recommendation would solve every aspect of this problem.

 

I hope that people in that frame of mind will seek help. Sometimes it seems as if nobody, nothing, can help. UNTRUE.

[mipafox 438]

 

This is a tough, tough issue. No easy answers or solutions. I am not saying that my recommendation would solve every aspect of this problem.

 

I hope that people in that frame of mind will seek help. Sometimes it seems as if nobody, nothing, can help. UNTRUE.

 

If anyone reading this ever feels this way, and needs someone to talk to, please please contact me at [email protected]. I'm not a psychologist or M.D., but I'm a good talker. Christalmighty that's about the only thing I do very well.

 

 

It's a non-issue. If you want to make a difference, teach people to swim.

[Holeshot 3]

If you want to make a difference, teach people to swim.

 

Or stock vending machines

[DeerSlayer 241]

Yeah that works out real well for first time gun buyers trying to find a gun they like. Or maybe an out of town enthusiast who wants to relax and blow off steam at a range? If you are going to kill yourself there is NO WAY that you can be stopped. For example: Kid steals car drives 100 mph into traffic, Person jumps off bridge, person steps in front of train etc. So why waste time effort and money to prevent something that can't be stopped?

 

"LIABILITY"

 

For the same reason my insurance company forced me to fence in my entire backyard for a 4'deep above ground swimming pool. Someone could commit suicide in it. Im sure the 4.5' high chain link fence will work to keep that from happening. Maybe it will because the only person that could jump into my pool and kill themselves by drowning other than a child who couldn't reach the ladder and un lock it, would be an Oompa Loompa. A 4.5' fence should keep their Slippery chocolate covered fingers from getting to my pool. Did I mention I live a block away from the largest lake in NJ. But Farmers Insurance company is worried someone will tie a concrete block to their legs and off themselves in my pool. Exactly the reason ranges that rent guns should have checks and balances. For liability reasons, some family member of the suicide victim will try and sue the range for the loss of their loved one. Blaming the range for allowing it to happen.

 

 

First time gun buyers or If you don't have any guns yet, and that makes you angry that the range owners have to protect their means to feed their own families. Pretty one sided thinking and selfish. How would you like it if you were in the port plinking away, and the dude with a rental walks in next to you and blows his brains out? There not singling any one out to be dicks they're protecting their ass'es.

 

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[BlueLineFish 615]

What is eventually going to happen is that rentals will require a staff member to be with you at all times

[areacode201 4]

I wonder what happens to the rental guns used this way.  I'm sure the police take them as evidence at first.  Are they returned to the range/store?  Are they put back in rental rotation?  I know at the end of the day a gun is just pieces of metal/polymer but I'd be a little spooked knowing I was renting a gun someone used to end their life.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

What is eventually going to happen is that rentals will require a staff member to be with you at all times

Joe, in some ways that isn't a bad idea. I was at Brick Armory once a few years ago. Two girls rent a gun, one of them walks back into the store carrying the gun, finger inside the trigger guard, says the gun stopped working. Dude, I was about to hit the floor! The guy at the counter grabs the barrel and points it at the floor as quick as he could. Tells her she must put the gun in the gun bag when not using it. She was like, ok, but it isn't working so what's the big deal.................. I never went back there after that day.

[DeerSlayer 241]

^^^^ imagine that happened at Cherry Ridge? (Not that they rent guns anyway) The RO's wouldnt be able to talk for weeks after all the screaming hahhaha!

 

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[HBecwithFn7 296]

What is eventually going to happen is that rentals will require a staff member to be with you at all times

 

I could certainly live with that, as long as I could still rent without owning. And I'd be willing to go at days/times when they weren't all that busy and could afford to be with me.  Again, this is only a temporary situation for me. I hope to join the ranks of owners soon. Just gotta get "bureaucracied up."