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Scorpio64

My List of Stupid AR Questions

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I've decided to buid an MSR in 5.56.  I'm the kind of guy that researches the s#!t out of stuff when it comes to major purchases or projects.  Over the course of a fourtenight I've been doing my homework and have a pretty good basic grasp of what it will take to build a solid reliable MSR in 5.56, or possibly 6.8SPC.  The standard technical stuff is pretty straight forward but once the words "New Jersey" are added to the mix, that's where things gets murky.

 

So here's my list of dumb questions.

 

1) What's the legal and functional difference between a muzzle break, a flash hider, flash suppressor and a compensator.  It seems that the word compensator is the least objectionable to the State.  I do not want a muzzle break that will add a loud bark, just want to tame the flame and keep the muzzle on a flat plane.

 

2) Threaded barrels.  Even though the state considers a muzzle device as a substantially identical component of a scary black gun, it appears they are legal here in NJ as long as they are welded on.  Since I'm building my own custom rifle, will I run into problems ordering a threaded barrel and compensator and then having the compensator welded to the muzzle.  If I was building a varmint rifle with a 20" barel this would not really be an issue as I'd want a nice crown, but I'll be getting a 16" or 18" medium to heavy profile barrel and probably should address the issue of fireballs puking out of the business end.

 

3) Magazines.  I think I know the anser to this one but....  Can I get 20 or 30 round blocked mags and still be legal.  Can I block my own mags.  IS there such a thing as a legal 30 round magazine, as in, can I buy a 30rd magazine that was manufactured in 1980 and still be legal?  I dont really mind the 15 round limit, but I much prefer the profile  of a normal standard capacity magazine.

 

4) After the barrel, the BCG is probably the next most important component.  I know I want a MPI tested BCG, and at the very least, it should be chrome lined.  What is up for debate is the material.  It seems NiB is very popular.  Is the advantage of NiB great enough to justify the cost?  I clean my firearms after every outting, is it even an issue?

 

5) Grenade launchers.   Wheee, that would be fun but since I have no grenades and really dont see a need for them, the notch on the M4 profile barrel seems superfluous.  Barels with that profile, however, are quite a bit less expensive.  Can I get an M4 profile barrel as long as there is not a mounting stud for the M-203.

 

6) Fixed stocks.  I'm probably going to get the skeleton stock but may go with the standard MagPul.  Is pinning an adjustable stock legal?

 

7) Matched upper and lower.  Is it all that and a bag of chips?  Matched sets do not seem all that more expensive so I will pay the premium if there really is that much of a difference.  Is it enough just to have the upper and lower come from the same manufacturer.  In theory, I should be able to get the upper and lower from two different sources and they shoud work just fine, byt that's just a theory.  How does it work in real life?

 

8) Once the rifle is all together and proven to function reliably, I will probably do a custom paint job with Cerakote.  Will Cerakote go over any metal finish?

 

So that's my short list of stupid questions.  I'm sure more will follow.  Any help is appreciated.

 

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No such thing as a stupid question, especially regarding firearms laws in NJ.

 

I'll see if I can answer a few questions for you before I have to run...

 

1). The prohibited item in NJ is a 'flash suppressor', or' flash hider'. If the device is designed to minimize muzzle flash, than it's not legal in NJ.

Brakes, and comps are legal, as long as they do not reduce flash signature. Pretty subjective.

General rule of thumb, if you can fit your finger in the end of a muzzle device, then no, it's probably not legal in the state of NJ.

For an idea of what I mean, check out the business end of the Battlecomp. For some reason, the site won't allow me to post a link. Google is your friend here.

 

2) I would say that no, you wouldn't have an issue as long as you don't have all the parts to make a functioning rifle; IE: the lower receiver.

Others can chime in here, but I would imagine that would be safe. FWIW, I sent my unthreaded uppers off to Adco to thread, pin, and weld my muzzle devices.

 

3) 20 or 30 round mags that are perminantly blocked to accept no more than 15 rounds are legal.

Buying 30 round mags and blocking them at home in the sate of NJ is a no-no. You CAN DIY, but you can't have possession of the unblocked mags in NJ.

Plenty of vendors here that sell blocked mags, not worth the time to DIY if you ask me.

All of my NJ legal Pmags come from Midwest PX. I like them.

 

4) Buy a standard, mil spec BCG. Don't worry about fancy coatings. Worry if they are made from the mil spec grade steel, and are HP/MPI tested.

A well oiled, standard phosphate finished BCG will be easy to clean. No special coatings needed.

 

5) You can have an M4 profile barrel. NO grenade launchers. No fun allowed in NJ.

 

I misread your question a bit. The lug you refer to is for a bayonet. That little piece of metal makes your AR into an assault rifle, according to the lawmakers of the state of NJ. Therefore, the evil bayonet lug must be removed.

Another example of the brilliance of our lawmakers in Trenton.

 

 

6) Pinning an adjustable stock IS legal.

You can pin the stock in any position you desire. It just cannot collapse. I think it is almost the stupidest law I have ever heard of, right behind the evil bayonet lug.....

 

7) Mil spec parts are designed to be interchangeable. One of my favorite rifles is a Colt MT6700 lower with a PSA 20" Govt profile upper. Works just fine, and fits perfectly.

 

8) I have no direct experience with Cerakoat, but I understand it will work over a clean, oil free metal surface.

 

I'm sure others will chime in, and I'll edit as required to get my point across when I have more time.

 

Cheers!

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I've decided to buid an MSR in 5.56.  I'm the kind of guy that researches the s#!t out of stuff when it comes to major purchases or projects.  Over the course of a fourtenight I've been doing my homework and have a pretty good basic grasp of what it will take to build a solid reliable MSR in 5.56, or possibly 6.8SPC.  The standard technical stuff is pretty straight forward but once the words "New Jersey" are added to the mix, that's where things gets murky.

 

So here's my list of dumb questions.

 

1) What's the legal and functional difference between a muzzle break, a flash hider, flash suppressor and a compensator.  It seems that the word compensator is the least objectionable to the State.  I do not want a muzzle break that will add a loud bark, just want to tame the flame and keep the muzzle on a flat plane.

 

All muzzle brakes increase the report of the rifle. The law regarding brake vs flash hider is convoluted and difficult to figure out. Your best bet is to browse the AR pictures thread and pick a muzzle device that you like from the photos and use it on your build.

 

2) Threaded barrels.  Even though the state considers a muzzle device as a substantially identical component of a scary black gun, it appears they are legal here in NJ as long as they are welded on.  Since I'm building my own custom rifle, will I run into problems ordering a threaded barrel and compensator and then having the compensator welded to the muzzle.  If I was building a varmint rifle with a 20" barel this would not really be an issue as I'd want a nice crown, but I'll be getting a 16" or 18" medium to heavy profile barrel and probably should address the issue of fireballs puking out of the business end.

 

If your muzzle device can be unscrewed with a wrench, your barrel is considered threaded. Pinning/welding is the preferred method of permanently attaching a muzzle device in NJ, and we have several vendors who will perform this service for you. Another option is a crowned barrel with a muzzle break that is attached with set screws.

 

3) Magazines.  I think I know the anser to this one but....  Can I get 20 or 30 round blocked mags and still be legal.  Can I block my own mags.  IS there such a thing as a legal 30 round magazine, as in, can I buy a 30rd magazine that was manufactured in 1980 and still be legal?  I dont really mind the 15 round limit, but I much prefer the profile  of a normal standard capacity magazine.

 

Any magazine over 15 rounds, assembled or not assembled, is not permitted in NJ. There are no pre-ban mags here. You cannot pin your own mags in NJ, but you could do it out of state. At the prices offered by our vendors it is silly to do the pinning yourself. Just buy mags from a vendor.

 

4) After the barrel, the BCG is probably the next most important component.  I know I want a MPI tested BCG, and at the very least, it should be chrome lined.  What is up for debate is the material.  It seems NiB is very popular.  Is the advantage of NiB great enough to justify the cost?  I clean my firearms after every outting, is it even an issue?

 

I will divert to those more knowledgeable in BCGs to answer this.

 

5) Grenade launchers.   Wheee, that would be fun but since I have no grenades and really dont see a need for them, the notch on the M4 profile barrel seems superfluous.  Barels with that profile, however, are quite a bit less expensive.  Can I get an M4 profile barrel as long as there is not a mounting stud for the M-203.

 

The mounting stud is for a bayonet, not a grenade launcher. The bayonet lug as it is called is an 'evil feature' and needs to be ground off to be legal in NJ.

 

6) Fixed stocks.  I'm probably going to get the skeleton stock but may go with the standard MagPul.  Is pinning an adjustable stock legal?

 

Yes. Check out the new Magpul fixed MOE however. In order to pin a stock, the generally accepted way is a blind pin from one side into the buffer tube(lower portion, not the hollow part of the tube).

 

7) Matched upper and lower.  Is it all that and a bag of chips?  Matched sets do not seem all that more expensive so I will pay the premium if there really is that much of a difference.  Is it enough just to have the upper and lower come from the same manufacturer.  In theory, I should be able to get the upper and lower from two different sources and they shoud work just fine, byt that's just a theory.  How does it work in real life?

 

All uppers fit all lowers. Some may have more play, but IMO if you use decent manufacturers you'll never have a problem. There may be slight color differences between manufacturers.

 

8) Once the rifle is all together and proven to function reliably, I will probably do a custom paint job with Cerakote.  Will Cerakote go over any metal finish?

 

Never played with Cerakote. IMO I would just paint it.

 

So that's my short list of stupid questions.  I'm sure more will follow.  Any help is appreciated.

 

Hope that helps.

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In regards to a BCG, yes, at a minimum, you want an magnetic particle inspected bolt.  I'm personally starting to waver on high pressure testing.  The reason is I have spoken with or read firsthand accounts from respected industry members such as Knights Armament and Centurion Arms that high pressure testing is extremely detrimental to a bolt's useful life.  Commercially, people have been trained to want them HPTed because that's what the military requires.  However, if you look at the M4A1 spec, bolts are to be replaced every 3,000 rounds.  LMT recommends replacing theirs every 6K.  Meanwhile, my branded bolts which are only MPIed, go 20K+ without a hiccup.  I know of another vendor who is currently running his T&E bolts to failure but after 80K rounds through machine guns at his rental range, cannot get them to fail.  And guess what, his are only MPIed too.  He's actually contemplating offering a lifetime guarantee on his branded bolts, the kind where if the bolt breaks, he replaces it at no charge.  

 

The other reason why I'm starting to move away from HPT being required is it doesn't catch every bad bolt.  Earlier this year, there was a batch of bad bolts that a manufacturer in Kansas City sold to a ton of dealers all over the country.  The heat treat on those bolts was incorrectly done and the bolts were shearing within a magazine of use.  Even though they had been HPTed, they weren't caught because it took a few rounds to actually break the bolt lugs.  So while HPT may catch some issues during production, it won't catch them all.

 

As far as materials are concerned, Carpenter 158 and 9310 are the only two milspec alloys on the current military print.  I've asked every BCG manufacturer I've talked to about the difference in the two materials and they say that they're both fine steels but give the edge to 9310 because it's more resistant to cracking.  Even though they cost me more, I choose to have my bolts made from 9310 because of this.

 

Of the various platings that are currently offered, it's my opinion that phosphating is more than adequate for the majority of users.  My personal guns are all using phosphated BCGs.  Nickel boron (real NiB, not electroless nickel) is a pretty decent upgrade however I don't find it to be an absolute must-have.  They are self-lubricating, more corrosion resistant, and make for easier cleaning.  Real nickel boron also will not chip, flake, or wear, with use.  It will, however, accept carbon deposits and grow darker with use which drives some people nuts because they like the golden look.

 

Some critical things to watch for with BCGs:

 

9310 or C158 bolt that is magnetic particle inspected (high pressure testing optional)

Chrome lined carrier bore and gas key

Investment cast OR forged gas key

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Is the main issue with threads becasuse a noise supressor can be attached?  I really do not want a break, maybe a compensator to hold the barrel down but I doubt I'll be doing much rapid fire anyway.  I tend to savor each round.  Lets say I get a threaded barrel and have a boring crowned tip welded on.  Can I then legally attach a clamp on break to it?  The way I see it, there's little point to having anything but a flash hider on the end of a 16" barrel.  If I cant have that then I'll probably just go with a 20" crowned muzzle.  I'm seriously considering building my AR in 6.8 SPC so I may be better off with a longer crowned barrel anyway.

 

It's kind of pathetic that NJ only allows a muzzle device that makes a rifle louder and more obnoxious.

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Is the main issue with threads becasuse a noise supressor can be attached? I really do not want a break, maybe a compensator to hold the barrel down but I doubt I'll be doing much rapid fire anyway. I tend to savor each round. Lets say I get a threaded barrel and have a boring crowned tip welded on. Can I then legally attach a clamp on break to it? The way I see it, there's little point to having anything but a flash hider on the end of a 16" barrel. If I cant have that then I'll probably just go with a 20" crowned muzzle. I'm seriously considering building my AR in 6.8 SPC so I may be better off with a longer crowned barrel anyway.

 

It's kind of pathetic that NJ only allows a muzzle device that makes a rifle louder and more obnoxious.

Yes, you can attach a clamp on style comp to your crowned barrel. Perfectly legal, as long as it's a comp/brake, and not a flash hider, or suppressor.

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i think you are getting a bit too hung up on the whole break/comp thing. if you dont want one then just get a standard un-threaded barrel and problem solved. if you want to reduce recoil/muzzle flip get a comp. if you want to reduce felt recoil get a brake. it would help us point you in the right direction if we knew what role you want to the gun to have. HD? bench rest shooting? general SHTF?

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So I bought two stripped lowers today at Bullseye Tactical.  Lert the build begin!

I'm shopping around for a BCG and could use some recommendations.  I kind of like the look of NiB, are they worth the extra money?  Looks aside, what should I really be looking for in a BCG?  So many finishes to choose froom.

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So I bought two stripped lowers today at Bullseye Tactical.  Lert the build begin!

I'm shopping around for a BCG and could use some recommendations.  I kind of like the look of NiB, are they worth the extra money?  Looks aside, what should I really be looking for in a BCG?  So many finishes to choose froom.

the finish is probably the last thing to worry about. worry about what type of steel its made from and how it is tested. is it milspec and MPI tested? midwestpx probably has the best answer in his post above. he knows his shit. when i decide to build my next AR i will probably buy most of my parts from him.

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Here's one more stupid question.

 

I'm going with an 18" medium profile barrel and a free float tube forestock that I want to cover the gas block.  Initially I was looking at mid length gas ported barrels, and they should work very well.  However, I think I like the look of a carbine length tube better than the mid length tube.  So, if what I read about gas port length in relation to barrel length is correct, a carbine length gas port on an 18" barrel will be pretty harsh on the bolt.  If I go with a carbine length port will an adjustable low profile gas block solve any and all pressure issues?  Are adjustable blocks more trouble than they are worth?

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1) good luck finding an 18 inch barrel with a carbine length gas system. I've never seen one.

2) It'll beat the crap out of the bolt as well as increase gas port erosion.

3) why would you want 11" of barrel poking out the front of a 7" handguard? It'll look absurd. A carbine with a 16" barrel has about 9" poking out. An 11" rifle length guard would get you close, but it won't cover the gas block unless you get an 18" barrel with a mid length gas system. Those are generally available.

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an 18 inch barrel with a carbine length gas tube is really bad idea in my opinion. there is absolutely no reason to do that and you would probably run into a lot of problems internally. a mid length would work a hell of a lot better but a rifle length would probably be the best on an 18 inch. you're worrying about something that you will never see or even notice physically. get a low profile gas block and an 11+ inch handguard/rail and you will be much better off. plus it'll give you a longer sight radius.

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After doing some more research it turns out that there are 18" barrels with carbine length gas ports set up with adjustable gas blocks.  A few companies tried them out but discontinued them but they can be ( and on occasion still are) made to order.  It also turns out they are squirrely as hell, nobody has posted anything anywhere about one that operates well.  The reason I ask the stupid questions is because there are too many times I have read about others saying something seemed like a good idea at the time.  I still think I would like to look better, but it's not all about looks is it?  I am into a more traditional look with firearms and I think the problem is I'm trying to make a black gun that looks proportionally more like a traditional rifle.  It just ain't gunna happen.

 

I am now leaning towards an 18"  Wilson Combat 416 stainless recon contour (Wilson's fancy name for medium profile) possibly fluted,  with a mid length gas port.

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