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On 10/11/2019 at 2:03 PM, W2MC said:

 and you have a situation where the Amateur Radio Service has been relegated to backup of the backup status, and isn't really needed anymore. 

 

ooohhh...it's needed. just not by "them" and they don't want anyone that may stnd in their way to have any comms should they decide the opposition shouldn't......

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9 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

ooohhh...it's needed. just not by "them" and they don't want anyone that may stnd in their way to have any comms should they decide the opposition shouldn't......

it's the forestry service...don't over think this.

1 hour ago, Iggyort said:

I plan to take my license test in January. 

20191218_185035.jpg

Excellent!

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Nice rig. Amazing that Icom, Yaesu and Kenwood have been in the games this long. I still have my FT-101E and TS-930S. It's still a trip to talk halfway around the world without a hard wire.

And, as Nelli Ohr realized, most of that communication path is out of the range of the NSA and similar organizations. Your conversation doesn't wind up in a Utah data center.

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...its fun as all hell....but its dead.....i chased grid squares in satellite and 50mhz....it was busy as hell.....  

 

Now...dead...no young blood...no one cares...no one is interested...  my .02...  go for it...in 6mo youll sell the rig....  BUT dont...  when the shtf...  THATS when it will be relevant again.

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US Rifle is correct. I've been on HF for almost four years. I make contacts almost daily, but I'm still waiting for someone to respond to a non-contest CQ. I'm sortof mentoring someone who wants to get into HF for "prepping." I'm torn between telling this person to go whole hog, like I did, and advising that an HT, 6/2/70cm, 10m for TX/RX, and maybe an old 80m rig (at least for listening) is probably all they need. In fact CB is infinitely more useful than most ham bands. If the S ever HTF everybody and his brother will be pulling out their CB rigs.

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Well, S kinda HTF - so I'm getting into HAM now.  What's the best way to equip my family (local, same town) with radios for easy COMMS?  Can I go MURS, GMRS?  FRS / store bought dewalts aren't good enough on range.  I'm researching HAM but not sure how to use it for person-to-person comms (hiking, running around town, talk to friends a few miles away).

 

And, once you get a TECH/General license how can you have private conversations over radio?

 

I've got a Baofeng UV-5R, I'm working through manually and with CHIRP but don't know what channels to look for or program for central Jersey/NYC Metro/.

 

I'm looking up the local volunteer rescue squads, emergency broadcasts, weather... 

 

I feel like you definitely need a mentor for something like HAM, with a rich history but a dull future. @USRifle30Cal, @Newtonian, @Iggyort, @Scorpio64, @W2MC

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3 minutes ago, eesee said:

Well, S kinda HTF - so I'm getting into HAM now.  What's the best way to equip my family (local, same town) with radios for easy COMMS?  Can I go MURS, GMRS?  FRS / store bought dewalts aren't good enough on range.  I'm researching HAM but not sure how to use it for person-to-person comms (hiking, running around town, talk to friends a few miles away).

*****I don’t know a lot about the other services.  For ham hand held around town you are thinking repeaters.

And, once you get a TECH/General license how can you have private conversations over radio?

***short answer - you can’t .

codes and ciphers are prohibited.

I've got a Baofeng UV-5R, I'm working through manually and with CHIRP but don't know what channels to look for or program for central Jersey/NYC Metro/.

***look up/google ‘ham repeaters’ in your area.  Most of them are run by clubs.  You’d do well to find a local club.  The ARRL (arrl.org) has a list and a search engine.

 

I'm looking up the local volunteer rescue squads, emergency broadcasts, weather... 

 

I feel like you definitely need a mentor for something like HAM, with a rich history but a dull future. @USRifle30Cal, @Newtonian, @Iggyort, @Scorpio64, @W2MC

W2MC

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I know I have much to learn, trying to figure out what "tones" and "offset" are used for.  I'll keep digging.

 

Any books/websites you recommend?

 

Any private 2-way radios to look at aside from HAMS?

 

Is RHA Communications in East Brunswick a good local resource?

http://rhacommunications.com/

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@eesee - A couple of things:

- Ham isn't an acronym, and isn't all-caps. It's just "ham". 

- You can't have private conversations on amateur bands legally. You can't send encrypted or obfuscated signals, period. Amateur radio is for public communication over the airwaves. Not entirely sure what level of privacy you're looking for, but honestly, the most private modes of electronic communication are internet protocols that support end-to-end zero knowledge encryption. 

- If you want your family to use the radios while not under your direct supervision, and care about being legal, FRS or GMRS is the way to go. Your amateur license gives you the right to operate on certain bands; that doesn't extend to your family, or anyone not directly being supervised by you. You must be the station operator. FRS is free, but limits the amount of power you need. A GMRS license is something like $75 for 8 years (don't remember all the details; I got mine 3 years ago), and it does extend to immediate family. You could set up a 50w mobile unit in your home and/or car, and give your family HT's, and you should be able to get over a mile, depending on conditions. 

And you should stop by a local club -- search online at the ARRL's website to find one near you. And yes, you should look for a mentor. In ham-speak that's referred to as an "Elmer" for historical reasons I don't know. 

Also, at my club, I'm in the bottom 5% age wise, and I'm in my mid 40's, and relatively new to the hobby. The old dudes are really great, but just be prepared for this reality. 

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37 minutes ago, eesee said:

I know I have much to learn, trying to figure out what "tones" and "offset" are used for.  I'll keep digging.

***yup.  first study and get a license/call sign.  Hams will generally not talk to you without one.

Shift/offset - Repeaters 'listen' on one frequency and transmit on another.  the Shift or Offset is the difference between receive and transmit.  For example, the shift for 2 meters is typically 600 khz; either + (600 KHz up) or - (600 Khz down).  These are somewhat standardized, though there are exceptions.

Tone - Years ago, Motorola developed a system it called "Private Line" or PL, where the repeater is listening for a certain tone on the frequency before it will "turn on" the repeater.  It was a sales gimmick (hey! you can have a private line!) but its really very useful to prevent interference between different repeaters on the same frequency (even when they are distant, without a PL you could key-up several repeaters on the same frequency....very confusing.   Most repeaters also transmit the PL, which can work the same way for your ht; quieting the radio until it hears the transmitted tone.   

Any books/websites you recommend?

***It's been awhile  There are a bunch.  HRO or KJI (see below) probably have some.  Amazon also has many.  https://www.amazon.com/Ham-Radio-Exam-Prep-Technician-ebook/dp/B07HVMGHB7

Any private 2-way radios to look at aside from HAMS?

***No idea.  I have no experience with any of it.

Is RHA Communications in East Brunswick a good local resource?

http://rhacommunications.com/

***for ham?  No.  You want something like Ham Radio Outlet (HRO) in Delaware (https://www.hamradio.com/) or KJI Electronics in Cedar Grove (https://www.kjielectronics.com/). 

 

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Eesee,

It sounds like GMRS or FRS is the way you should go. These radios provide pretty good range, probably more than you'll ever need. I once stood on a ridge in Stillwater (Sussex county) and was able to reach stations in Long Island on UHF, which is the frequency range for GMRS, FRS, and some ham activity. I would not bother getting a ham licence, however. The technician class license is relatively easy to get but the only privileges it grants is repeaters, which are dead as doornails. You also have limited privileges in another band that is also quite dead. 

My advice is to get a name brand walkie talkie, specifically designated for GMRS, which allows higher power than FRS.  Buy at least two and experiment in your preferred locations, see what it does for you. I believe you will be able to modify these radios for higher performance but I'm not sure about that.

Now, if you want a taste of ham radio you can program the OUTPUT frequencies ONLY for local repeaters into your Baofeng. Repeaters are stations that receive on one frequency and transmit on a different one. The reasons are unimportant, but you'll be able to listen in on repeater chatter. The only problem is that NOBODY is on the repeaters. You could wait a very long time before you hear humans. 

Maybe a better way for you to get your feet wet is to buy a used "shortwave" receiver and listen in on the amateur bands. You could also buy an inexpensive amateur radio for this but you will NOT be authorized to transmit on that radio. 

If you have any more questions we are happy to help.

P.S. I do not believe the store you mentioned will be able to help. Get your help from hams here first. If you are serious we will provide additional resources as your knowledge and interest grow. They may or may not!!

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Interesting points.

Also, I have never found the preppers to have much interest in what the ham radio groups did. 

What I have found is most preppers would show up for a few club meetings, get us to program their Baofengs/Wouxuns, find out that ham radio isn't "prepper" enough for them, (they're looking for SHTF or TEOTWAWKI, while amateur radio is really a techno-hobby), and never be seen again.

W2MC

 

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In SHTF situations local communications are all that will be needed. You'll be hard pressed to get food or water from the guy in Albania you talk to on your "big" radio. CB is ideal for local communications, as are 2m, 70cm. The 70cm band includes the FRS and GMRS frequencies. EESEE, look into CB radio!

One other point: ham radio is practically dead. The local clubs don't do much related to radio. They try but the membership is old and ailing. Many of these fine people have served amateur radio for 50 years, and they are tired. Can't blame them really as getting newbies to study and learn is an uphill battle. Takes 2 to tango.

I discovered something very interesting this past week about hams. I used to say that politically, hams were further to the right than 2A groups. On the matter of reopening, though, many old hams appear to be still quite fearful. Individuals who normally say "all the right things" politically, who usually operate on facts and numbers, are being extra cautious, even deferential, to the forces that would incarcerate us for going to the barber but not for burninig down the barber shop.

I originally bristled at this inconsistency but my position is now, "let him who is without irrational fear cast the first stone."

I hate crowded elevators and once took a cab from downtown Manhattan to Hoboken because the crowded Path train gave me an anxiety attack. I have not been in an airplane in 20 years. I will no longer visit New York City. On and on.

What are you afraid of?

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57 minutes ago, Newtonian said:

I discovered something very interesting this past week about hams. I used to say that politically, hams were further to the right than 2A groups. On the matter of reopening, though, many old hams appear to be still quite fearful. Individuals who normally say "all the right things" politically, who usually operate on facts and numbers, are being extra cautious, even deferential, to the forces that would incarcerate us for going to the barber but not for burninig down the barber shop.

They're also primarily of the age groups that are most likely to have fatalities and complications from COVID. And they're typically fairly wealthy and retired, so the economic effects of the shutdown don't effect them. Finally, their primary socialization is chatting over the air with people from far away from the comfort of their shack, so they don't suffer there either. 

I'm sitting pretty myself as well in this. I'm a software engineer that's consulting for a Fortune 500 healthcare company. I've been working from my spare bedroom since early March. I like video games, and have had more time recently because I no longer commute. Hell, I just found out that Cherry Ridge is open, so I can resume shooting this weekend. The only thing that's driving me crazy is the perfidious Cardinal in Newark has rolled over and suspended masses in the Archdiocese. My wife and kids aren't quite as well adjusted as I am to this -- they're all extroverts. 

And I don't see this as a left/right thing. I think it's based on who's most effected by it. Rich white liberals or people on the dole aren't effected, but people that work for a living in "non-essential" jobs are kinda screwed right now. Ordinary middle class people, small business owners, restaurant workers, etc.

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Great observations, Cecil. It's difficult to gauge sentiment of 120-130 local hams on this but from a recent poop-storm initiated by me on one of their mailing lists, it's obvious that most are still uncomfortable with lifting restrictions. Your demographic profile was spot on: men in their mid-late 70s with multiple health issues, retired.

I was originally surprised (again, still operating in the Left-Right paradigm) but now I'm understanding the dynamics of opening a bit better.  Fear is more powerful a motivator than sex, and I have been as guilty as anyone. Two months ago I was cleaning off every blueberry with concentrated sulfuric acid to remove viruses. 

CR is my range as well. If you'd ever like to swap viruses -- I mean implements of death -- I mean shoot my Ultimate Revolver Collection while CW'ing with Vlad from Romania -- let me know.

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Ok, so assuming there is limited power and bad cell phone service during an emergency storm or event - what products would you purchase from Midland? https://midlandusa.com/

 

I want to LISTEN to emergency broadcasts.  This could be on HAM, but I would suspect that even FM stations would be playing emergency messages.

I want to have a power source.

I want to TALK to my neighbors within a 5 mile radius.

I want to communicate with family over 70 miles away.

**bonus** For actual use I would want to be able to use the radio at Hershey Park/Disney/Resort with the most channel combinations**

 

Is ham really just for transmitting to repeaters, or could it be two-way communication? Specifically, is it repeaters that get a specific frequency assigned and then licensees can broadcast TO the repeater for anyone tuned in to listen to?  Or can two ham radio licensees jump on any frequency and start talking with each other?  It's such a basic question because nobody has ever taught me the basics.

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A repeater merely REPEATS the signal, thereby doubling (approximately) the distance over which you can communicate.

No unlicensed radio allows you to talk to anyone more than a few miles away. An exception is during rare "openings" when you can hit stations hundreds of miles away on 2m, 10m, 11m (cb). Counting on your friends and/or family to get licensed is a very, very bad bet. They won't, you'll be disappointed, and they won't invite you over for Ramadan next year.

Listening is very easy. They sell scanners but I know nothing about them, other than they're expensive.

Hershey park: Use inexpensive GMRS. Your kids, your uncle, will NOT get licensed no matter how much you think you like ham radio. They will not. I believe some GMRS radios have scrambling capability but ham radios do not. Everything you say on the ham bands is public. Anyone anywhere can listen in. Obscuring the meaning of your transmissions is illegal.

 

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1 hour ago, eesee said:

**bonus** For actual use I would want to be able to use the radio at Hershey Park/Disney/Resort with the most channel combinations**

Unless you have family members without cell phones (an increasingly uncommon occurrence), just use cell phones at the parks.  You're not going to be there in a SHTF scenario, and the phones are smaller, lighter, offer secure communication, and they can do a lot of other things.  The tracker capability is particularly useful if you are trying to keep track of kids.

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Yes, but cell phones don't have those cute antennas any more,, or curse in Chinese :)

4 years ago I was on my way home from the Middletown hamfest, on Rte. 84 heading west, when my serpentine belt blew. It was a beautiful day and I was able to hit three repeaters from where I was, plus 146.520 and 446000, the VHF and UHF calling frequencies. So I called, and called, and called for about 30 minutes. I even tried "SOS" a couple of times. Nada.

Luckily my phone was charged. Ten minutes after turning the expensive handheld off I was in a tow truck headed for the nearest open mechanic.

Any ham who brags about "emergency" or SHTF operation is presenting a very optimistic picture of the hobby's capabilities. There simply aren't enough people on the air. I used to take my handheld everywhere, but after several years of going to big metro areas without making a single contact, I now leave it home. 

PS last summer during a 9 day road trip my only QSO (contact) was verbal. A fellow ham at a tourist site saw my callsign hat and said hi. That was it for having my radio on several hours every day.

 

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2 hours ago, eesee said:

I want to LISTEN to emergency broadcasts.  This could be on HAM, but I would suspect that even FM stations would be playing emergency messages.

I wouldn't assume anything about local radio, especially FM stations. Up here in Sussex County every time we had a terrible power outage (like for over a week) the local stations (all of them) broadcast NOTHING about what was going on. Totally useless.

The original reason I got into ham radio in the 80's was so I could use the phone patch on local 2 meter repeaters. Once cell phones came out that reason evaporated.

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Yes. I actually forgot to renew my Extra Class license in the 90's. Four years ago I found out about the grandfather program, so I took the Technician test and they sent me an Extra Class license.

Hey, I did that 20 WPM code. So that renewed license is my reparations!

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Ham radio, sadly is dead.......

 

@eesee

Ur wasting your time.....

 

Buy some 27mhz radios to talk to family.....and the PROPER antenna and ground wave will carry the 70 miles....AMHIK

 

THEY WONT BUY INTO IT...!   AMHIK

 

if you want direct info...ask a few direct questions....sorry i didn't read the whole thread...

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The problem with 27 mhz (CB band) is you need a pretty long antenna. I have a handheld CB but I've never spoken to anyone on it. 30cal is right if you use 27 mhz as your base station and UHF/vhf for handheld/portables.

Your family and friends will do a lot of eye-rolling if you try to get them into this. Believe me I've tried. Plus unless you and yours belong to a band of nomadic gather-hunters or a professional hiking group the occasions in which any radio beyond WalMart walkie talkies will be of use are almost nonexistent.

I understand though that prepping is an end in itself, a hobby, a way of life. How many rounds of ammo do you have? Any chance on God's Green Earth, even if we were in a civil war, that you'd use more than 100 or so before you bit the dust? Like stockpiling ammo for Armageddon ham radio It's fun, it's cozy, it's a fraternity, but in the long run probably not that useful.

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10 hours ago, Newtonian said:

The problem with 27 mhz (CB band) is you need a pretty long antenna. I have a handheld CB but I've never spoken to anyone on it. 30cal is right if you use 27 mhz as your base station and UHF/vhf for handheld/portables.

Your family and friends will do a lot of eye-rolling if you try to get them into this. Believe me I've tried. Plus unless you and yours belong to a band of nomadic gather-hunters or a professional hiking group the occasions in which any radio beyond WalMart walkie talkies will be of use are almost nonexistent.

I understand though that prepping is an end in itself, a hobby, a way of life. How many rounds of ammo do you have? Any chance on God's Green Earth, even if we were in a civil war, that you'd use more than 100 or so before you bit the dust? Like stockpiling ammo for Armageddon ham radio It's fun, it's cozy, it's a fraternity, but in the long run probably not that useful.

You can NEVER have too.much ammo....

 

 

Comms are important...VERY much so...but to center it around HAM radio is folly.

 

What do you need...unit?  Squad? Platoon? Company? Level comms...

 

If its monitoring?  Long wire and a good multi band radio...  grundig 700?  But even shortwave is all religious shit....

 

If it is truly shtf....  ALL devices will light up....unless it is an EMP...which is next....  

 

I can say mark.my words..but it will all be toast and lost.... 90% die off first year.... you will hope u had that ammo....  @Newtonian  :)

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