Ham radio

[Carcano 14]

There's a LOT involved with setting-up your own ham radio repeater; both technical and paperwork-wise (repeater coordination).  You dont just plug it in and start playing.

 

Not for ham but for GMRS, no coordination is required for a GMRS repeater.

 

I wouldn't say a lot is involved with the GMRS repeater, pay for your GMRS license on the FCC website and once the call appears in ULS you are legal and can start putting GMRS gear on the air.

 

The Maxtrac repeater is simple, get two GM300/MaxTrac radios (make sure they are the 16-pin version) and most repeater interfaces include a CW-ID which is easy to program. I keep the two antennas spaced 18 feet apart, they are 30 feet up. No duplexer, this is a true plug and play GMRS repeater that just about anyone can setup. Remember, you MUST ID in voice when using it so I have the call-sign printed out and taped on all my radios so whoever is using it knows the call and to ID.

 

The programming can be tricky, I have Motorola software for just about every radio Motorola produced and the correct-spec computer w/ RIB. It gets expensive fast since the software isn't cheap and Motorola is (or was) picky about who they would sell it to. It's cheaper to mail the MaxTrac radios to a two-way programming service (expect to pay $20 per radio plus S&H both ways, Priority flat rate is the best way to ship them due to weight).

 

You can legally use that Kenwood repeater on GMRS. You can turn the output down to 5 Watts on those Kenwood repeaters IIRC. I know on my MaxTracs that was a walk in the park it's a software setting ("low-power", IIRC). 

 

BTW, You do not have to coordinate a HAM repeater, FCC will favor the coordinated one should complaints be filed but no FCC regulation requires this.

[Carcano 14]

This is what my setup looks like: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HAM-GMRS-UHF-FM-Repeater-444-479mHZ-Programmed-to-your-choice-of-frequencies-/281723631317?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41980976d5

 

I use two Arrow GP146/440 antennas: http://www.arrowantennas.com/gp/gp146.html

 

Coax is 2 x 50 foot runs of LMR-400

 

Two cheap aluminum tripods and 8 foot section of aluminum tubing for masts, bolted to roof.

 

Power supply is generic switching type, I got it for $20 used a couple years ago.

[W2MC 1,699]

Not for ham but for GMRS, no coordination is required for a GMRS repeater.

 

I wouldn't say a lot is involved with the GMRS repeater, pay for your GMRS license on the FCC website and once the call appears in ULS you are legal and can start putting GMRS gear on the air.

 

The Maxtrac repeater is simple, get two GM300/MaxTrac radios (make sure they are the 16-pin version) and most repeater interfaces include a CW-ID which is easy to program. I keep the two antennas spaced 18 feet apart, they are 30 feet up. No duplexer, this is a true plug and play GMRS repeater that just about anyone can setup. Remember, you MUST ID in voice when using it so I have the call-sign printed out and taped on all my radios so whoever is using it knows the call and to ID.

 

The programming can be tricky, I have Motorola software for just about every radio Motorola produced and the correct-spec computer w/ RIB. It gets expensive fast since the software isn't cheap and Motorola is (or was) picky about who they would sell it to. It's cheaper to mail the MaxTrac radios to a two-way programming service (expect to pay $20 per radio plus S&H both ways, Priority flat rate is the best way to ship them due to weight).

 

You can legally use that Kenwood repeater on GMRS. You can turn the output down to 5 Watts on those Kenwood repeaters IIRC. I know on my MaxTracs that was a walk in the park it's a software setting ("low-power", IIRC). 

 

BTW, You do not have to coordinate a HAM repeater, FCC will favor the coordinated one should complaints be filed but no FCC regulation requires this.

 

OK - didn't know you meant GMRS repeaters....I dont know much about them.  The GMRS pairs must have some significant separation, frequency-wise, to get away with closely-spaced antennas instead of a set of filters.

 

And you are technically correct - you don't HAVE to coordinate repeaters in amateur service; however, in the densely populated northeast, there are very few repeater pairs available - in my area (SNJ) there are NO unclaimed 2 meter repeater pairs, for example, and very few on the higher bands.  Trying to drop-in an uncoordinated repeater anywhere in NJ is just begging for trouble.

[Carcano 14]

OK - didn't know you meant GMRS repeaters....I dont know much about them.  The GMRS pairs must have some significant separation, frequency-wise, to get away with closely-spaced antennas instead of a set of filters.

 

And you are technically correct - you don't HAVE to coordinate repeaters in amateur service; however, in the densely populated northeast, there are very few repeater pairs available - in my area (SNJ) there are NO unclaimed 2 meter repeater pairs, for example, and very few on the higher bands.  Trying to drop-in an uncoordinated repeater anywhere in NJ is just begging for trouble.

 

If you are lucky you can still find Standard RP 70U UHF repeater, it's 15 watts but can be turned down by any tech with a copy of the schematic in a matter of minutes. They have a built in duplexer and are crystal controlled. On the GMRS band you do not have to re-tune the cans only if you want it on the 440.

 

Those were great repeaters, the company is long out of business but made great repeaters...I think they shuttered in the 80's?

 

Yep, if you want a 144 or 440 machine up and on the air get it coordinated not required but it's the right thing to do.

[Carcano 14]

Yesterday I finished up repairing a FT-857D, the previous owner tried to do the MARS/CAP mod and destroyed two diodes next to the jumpers. Yaesu shipped me the diodes and I cleaned the board up and installed them, reversed the jumpers to the factory configuration and did a reset. Works like a champ

 

This is way too small for me to solder so I used a circuit writer pen to install the diodes and do the jumpers, a bit sloppy but it's a success.

 

Last night from 8PM to 1AM the 10M band was open, I worked DE, NC, VA, FL, AZ, KY, PA, and OH on 10M....multiple stations, a lot of them were new techs and had never worked anyone outside of the local area on 10M before.

 

20, 40 and 80 too many static crashes, etc...didn't try to work anyone but only managed to make out a few stations on those bands.

 

6M was open, too, but I didn't bother to work it.

[Carcano 14]

Not sure if anyone with HF is up but if so listen to 14.245

 

A station going by the call "D0B" is operating a small pile up from Donetsk People's Republic (DNR), very strong 59+ in SJ.

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot 358]

SCARC hamfest this Sunday 7/12 at Sussex fairgrounds. Anyone know if it's worth the trip?

[Newtonian 453]

SCARC hamfest this Sunday 7/12 at Sussex fairgrounds. Anyone know if it's worth the trip?

I'll be attending for a number of reasons. It's close, I'm a SCARC member, and I need to pick up some stuff.

 

From what I've heard and read it's much larger than your typical hamfest. I've been to two others that I thought were, er, small. 

[Newtonian 453]

Anyone have any experience with end-fed HF antennas?

[Carcano 14]

Interesting catch on VHF in SJ tonight, I keep 154.250 in all of my radios (local FD frequency) but usually on CSQ...heard NYFD Manhattan Dispatch / mobile units Battalion 2., confirmed it was FDNY Manhattan based on PL and street names given....I've heard this 4 or 5 times this year so far but this time incredibly strong S9+10

[Newtonian 453]

Here's the deal. I'm itching to get into HF. Two radios interest me: Yaesu 817ND and Yaesu 857D, 5W and 100W respectively. 

 

(I know you warned me against a QRP as my first HF).

 

Problem is the radio ($599 or $899) is just the beginning. Decent power supply to use with a future high-power HF rig, $250. CW and SSB filters which should come on these danged radios, $250. Antenna tuner $200. On-board DSP ($200). High-cap battery ($90). Homebrew antenna(s) $40 for parts, my time).

 

Suddenly a $600 radio costs $1600.

 

Is this typical? Does it really cost more to get into amateur radio than it costs to start out in shooting or skiing?

 

What do you guys suggest. The money isn't a significant barrier, but I hate diving into something like this, a new adventure, at this price point. My past hobby, chess, costs like $15 for a decent plastic board and set and $35 for a clock.

[Silence Dogood 468]

Anyone have any experience with end-fed HF antennas?

 

No direct experience but end-fed is supposed to increase the likelihood of RF on station equipment, with potential burns, IIRC.

[Carcano 14]

Here's the deal. I'm itching to get into HF. Two radios interest me: Yaesu 817ND and Yaesu 857D, 5W and 100W respectively. 

 

(I know you warned me against a QRP as my first HF).

 

Problem is the radio ($599 or $899) is just the beginning. Decent power supply to use with a future high-power HF rig, $250. CW and SSB filters which should come on these danged radios, $250. Antenna tuner $200. On-board DSP ($200). High-cap battery ($90). Homebrew antenna(s) $40 for parts, my time).

 

Suddenly a $600 radio costs $1600.

 

Is this typical? Does it really cost more to get into amateur radio than it costs to start out in shooting or skiing?

 

What do you guys suggest. The money isn't a significant barrier, but I hate diving into something like this, a new adventure, at this price point. My past hobby, chess, costs like $15 for a decent plastic board and set and $35 for a clock.

 

I would get the FT-857D over the FT817, the FT817 is designed to be potable but so is the FT857 and FT-857D. 

 

Check QRZ.com (under classifieds) and eBay for the FT-857, I've seen them for between $500-$600 used and new is $750 or so and up.

 

Again, antenna turner and power supply...can you settle for used ones? a used tuner can be had for sub-$80 and a nice Astron power supply for sub-$100.

 

I do not use filters on my FT-857D's, both radio are stock from Yaesu and TX/RX audio is very good, I have no problem picking out weak signals on SSB and never bought the filters as I felt it wasn't necessary.

 

I send machine CW, haven't played with a paddle in a while. Again, no CW filters on the ones I own.

 

$250 is crazy for filters, here are some 2.7 Khz narrow filters for SSB and CW at $60 shipped (each) http://www.ebay.com/itm/CW-SSB-2-7K-narrowband-filter-compatible-with-YF-122S-For-YAESU-FT-817-857-897-/261620917900?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ce9d2668c so if you must get the filters you are in $120 for a set of SSB and CW filters.

 

Don't feel bad/strange/unsure buying used equipment, most start out with used equipment.

 

Assuming the FT-857D can be had used for $600, the filters (both SSB and CW) at $120 for the pair, tuner for $80 and a decent DC supply for $100 you are in $900 give or take for a complete station, coax cost will depend on the cable type and how long of a run you need.

 

Have you looked into OCF Windom dipoles? I have one and have had nothing but great success with it. I paid $70 for mine new and it's lasted 4 winters and the last couple storms without damage up about 30' feet on a fiberglass pole. Very low SWR, I do not need a tuner on 6/20/40 meters with it.

[W2MC 1,699]

This is one of the reasons I continually preach that, for a new ham, your best bet is to get with a club!  

 

Hamfests and club sales/auctions are a great source of hardware on the cheap.  Used power supplies and tuners tend to be rock-solid reliable, and in many cases can be had for pennies on the dollar.  Older rigs and antennas pop-up frequently, too.

 

Also, it is very true that ham radio tends to be an old man's hobby, and most clubs offer their services to get all the antennas down and the hardware gathered-up and sold-off for the family of the dearly departed.  If its known that someone is looking for something, or setting-up a new station, etc, the equipment tends to be channeled in that direction.

[Newtonian 453]

This is one of the reasons I continually preach that, for a new ham, your best bet is to get with a club!  

 

Hamfests and club sales/auctions are a great source of hardware on the cheap.  Used power supplies and tuners tend to be rock-solid reliable, and in many cases can be had for pennies on the dollar.  Older rigs and antennas pop-up frequently, too.

 

Also, it is very true that ham radio tends to be an old man's hobby, and most clubs offer their services to get all the antennas down and the hardware gathered-up and sold-off for the family of the dearly departed.  If its known that someone is looking for something, or setting-up a new station, etc, the equipment tends to be channeled in that direction.

I am with a club, the Sussex Cty. ARC. They meet 8-9x a year (supposedly once per month for 10 months, except when it's too cold and the members might freeze and their arms would break off like the bad guy in the Schwarzenneger movie) for exactly one hour. During contests they're contesting. Not saying I could not have learned something from Field Day but I doubt anyone would have spent 2 hours answering all my questions, and I have many. I would have to spend 20 field days, until I'm 81, just learning the hobby, by which time I'd have forgotten what I learned this year. And I have a General class license.

 

ARRL, in my opinion, should focus their licensing tests towards practical radio operation. What do you need to get on the air? How do you conduct yourself during a -- not sure whether it's a QSO or QSL. You buy a radio, now what else do you need? I've known Ohm's and Kirchoff's laws since I was 10 years old. Lot of good that does me, or anybody who does not design electronic circuits.

 

BTW I've been to three hamfests. Nothing but nothing at all is on sale unless you're willing to pay for a pig in a poke. Same for the classifieds. I don't consider a 10% discount -- and that's generous -- good enough incentive to buy used. The "great deal" story line is by and large a myth. Maybe once in a while something happens, like...

 

We have a friend whose father recently died, who supposedly has a room full of equipment. I've been waiting for six months to see that stuff. Yawn.

 

I've had numerous serious hobbies in my life. Chess, bridge, shooting, coins. I'm still active in all of them. I've never encountered one so impenetrable as this one. I'm going to keep trying but eventually I will get tired and move on to something else.

 

Yeah I'm bitching. What else is new?

[1LtCAP 4,262]

This is one of the reasons I continually preach that, for a new ham, your best bet is to get with a club!  

 

Hamfests and club sales/auctions are a great source of hardware on the cheap.  Used power supplies and tuners tend to be rock-solid reliable, and in many cases can be had for pennies on the dollar.  Older rigs and antennas pop-up frequently, too.

 

Also, it is very true that ham radio tends to be an old man's hobby, and most clubs offer their services to get all the antennas down and the hardware gathered-up and sold-off for the family of the dearly departed.  If its known that someone is looking for something, or setting-up a new station, etc, the equipment tends to be channeled in that direction.

except that they still seem to think that us wanting to do cb are assholes. kinda like i got the impression that a few of you here think.

[Newtonian 453]

except that they still seem to think that us wanting to do cb are assholes. kinda like i got the impression that a few of you here think.

Sorry if you got that impression. All the guys here have been great to me and I'm several notches below CB. I'm like the kid with the tin cans and the string at this juncture. 

[W2MC 1,699]

I don't know much about Sussex County....but...did you GO to Field Day?

 

As for the questions.....if you get involved with testing, you can submit new questions to do exactly what you mention.  The question pools are on 4 year rotations.

 

I see and buy 'deals' all the time.  Ya gotta be there....

 

You've been waiting 6 months to "see" the SK's estate.  Did you offer to help move, clean, categorize, and test that room full of stuff?  I've done it....its a tremendous amt of work.

 

I dunno about this hobby being impenetrable.  I've found it to be the opposite.  BUT...you have to put forth the effort.  No one will go out, grab you, and drag you in.

 

 

Jon

W2MC

 

 

 

I am with a club, the Sussex Cty. ARC. They meet 8-9x a year (supposedly once per month for 10 months, except when it's too cold and the members might freeze and their arms would break off like the bad guy in the Schwarzenneger movie) for exactly one hour. During contests they're contesting. Not saying I could not have learned something from Field Day but I doubt anyone would have spent 2 hours answering all my questions, and I have many. I would have to spend 20 field days, until I'm 81, just learning the hobby, by which time I'd have forgotten what I learned this year. And I have a General class license.

 

ARRL, in my opinion, should focus their licensing tests towards practical radio operation. What do you need to get on the air? How do you conduct yourself during a -- not sure whether it's a QSO or QSL. You buy a radio, now what else do you need? I've known Ohm's and Kirchoff's laws since I was 10 years old. Lot of good that does me, or anybody who does not design electronic circuits.

 

BTW I've been to three hamfests. Nothing but nothing at all is on sale unless you're willing to pay for a pig in a poke. Same for the classifieds. I don't consider a 10% discount -- and that's generous -- good enough incentive to buy used. The "great deal" story line is by and large a myth. Maybe once in a while something happens, like...

 

We have a friend whose father recently died, who supposedly has a room full of equipment. I've been waiting for six months to see that stuff. Yawn.

 

I've had numerous serious hobbies in my life. Chess, bridge, shooting, coins. I'm still active in all of them. I've never encountered one so impenetrable as this one. I'm going to keep trying but eventually I will get tired and move on to something else.

 

Yeah I'm bitching. What else is new?

[W2MC 1,699]

except that they still seem to think that us wanting to do cb are assholes. kinda like i got the impression that a few of you here think.

 

No quite.  I've listened to 11 meters, and there's nothing there I would want to listen to.

[Newtonian 453]

No quite.  I've listened to 11 meters, and there's nothing there I would want to listen to.

I never have. Seriously: Is it worse or on par with 2m repeater chat?

[robot_hell 72]

Are you guys talking about shooting skip on 11 meter AM? I've only ever listened in, but it's nothing at all like 2m repeater chat. The fade makes conversations (if you could call them that) rushed and more like DX QSOs than anything else.

[Newtonian 453]

I don't know much about Sussex County....but...did you GO to Field Day?

 

As for the questions.....if you get involved with testing, you can submit new questions to do exactly what you mention.  The question pools are on 4 year rotations.

 

I see and buy 'deals' all the time.  Ya gotta be there....

 

You've been waiting 6 months to "see" the SK's estate.  Did you offer to help move, clean, categorize, and test that room full of stuff?  I've done it....its a tremendous amt of work.

 

I dunno about this hobby being impenetrable.  I've found it to be the opposite.  BUT...you have to put forth the effort.  No one will go out, grab you, and drag you in.

 

 

Jon

W2MC

1. Could not attend FD due to family commitments; didn't think setting up in the pouring rain would be fun on Saturday.

2. It's more the approach towards licensure than any specific questions, although as noted the band plan questions are ludicrous. Print it out or program it into your Xceiver if possible.

3. I've been to 3 ham fests and never saw a deal that made me think "wow." I admit I am very green and don't always know what I'm looking at. I've been happy with the full-price things I've bought however.

4. She offered everything for $100 and I counter-offered to pay market price and help her sell the rest. Problem is her mother has fallen ill so she's preoccupied with that. 

5. I'm a big hobby guy: stamps, coins, insects, rocks, mushrooms, gardening, competitive chess and bridge, hunting, shooting at various times in my life. At least 2-3 going on at all times. I got my Tech license after studying for I forget maybe 7-10 hours, and my general after studying for 20-30 minutes/day for a few weeks. That was easy for me. Where you go from there and what you need to do it is not so easy, not so straightforward. 

 

But not to worry I know the slow scan TV frequencies.

 

BTW stopped by KJL Electronics yesterday in Cedar Grove. Gene Niemiec K2KJI spent an hour schooling me on the basics of HF equipment. When I'm ready I will purchase my equipment from him.

[djg0770 481]

Gene is good people.

[1LtCAP 4,262]

1. Could not attend FD due to family commitments; didn't think setting up in the pouring rain would be fun on Saturday.

2. It's more the approach towards licensure than any specific questions, although as noted the band plan questions are ludicrous. Print it out or program it into your Xceiver if possible.

3. I've been to 3 ham fests and never saw a deal that made me think "wow." I admit I am very green and don't always know what I'm looking at. I've been happy with the full-price things I've bought however.

4. She offered everything for $100 and I counter-offered to pay market price and help her sell the rest. Problem is her mother has fallen ill so she's preoccupied with that. 

5. I'm a big hobby guy: stamps, coins, insects, rocks, mushrooms, gardening, competitive chess and bridge, hunting, shooting at various times in my life. At least 2-3 going on at all times. I got my Tech license after studying for I forget maybe 7-10 hours, and my general after studying for 20-30 minutes/day for a few weeks. That was easy for me. Where you go from there and what you need to do it is not so easy, not so straightforward. 

 

But not to worry I know the slow scan TV frequencies.

 

BTW stopped by KJL Electronics yesterday in Cedar Grove. Gene Niemiec K2KJI spent an hour schooling me on the basics of HF equipment. When I'm ready I will purchase my equipment from him.

it's always good when someone takes their time like that. one amongst us has helped me IMMENSELY with my cb questions. i took it to pm, 'cause most of you guys were being kinda dicks about it(not you)....and one jumped straight to the conclusion that i was looking for illegal.

 

 i might move up to ham eventually though........

[Kevin125 4,772]

No quite.  I've listened to 11 meters, and there's nothing there I would want to listen to.

 

W2MC. Great meeting you today btw.

[W2MC 1,699]

W2MC. Great meeting you today btw.

And you as well

 

Jon

W2MC

[Newtonian 453]

Serious question. I've never used CB but what is the difference between CB and 2m/.7m repeater chat?

[Old Dog 19]

I hold an Extra License and found that during emergencies my thousands of dollars of radio equipment was useless. First off you need power and emergency power only lasts so long. Secondly, all emergency communications is usually encrypted or limited to trained ham radio operators. Thirdly, during an emergency we are asked to stay off the air so that they official emergency operators can use the frequencies. Lastly, the information you receive from other regular people is usually contradictory or just plain wrong.

 

I live in Florida where we get tornados and hurricanes. During the last hurricane the air waves were quiet. All emergency communications was done by authorized ham radio operators and was digital and encrypted. I bought a digital scanner for emergency use to supplement my own equipment and all the emergency agencies are now encrypted so it is useless.

 

You have to remember that only other ham operators can hear you so you cannot reach family, etc.. I have handi talkies, scanners and a HF radio. Not one of them was of use during the emergencies here. What was useful was the internet. I was able to reach my family members and get accurate information from trusted sources. Since I am not one of the people who think things will get so bad that we will lose all alternate forms of communications for any length of time, I find my cell phone to be the best thing to use in an emergency. A lot of ham radio operators confuse what is truly an emergency. Finding out if others are OK is good to know but not an emergency. Information for information sake is not an emergency. Also make a note of how long it takes to get a message from another State to a non ham operator sometime. You can ride a horse there faster.

 

Just have not had any good experience with ham radio during weather emergencies here.

[Newtonian 453]

I hold an Extra License and found that during emergencies my thousands of dollars of radio equipment was useless. First off you need power and emergency power only lasts so long. Secondly, all emergency communications is usually encrypted or limited to trained ham radio operators. Thirdly, during an emergency we are asked to stay off the air so that they official emergency operators can use the frequencies. Lastly, the information you receive from other regular people is usually contradictory or just plain wrong.

 

...

 

Just have not had any good experience with ham radio during weather emergencies here.

 

Your cell phone will eventually run out as well but you can do a lot more with it while it's charged than with an HF transceiver.

 

BTW as a newly minted General class licensee I'm about to take the plunge into HF but I have no illusions about prepping in general or the potential role of amateur radio in emergency situations. To me HAM is a fascinating hobby, that's all.

 

Like I respond to the "bug in, bug out" threads: If it ever reaches that point -- or the situation where operating CW on 80 meters might conceivably make a difference -- you're going to be dead very shortly anyway.

[1LtCAP 4,262]

I hold an Extra License and found that during emergencies my thousands of dollars of radio equipment was useless. First off you need power and emergency power only lasts so long. Secondly, all emergency communications is usually encrypted or limited to trained ham radio operators. Thirdly, during an emergency we are asked to stay off the air so that they official emergency operators can use the frequencies. Lastly, the information you receive from other regular people is usually contradictory or just plain wrong.

 

I live in Florida where we get tornados and hurricanes. During the last hurricane the air waves were quiet. All emergency communications was done by authorized ham radio operators and was digital and encrypted. I bought a digital scanner for emergency use to supplement my own equipment and all the emergency agencies are now encrypted so it is useless.

 

You have to remember that only other ham operators can hear you so you cannot reach family, etc.. I have handi talkies, scanners and a HF radio. Not one of them was of use during the emergencies here. What was useful was the internet. I was able to reach my family members and get accurate information from trusted sources. Since I am not one of the people who think things will get so bad that we will lose all alternate forms of communications for any length of time, I find my cell phone to be the best thing to use in an emergency. A lot of ham radio operators confuse what is truly an emergency. Finding out if others are OK is good to know but not an emergency. Information for information sake is not an emergency. Also make a note of how long it takes to get a message from another State to a non ham operator sometime. You can ride a horse there faster.

 

Just have not had any good experience with ham radio during weather emergencies here.

much cell phone service was down here after the storm a couple weeks ago.