Malsua 1,422 Posted August 16, 2020 5 hours ago, tony357 said: I have decided to hook up to power panel after this last outage, we generally do not loose power here their are no trees, with that said since the closing of Waretown generating station we lost power for one day. During sandy we lost power for only 8 hours and in general have never lost power before that. I have a Coleman 6500k gen that i use for welder it is about 15 years old so i decided to upgrade for this install will also help since new welder is also larger to replace welder lost in sandy. Went with portable green power of America 9500 kw will post parts ordered and install as i do it. Will be using dedicated breaker to switch power over in panel with lock out plate will be able to run whole household off this genset. will have total of 60 amp service with the PB30 and genset line. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Green-Power-Green-Power-12000-9500-Watt-Electric-Start-Gasoline-Powered-Portable-Generator-w-460cc-16HP-LCT-Engine-Lithium-Battery-GN12000CEW/314036507 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-Controls-30-Amp-Power-Inlet-Box-PB30/202213702?keyword=pb30&semanticToken=d03t00r231220000_c87d2b6eabc2055023b1ef3aeab0f9b4_1597561865373+d03t00r231220000+>++cnn%3A{0%3A0}+cnp%3A{10%3A0}+cnd%3A{4%3A0}+cne%3A{8%3A0}+cns%3A{5%3A0}+cnx%3A{3%3A0}+cnq%3A{0%3A0}+cnw%3A{0%3A0}+cnv%3A{0%3A0}+st%3A{pb30}%3Ast+oos%3A{0%3A1}+dln%3A{572047}+tgr%3A{SkuExactMatch}+smf%3A{ca%2Cbr}%3Asmf+nf%3A{1}%3Anf+qu%3A{pb30}%3Aqu https://www.homedepot.com/p/Conntek-20-ft-10-4-30-Amp-125-250-Volt-4-Prong-L14-30-Transfer-Switch-Generator-Red-Extension-Cord-20601-020/309328340 Wow, that's an inexpensive generator for that kind of wattage. That'll easily run everything unless you have 3 ton ACs or whatever. Did you consider a generlink? They are a little extra, but you don't have to dick around with breakers. Not quite an automatic switch but pretty close. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sota 1,191 Posted August 16, 2020 6 hours ago, tony357 said: I have decided to hook up to power panel after this last outage, we generally do not loose power here their are no trees, with that said since the closing of Waretown generating station we lost power for one day. During sandy we lost power for only 8 hours and in general have never lost power before that. I have a Coleman 6500k gen that i use for welder it is about 15 years old so i decided to upgrade for this install will also help since new welder is also larger to replace welder lost in sandy. Went with portable green power of America 9500 kw will post parts ordered and install as i do it. Will be using dedicated breaker to switch power over in panel with lock out plate will be able to run whole household off this genset. will have total of 60 amp service with the PB30 and genset line. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Green-Power-Green-Power-12000-9500-Watt-Electric-Start-Gasoline-Powered-Portable-Generator-w-460cc-16HP-LCT-Engine-Lithium-Battery-GN12000CEW/314036507 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-Controls-30-Amp-Power-Inlet-Box-PB30/202213702?keyword=pb30&semanticToken=d03t00r231220000_c87d2b6eabc2055023b1ef3aeab0f9b4_1597561865373+d03t00r231220000+>++cnn%3A{0%3A0}+cnp%3A{10%3A0}+cnd%3A{4%3A0}+cne%3A{8%3A0}+cns%3A{5%3A0}+cnx%3A{3%3A0}+cnq%3A{0%3A0}+cnw%3A{0%3A0}+cnv%3A{0%3A0}+st%3A{pb30}%3Ast+oos%3A{0%3A1}+dln%3A{572047}+tgr%3A{SkuExactMatch}+smf%3A{ca%2Cbr}%3Asmf+nf%3A{1}%3Anf+qu%3A{pb30}%3Aqu https://www.homedepot.com/p/Conntek-20-ft-10-4-30-Amp-125-250-Volt-4-Prong-L14-30-Transfer-Switch-Generator-Red-Extension-Cord-20601-020/309328340 don't get that inlet box. get the one that faces down. doesn't strain the cable you also forgot an interlock kit for your backfeed breaker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted August 16, 2020 34 minutes ago, Sota said: don't get that inlet box. get the one that faces down. doesn't strain the cable you also forgot an interlock kit for your backfeed breaker. He said "Will be using dedicated breaker to switch power over in panel with lock out plate" I agree about the down angle one. GE makes a box. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper 6,372 Posted August 16, 2020 8 hours ago, tony357 said: Will be using dedicated breaker to switch power over in panel with lock out plate will be able to run whole household off this genset. will have total of 60 amp service with the PB30 and genset line. If you're hooking the genny up with that 30 amp cord to the whole panel, you're not going to be able to run your A/C and air handler off of it. Just because you're feeding the whole panel, doesn't mean you can run whatever you want. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10X 3,278 Posted August 16, 2020 On 8/8/2020 at 9:02 AM, 10X said: Can anyone recommend a repair shop in Morris county to fix a portable Generac 5500? The compression release mechanism froze a day or two ago, making it nearly impossible to start. Fortunately, we got our power back a couple of hours ago I’ll check and adjust the valve clearance today, but if that doesn’t do it, I think I’d want to farm out pulling the cam. Problem solved, I adjusted the valve clearance yesterday and it's back to being wonderfully easy to start. As is usually the case, there are YouTube videos that show the specifics. Interestingly, the manual recommends checking/adjusting the valves after the first 50 hours of use. The Hobbs meter on mine is showing 47 hours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SmittyMHS 603 Posted August 17, 2020 An interesting side note here. My buddy down the shore just got a 5500 watt Generac because ...well you know. Hooked it to his new Samsung fridge and POP! The breaker on the gen goes. Runs everything else in the house including a window AC unit, three 'puters and two 50" tvs. Tried it with nothing else on the line and still pops the genset breaker. Comes to find out that the new fridge needs an inverter type generator to power it. https://www.samsung.com/us/support/answer/ANS00085682/ WTF are they thinking? The most important thing to try to keep running and now you need a inverter to power it? I've been looking for a stand alone inverter for him just for the fridge but it looks like he's gonna have to get a sine wave UPS to plug in when he needs the fridge on emergency power. Anyone have any experience with a small stand along inverter just to smooth out the sine wave besides a UPS? I seem to remember something that had a bunch of large capacitors that kept the voltage constant and had a nice smooth sine wave filter. But that was years ago. Everything I found is 12, 24 or 48volt in 120 out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,120 Posted August 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, SmittyMHS said: Hooked it to his new Samsung fridge and POP! The GFCI outlets they put on gennys now are stupid sensitive. Look up GFCI ghost tripping, there are several reasons it happens, and it's usually a tweaky capacitor on the fridge. Another common reason for a ghost trip is a coiled 50 foot 10A cord feeding a fridge or other similar high surge demand doohicky. It causes enough induction to trip a GFCI. Was it the GFCI outlet that went pop, or the actual breaker on the generator front panel? I know a lot of folks who removed the outlets that came with the genny and put in either better GFCIs or straight outlets with other protection further up the line. It MAY void warranty or ability to sue if you electrocute yourself. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SmittyMHS 603 Posted August 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said: It MAY void warranty or ability to sue if you electrocute yourself. Yeah there's always that...lol I don't really know whether it was a breaker or a GFCI. He's a great who could totally build his own house. Just don't ask him to do more then flip a switch or plug something in as far as electrical. I'll have to ask him that. And how long a cord and was it heavy enough to not cause a voltage drop on start up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tony357 386 Posted August 18, 2020 On 8/16/2020 at 11:13 AM, Sniper said: If you're hooking the genny up with that 30 amp cord to the whole panel, you're not going to be able to run your A/C and air handler off of it. Just because you're feeding the whole panel, doesn't mean you can run whatever you want. Ac only needs 3200 watts to run, I also have Boost capacitor on my ac unit. only other appliances i have just fridge my whole house is natural gas. I really only need half the gen i have but purchased it for my larger welder. i can actually continue to use my old gen at the house. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tony357 386 Posted August 18, 2020 On 8/16/2020 at 9:23 AM, Sota said: don't get that inlet box. get the one that faces down. doesn't strain the cable you also forgot an interlock kit for your backfeed breaker. kit came today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper 6,372 Posted August 18, 2020 1 hour ago, tony357 said: Ac only needs 3200 watts to run, I also have Boost capacitor on my ac unit. That's at least XX amps, not counting starting surge, my condensor pulls 19 amps running. Plus add in what the air handler fan needs, mine pulls 9 amps. Then add fridges and what ever else you want to run. Will it all exceed your 30 amp cord? Edit: calculator error.. 3200 @240 volts = 13 amps, plus surge..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SmittyMHS 603 Posted August 18, 2020 14.5@ 220Volts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,120 Posted August 18, 2020 11 minutes ago, Sniper said: That's at least 26 amps, not counting starting surge, my condensor pulls 24 amps running. What is the volume of your A/C unit? Most newer 220V 2.5 Ton units draw about 10 to 12 Amps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper 6,372 Posted August 18, 2020 6 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said: What is the volume of your A/C unit? Most newer 220V 2.5 Ton units draw about 10 to 12 Amps. I just went back and checked, it says minimum circuit amps 24, running load amps 19. Locked rotor, 101. 3.5 ton unit. I was going to try and fire it up with my 3200 watt genny (3800 surge), on a 30 amp cord the other day, but with surge amps of the A/C unit, combined with the surge amps of the air handler, I didn't want to take the chance of burning something up. Didn't think it could handle that load. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,120 Posted August 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Sniper said: combined with the surge amps of the air handler, The air handler for a unit that size should draw less than 3.5A. It can probably do it. I doubt anything will blow up, If everything is working the way it should, a breaker may trip. The compressor and handler motors usually don't kick on at the same time, so getting a double whammy surge is unlikely, but if it happens, that's what circuit breakers are for. It's also worth noting that the rated power requirement on most electrical and electronic gizmos is nominal. Even if the genny cannot provide the full rated power, equipment can still run as long as it's withing operational range. It won't be terribly efficient, but it will work. I learned that with my first genny that was a mere 1800/2200W. I hooked it up to my furnace via an ad-hoc power inlet (basically made a plug for it). The furnace operated just fine, but the blower motor did not spin up to full RPM. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper 6,372 Posted August 18, 2020 40 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said: The air handler for a unit that size should draw less than 3.5A. Blower is a 1/2 hp, so I believe that's approx. 9 amps running. 40 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said: The compressor and handler motors usually don't kick on at the same time, so getting a double whammy surge is unlikely, but if it happens, that's what circuit breakers are for. My blower and compressor start at the same time, when the thermostat calls for "cool". I should put my two amprobes on the lines and see what they pull. 40 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said: Even if the genny cannot provide the full rated power, equipment can still run as long as it's withing operational range. It won't be terribly efficient, but it will work. I learned that with my first genny that was a mere 1800/2200W. I hooked it up to my furnace via an ad-hoc power inlet (basically made a plug for it). The furnace operated just fine, but the blower motor did not spin up to full RPM. That's where my concern is. If the equipment struggles to start because of the combined load, a low voltage situation can burn up components. Really don't want to burn up capacitors, and then have a non-working unit, until I can get the replacement parts. I run a EMS surge protector on my RV just for that reason. It's popular for a campground to have low voltage situations when everyone fires up their A/Cs. So, if the EMS senses low voltage, it shuts down the system, and tries later, versus letting equipment burn up due to low voltage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjrfd99 88 Posted August 18, 2020 On 8/15/2020 at 2:32 PM, fishnut said: I have the same one. It powers everything we need in the house. Im very happy with it. Our neighbor has a Champion. IIRC china made. We have one as a backup to the Generac. He misused - added never changed oil - ran it constantly during Sandy and that china unit still is running. BTW When every store didn't have any, Camping World had them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tony357 386 Posted August 18, 2020 genset wont be here until mid september. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sota 1,191 Posted August 18, 2020 16 hours ago, SmittyMHS said: An interesting side note here. My buddy down the shore just got a 5500 watt Generac because ...well you know. Hooked it to his new Samsung fridge and POP! The breaker on the gen goes. Runs everything else in the house including a window AC unit, three 'puters and two 50" tvs. Tried it with nothing else on the line and still pops the genset breaker. Comes to find out that the new fridge needs an inverter type generator to power it. https://www.samsung.com/us/support/answer/ANS00085682/ WTF are they thinking? The most important thing to try to keep running and now you need a inverter to power it? I've been looking for a stand alone inverter for him just for the fridge but it looks like he's gonna have to get a sine wave UPS to plug in when he needs the fridge on emergency power. Anyone have any experience with a small stand along inverter just to smooth out the sine wave besides a UPS? I seem to remember something that had a bunch of large capacitors that kept the voltage constant and had a nice smooth sine wave filter. But that was years ago. Everything I found is 12, 24 or 48volt in 120 out. I got a pair of APC Smart UPS 1400RM2U units here I'm "retiring" from primary computer duties, if you're interested in playing shuttle duties or your buddy wants to come buy one. Otherwise, I recommend this and this company: http://www.refurbups.com/APC-SUA1000-Smart-UPS-1000 They're good to deal with, and I have been for almost 2 decades now. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted August 18, 2020 16 hours ago, SmittyMHS said: An interesting side note here. My buddy down the shore just got a 5500 watt Generac because ...well you know. Hooked it to his new Samsung fridge and POP! The breaker on the gen goes. Runs everything else in the house including a window AC unit, three 'puters and two 50" tvs. Tried it with nothing else on the line and still pops the genset breaker. Comes to find out that the new fridge needs an inverter type generator to power it. https://www.samsung.com/us/support/answer/ANS00085682/ WTF are they thinking? The most important thing to try to keep running and now you need a inverter to power it? I've been looking for a stand alone inverter for him just for the fridge but it looks like he's gonna have to get a sine wave UPS to plug in when he needs the fridge on emergency power. Anyone have any experience with a small stand along inverter just to smooth out the sine wave besides a UPS? I seem to remember something that had a bunch of large capacitors that kept the voltage constant and had a nice smooth sine wave filter. But that was years ago. Everything I found is 12, 24 or 48volt in 120 out. You don't need a UPS, you can use a line conditioner. This way you won't have to replace the battery every 4 years. For what it's worth, I have a relatively new(2017) Samsung fridge and it runs just fine off my 14kw standby. The standby is not an inverter but I have no idea how the power compares to a portable. The fridge is on a ARC Fault/GFCI combo breaker and has never tripped. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SmittyMHS 603 Posted August 18, 2020 14 minutes ago, Sota said: I got a pair of APC Smart UPS 1400RM2U units here I'm "retiring" from primary computer duties, if you're interested in playing shuttle duties or your buddy wants to come buy one. Otherwise, I recommend this and this company: http://www.refurbups.com/APC-SUA1000-Smart-UPS-1000 They're good to deal with, and I have been for almost 2 decades now. Of course you do! Cause I just got a APC BN1500M2 UPS for my puter room. "Nickle short and 5 minutes late" will be on my tombstone. Anyway I found out it was his GFCI that tripped, not the breaker and he was using a 50' extension cord rated @ 15 amps. Told him to up it to a 20 amp minimum 12 ga wire and as short as he can make it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sota 1,191 Posted August 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, SmittyMHS said: Of course you do! Cause I just got a APC BN1500M2 UPS for my puter room. "Nickle short and 5 minutes late" will be on my tombstone. Anyway I found out it was his GFCI that tripped, not the breaker and he was using a 50' extension cord rated @ 15 amps. Told him to up it to a 20 amp minimum 12 ga wire and as short as he can make it. well that'll do. I wouldn't want to run these for computers anymore, as they're both build date sometime in 1995, I've replaced the batteries countless times, and at least one of them like to bitch its tits off randomly but powers the load for the expected time. I'll probably keep them around for the "better than nothing for the time being" scenario(s) that will no doubt crop up at some point. And yea on that extension cord, I always looked at it like, house wiring is generally no smaller than 14ga solid, so if you're going to try and carry something power heavy, go up a size to 12ga. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SmittyMHS 603 Posted August 18, 2020 9 minutes ago, Malsua said: You don't need a UPS, you can use a line conditioner. This way you won't have to replace the battery every 4 years. For what it's worth, I have a relatively new(2017) Samsung fridge and it runs just fine off my 14kw standby. The standby is not an inverter but I have no idea how the power compares to a portable. The fridge is on a ARC Fault/GFCI combo breaker and has never tripped. I don't think a line conditioner is the answer here. More his extension cord or a fluky GFCI on his genset. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted August 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, SmittyMHS said: I don't think a line conditioner is the answer here. More his extension cord or a fluky GFCI on his genset. Probably. I have this Radial Arm saw that was working just fine. I put it in our shed and it wouldn't spin up! After a bunch of dicking around, I pulled it out, plugged it right into an outlet, BOOM, works fine. Turns out this big fat extension cable I was using was all insulation. It had 16 gauge wires in it. I put a right proper 20amp extension on it, works fine. Wires matter! Voltage drop matters! Of course, I spent a lot of time in 3rd world countries and their opinion of good voltage and mine varies significantly. It was common to see 96-98 volts in our factory in Honduras during the hottest parts of the day. On the 240 side, we'd dip down to 200ish. Fortunately, most 3-phase industrial equipment has transformers with taps for different voltages. We just put everything on the 208 taps and everything ran right as rain. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sota 1,191 Posted August 18, 2020 Does the genset have a non-GFCI outlet? it's possible the fridge don't like it I mention this because, years ago I had bought a new fancy washer/dryer set, and every major storm I'd blow up the washer's brain board. After the 3rd time (under warranty/service contract, thank god!) they sent a smart tech who noticed, the washer was plugged into a GFCI outlet. He said the boards don't like them and can cause them to explode. I thought he was full of it, but I swapped it to a non-GFCI protected outlet and never blew a board up again for the 10 years after that I had that unit. a water leak and rot did it in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper 6,372 Posted August 18, 2020 1 hour ago, SmittyMHS said: I don't think a line conditioner is the answer here. More his extension cord or a fluky GFCI on his genset. I'd even wonder about the extension cord. If the fridge is relatively new, they don't draw a lot. I recently bought a new GE 25 cu. ft.fridge, and the sticker says it pulls 1.5 amps and pulls 420 watts during the defrost cycle. You can pretty much run that on any standard extension cord. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SmittyMHS 603 Posted August 18, 2020 13 minutes ago, Sniper said: I'd even wonder about the extension cord. If the fridge is relatively new, they don't draw a lot. I recently bought a new GE 25 cu. ft.fridge, and the sticker says it pulls 1.5 amps and pulls 420 watts during the defrost cycle. You can pretty much run that on any standard extension cord. He's 2.5 hrs away or I'd go over and check it all out. Extension cords tend to take a beating so I told him to start with that. He's in construction so I'm not sure where the cord came from. If you know what I mean. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sota 1,191 Posted August 18, 2020 rode hard and put away wet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,120 Posted August 18, 2020 2 hours ago, SmittyMHS said: don't think a line conditioner is the answer here. line conditioner is always a good idea for electronics as it cleans up the signal, in addition to surge/overload protection. It's more for your gear than the genny. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sota 1,191 Posted August 18, 2020 god I wish I could have kept and used that symmetra. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites