The Generator Thread

[Sota 1,125]

my issue is, I run a biz from my home that requires 24/7 power (technically.)
it's one of the reasons I was looking at the split generator idea before.
I hate the idea of firing up a 10kW+ generator to supply a 2kW average draw.

[Sota 1,125]

eta: you know, I think I just answered my question about, can I supply different loads with different generator, and not blow shit up.
lemme finish waking up and I'll type up my thoughts.

[Zeke 5,495]

4 hours ago, Sota said:

eta: you know, I think I just answered my question about, can I supply different loads with different generator, and not blow shit up.
lemme finish waking up and I'll type up my thoughts.

Deep thoughts with Sota?

[Sota 1,125]

ballz deep, yo.

here was the question/problem: could I run a dedicated generator for the condenser, another for the rest of the house including the air handler, and not blow shit up?

here's why I think it's possible:
I have an APC UTS10BI transfer switch, that'll automatically switch between utility/generator/UPS power sources.  The way it connects is in-line with the feed from the breaker to each of 10 loads (9 technically, as one is a 240V). Now what that means is, only those 10 circuits will be on generator power. However, if utility comes back, the rest of the panel will then be on utility power, while at the same time those 10 circuits are still on generator power.  That is until the UTS switches back over, which takes about 5 seconds before it decides to do so.  ONLY the hots are switched; all the neutrals and grounds are tied together at the main panel. So i'm thinking, that's a pretty good demonstration that I can run the condenser and the air handler on different power sources, and not have the comms wires between them blow shit up.  If that's the case, I think I'll want to re-think my generator setup here; it gives me the option of having more than 1 generator available as source for different things.  I could split the ultra critical loads (servers and basement A/C, fridge, freezer) to a command-started generator of appropriate size (probably similar to the 5500W unit I have now.  maybe a bit smaller like the HF 3500W inverter generator) that's just to keep that working like I need it to, then figure out what i need to run the rest.

[WP22 1,499]

You are going to trust your most critical loads to a Harbor Fright generator? You are a braver man than I.

[Sota 1,125]

they use parts from the same factory that honda and subaru use.

the engines are predominantly subaru robin clones, and the gen heads are honda clones.

[Zeke 5,495]

2 hours ago, Sota said:

they use parts from the same factory that honda and subaru use.

the engines are predominantly subaru robin clones, and the gen heads are honda clones.

You need inline switches. The kind you get an electric supply house. 

[Sota 1,125]

link?

 

[Zeke 5,495]

7 minutes ago, Sota said:

link?

 

At the supply house. My subs say I’m dangerous.....

[Zeke 5,495]

24 minutes ago, Sota said:

link?

 

Sumtin like dis

https://m.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200196724_200196724

I can’t believe I googled fo you

[Scorpio64 3,218]

2 hours ago, Sota said:

they use parts from the same factory that honda and subaru use.

While the engines are exact Honda and Subaru clones, and many are very reliable, like Predator, you have to be careful with the lesser knockoffs.  Many years ago, I bought a 2200W Wen generator at Pep Boys, Wen was a good brand that, unknown to me, went bust and the name was bought by a Chinese company. 

The engine was a direct knockoff of a Honda GX series, even the carbs were interchangeable.  The generator ran great for a few  years but the tank rusted out, the carb kept getting gacked up and several small parts like screws, O rings and gaskets prematurely rotted away.  What finally killed it was the drive shaft bearing disintegrated, which caused the engine to overload and shut down abruptly, which fried the windings.  That's why they say never turn off a genny while it is under load.  That genny was made on the same assembly line as Honda gennys, but not with the same quality small parts.

 

 

[WP22 1,499]

While I'm not a brand snob there must be a reason why a Honda costs 5 times as much as a HF. And yeah, keep supporting China.

[Zeke 5,495]

@Scorpio64,  @WP22 give the guy some answers or move on. Jeebus you people will argue about a free blow job 

[Sota 1,125]

Some people, you can never please.

@zeke wonder if they make one that's double hard wired.

[Scorpio64 3,218]

13 minutes ago, Zeke said:

Jeebus you people will argue about a free blow job

I never give blowjobs for free.

Okay, you want answers, you got answers.  Put the circuits for gen A on main panel, put circuits for gen B on a sub panel with a disconnect switch.

[Zeke 5,495]

4 minutes ago, Sota said:

Some people, you can never please.

@zeke wonder if they make one that's double hard wired.

Dunno... google it. Or go to da supply house.

[Sota 1,125]

@Scorpio64 that's where I'm heading now for the future setup.

sub panel for the computers, fridge, freezer, maybe outside lights.

[Sota 1,125]

http://reliancecontrols.com/ProductDetail.aspx?CSR302

 

[RUTGERS95 693]

I was very happy with the storm responder I had during Sandy but this time, bought a generac gp6500 from home depot and kept it running 4 straight days.  Worked well, understand these are done in wisc or something.  reviews were good so what the heck

 

[Sota 1,125]

not gonna dis generac; they make good shit. pricey, but good.

if you ran it that long, do an oil change.

[Sota 1,125]

also...

Oh yeah! Generator is running smooth now. Replaced all the gas, drain the carburetor, ran on some straight seafoam for about 5 minutes, flooded the carburetor with liquid seafoam and let it sit for 20 minutes, filled it with fresh gas, topped it of with the rest the can of seafoam, ran it for 10 minutes to clear it out (BIG SMOKE SIGNALS), put a new spark plug in it, ran some more, and just finished tuning the power output by adjusting the governor, so I now have 133V no load, 125 volts 3kW load (pair of space heaters), and 115 volts at 6kW load (4 space heaters.)  Should be no issues with it next time I need it, unlike Tuesday when it clearly wasn't happy and would drop a phase randomly.

Go give your generators some love, people!!

[RUTGERS95 693]

4 minutes ago, Sota said:

not gonna dis generac; they make good shit. pricey, but good.

if you ran it that long, do an oil change.

2x 

[Sota 1,125]

kinda eyeballing their GP6500e.  That surge rating of 8125, combined with the idea of the 3500W inverter unit for full-time critical loads, has me thinking that bad boy might be able to kick over the condenser.

we got any electricians on this forum, that might be interested in doing a job for me?

[Scorpio64 3,218]

4 minutes ago, Sota said:

if you ran it that long, do an oil change.

Generators are not lawnmowers.  You can put a mower away 40 times and not even think about an oil change.  You run a genny a couple of few days, and you gotta change it.

I made the mistake myself during the recent outage.  I ran it probably 30 hours, after it was already run who-knows how many hours during previous outages.  Then it occurred to me, after reading through the storm thread "maybe I should go ahead and do that".  I used a vacuum pump to do a hot swap.  The used oil was so thin, there was barely any viscosity to it. 

After the change, there was a noticeable difference in the engine sound, like it was happier and didn't strain so much when the AC or fridge compressor motor kicked on.  Also, besides being bad for the engine, spent oil also uses more fuel because of friction.  I did not do any kind of scientific method of measurement, but I'm positive I used less gas to top off the tank the next morning.

[Sniper 5,118]

4 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

The used oil was so thin, there was barely any viscosity to it. 

Why would that happen on gas genny and not on a lawnmower?

[Scorpio64 3,218]

Just now, Sniper said:

Why would that happen on gas genny and not on a lawnmower?

because lawnmowers are typically not run 40 hours straight.  Most folks operate a mower 30 to 60 minutes at a clip.  Ha, I made a pun.  We change the oil in our commercial mowers about once a week, but we mow more grass in a day than most homeowners do in a year.

[Bomber 229]

1 hour ago, Scorpio64 said:

 

I made the mistake myself during the recent outage.  I ran it probably 30 hours, after it was already run who-knows how many hours during previous outages.  Then it occurred to me, after reading through the storm thread "maybe I should go ahead and do that".  I used a vacuum pump to do a hot swap.  The used oil was so thin, there was barely any viscosity to it. 

 

Ouch, that probably shortened the service life.

An hour meter is a must have for a generator.  Run time can add up quick during an extended outage.

My Briggs Storm Responder Gen set suggest 50 hr for oil change. I do it at 30 hrs or so, oil is cheap and it only takes 1 1/2 qts.

[Sniper 5,118]

1 hour ago, Scorpio64 said:

The used oil was so thin, there was barely any viscosity to it. 

What weight oil did you have in it?

4 minutes ago, Bomber said:

My Briggs Gen set suggest 50 hr for oil change.

My Generac propane genny suggests 100 hours. Do gas gennys break down the oil faster?

I just checked the Onan genny on my motorhome, which runs on gas. It suggests 150 hours. Wonder why the difference?

[Sota 1,125]

 the biggest "portable" generacs (15000, 17500) spec 200 hours oil *and* filter change.  note the filter aspect. that's probably why they run that long an interval.

and if you want a potentially meaningless number, let's take 3600rpm to mean your car is doing 100mph (it's probably faster, but let's just do that for simple math's sake.)  that's 1000 miles every 10 hours of usage.  you can see that, in comparison, your "mileage" adds up really quick!

also thinking of it that way, I did the oil change on mine back on 5/25.  I might be due, due to all the "activity" lately.

~11 hours these past 2 weeks. plus the easy hour I spent yesterday.
think I'll change it in a couple of days.
I should get a couple more of these HF vacuum canister deals, and use one to suck dry the generator instead of lifting it up and pulling the drain plug.

[Scorpio64 3,218]

6 hours ago, Sniper said:

What weight oil did you have in it?

10W-30 natural.

6 hours ago, Sniper said:

propane genny suggests 100 hours. Do gas gennys break down the oil faster?

Propane burns cleaner and cooler than gasoline, so it does not break down or corrupt the oil as fast.  100hrs still seems like a lot to me though.

6 hours ago, Sniper said:

Onan genny on my motorhome, which runs on gas. It suggests 150 hours. Wonder why the difference?

That's a good question.  Oil filter vs no oil filter, RV gennys run at lower rpms, built to better specifications???  Someone else will have to answer that question.