Drilling a Brake

[bhunted 887]

If I had a drill press, I'd do my own only. It would seem, the easiest way would be: screw the brake on first, get an idea where the hole would be drilled through and would also hit the barrel correctly. Mark the brake with a pencil, remove it, tap it first then drill it through. Clean it up, screw it back on, position it, then drill just enough to the barrel to make a nice indent into the barrel. Remove brake again and drill down the correct length into the barrel. Screw back on, holes should line up, yes? Drive pin home and weld, then grind clean if desired.

 

Does this sound about right???

 

 

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[Shane45 807]

I guess that method could get you there, but its not how I do it. Basic version, I measure, time, then drill both together.

[Blake 50]

DO NOT USE HEAVY PRESSURE. It will be a bad day if you snap a carbide bit in a half drilled hole. Unless you have a buddy with a wire EDM . Honestly, I would take up some of the offers that have been made. It may seem a simple thing to High Temp Silver Solder or punch holes in things. But the reality is experience and feel mean a ton when doing things like this. Hell I dont silver solder and I play with heats up in the 2600 to 3000 degree range because I know I dont have the experience and feel for that particuler pursuit. And if not done right, the risk for ruining other peoples property is high. Same with punching through brakes and in to barrels. Seen enough holes punched right through the brake and barrel by supposed gunsmiths to be able to say this work is not for everyone. Do people that arent gunsmiths do it? Sure! But how many bung it up and you never hear about it. And in the end does their work look like this?

 

I have two done by Shane and both look like this. Great finish work!

[bhunted 887]

I guess that method could get you there, but its not how I do it. Basic version, I measure, time, then drill both together.

I fig that is mostly the way. But that way scares me because it's hard to judge the depth into the barrel. Wouldn't want to go all the way through. That would really suck.

 

How do you gauge it your way?

 

 

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[remixer 1,645]

Ok all,

 

We have 2 conversations going on here...I am cool with that, but I am still interested in getting my brake legally attached.

 

So, I ordered a solid carbide drill bit. I is scheduled for delivery on Monday. When I am drilling with this bit, I should use heavy pressure on the drill press and lots of oil, correct?

 

 

Then new bit will eat right through it with out an issue. not to much pressure and stay constant dont bump it. you wont need tons of oil as your hole should take no more then 10 seconds 

 

[remixer 1,645]

I guess that method could get you there, but its not how I do it. Basic version, I measure, time, then drill both together.

 

Correct. thats how i do it.  If you wanna really make it easy for a amateur just take the brake before its on the rifle and just make a small dimple so it will be easy to line up your hole when you go for broke and drill it   Sorta line center punching it using a drill

 

 

[bhunted 887]

Correct. thats how i do it. If you wanna really make it easy for a amateur just take the brake before its on the rifle and just make a small dimple so it will be easy to line up your hole when you go for broke and drill it Sorta line center punching it using a drill

 

 

Again, how would you judge how deep to go into the barrel? You're basically drilling blind that way...

 

 

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[remixer 1,645]

what i do it take the brake before installed and lower the drill completely and see how much it goes into the brake by placing the brake right aginest the drill bit at its lowest position. then raise or lower with the stops till im happy with its depth.

 

 

at that point the drill will only go so far depth wise and your good.

 

I posted a quick example if you dont have the tools to measure etc etc

 

This is not a reference on how deep ....  just how to figure out when you are into the barrel

[bhunted 887]

Gotchya there, but wouldn't it be much easier and safer the way I said in my other post? Just drill the brake where it would fall at 6 o'clock. Attach, tighten, drill to start, then remove. Do final drill on barrel? I'd think it's a no brainer and much safer. No chance of mistakes. One way or another, you still need to know how deep to go on barrel. Maybe I just like being over cautious. Sort of like measure twice cut once.

 

 

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[Shane45 807]

Either of those methods will work I'm sure. But for me, I like to know exactly how much I'm going in to the barrel so I measure the thickness of the brake and the thickness of the barrel etc etc and do my calculator mojo for a max depth. Because I precision ream the hole after its drilled, its better for me to do it as one operation without moving the table on my mill or the workpiece.

[MidwestPX 172]

There is so much over thinking in this thread............

 

The bit must cut the metal....let the bit cut...use lots of oil....no need for excessive pressure.......troy brakes are a PITA to drill...but can be done...

 

I drill the brake first....then time on barrel as needed then drill the barrel...with brake on .........set pin weld over....not more difficult than that.

I don't do pin/weld jobs but if I did, this would be the way I'd do it.  It's easier to drill through the brake when it's unattached.  Get it timed and drill into the threads through the hole in the brake then pin and weld.

[bhunted 887]

I don't do pin/weld jobs but if I did, this would be the way I'd do it. It's easier to drill through the brake when it's unattached. Get it timed and drill into the threads through the hole in the brake then pin and weld.

It's what I've been saying. Just not as short winded, lol..,

 

 

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[remixer 1,645]

Gotchya there, but wouldn't it be much easier and safer the way I said in my other post? Just drill the brake where it would fall at 6 o'clock. Attach, tighten, drill to start, then remove. Do final drill on barrel? I'd think it's a no brainer and much safer. No chance of mistakes. One way or another, you still need to know how deep to go on barrel. Maybe I just like being over cautious. Sort of like measure twice cut once. Sent from my iPad 2 using T2 Pro

 

you can do that but must be more careful as you can end up enlarging (ovaling) the hole in the brake it its not set 100% within the original hole which causes the pin to sit really loose. This is why i do it once the brake is already attached and timed.

 

Its just easier to do it when the brake is already one. If you set your depth stop its never an issue.

[Shane45 807]

Exactly! Its not overthinking. Although I wont call this way "better" it is certainly better if not required for those doing a press fit or seeking a precision bored hole.

[henrym 19]

I don't do pin/weld jobs but if I did, this would be the way I'd do it.  It's easier to drill through the brake when it's unattached.  Get it timed and drill into the threads through the hole in the brake then pin and weld.

 

True, but I do mine on a bridgeport. If the barrel isn't times perfectly, the bit will just snap off when it stats to spin because the entire lower assembly is locked in the mill vice, or the hole will elongate.

 

I do it with the same method as shane. Calipers to measure the thickness of the comp at the site of the hole, then a measurement of the thread depth. Add the 2 together and set the stop on mill head for that dimension and go forward with a carbide drill. Finish ream, pin and then a small spot weld with the tig machine.

[bhunted 887]

you can do that but must be more careful as you can end up enlarging (ovaling) the hole in the brake it its not set 100% within the original hole which causes the pin to sit really loose. This is why i do it once the brake is already attached and timed.

 

Its just easier to do it when the brake is already one. If you set your depth stop its never an issue.

No, no... Not leave the bit in the brake after drilling the hole. Just to tap/mark like a 32nd" to 16th" where it needs to be drilled into the barrel. Then remove brake and drill barrel separately. I guess your idea is good if you have a drill press that has the stop. But by hand, blah. I really want a press. Just need more reasons to invest in one.

 

 

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[remixer 1,645]

I see

[bhunted 887]

I don't get it.... If your hole eggs.. Elongated et... Your do doing something wrong.... Plus if it did... When you weld over... You are filling and unifying brake and pin.... Then hand finishing with files to smooth and make pretty...

 

 

Well, being a country boy, if you really knew how to make eggs, you'd know to heat the pan first, then pop those eggs in there quick fast not slow real close to the iron. My eggs are always hole and never elongated. In fact, I do two at a time and they look like they are staring right at ya nice and round dagnabit!!!

 

 

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[Shane45 807]

Nick, please enlighten me what the dimension is for a proper press fit and how you could achieve it with just a drill bit and a pin?

 

You are correct the welding over method allows you to be sloppy.

[bhunted 887]

But but but, what about the children? The poor children?

And I still hate sloppy eggs!

 

 

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[Shane45 807]

Nick, what your failing to pick up on is our methods are fundamentaly different. So your comments about NASA dont really apply. If you are able to deform your pin pressing it in you must be using either a roll pin or a soft pin. I use a solid, hardened alloy pin. In doing so, to achieve a proper press fit, the bored hole needs to be exact. Thus it needs to be precision bored. Without it, you will NOT press it in. Add to that the availability of dimensional COTS alloy pins, precision boring is frankly much easier and cost effective compared to ordering special dim precision ground pins.

 

Everyone has thier own interpretation of what NJ requires, and thus their own methodology. But for those that use the ATF req's for NFA barrels, one thing often overlooked is that little disclaimer they have in the regs that say if you can twist it off with hand tools, it is not considered to have been permenant. This might be something to consider when choosing the actual pin one should use. I have removed several brakes that were pinned and welded, and would absolutely have failed even a mediocre test of applying a tool to remove the brake as the depth of the pin was entirely inadiquate.

 

If anyone has a couple of old shot out threaded ar barrels laying around they would like to donate for destructive testing, I would love to test various pinning methods for permenancy.

[Shane45 807]

ps. I made no implication your welds are sloppy or left sloppy. I affirmed your statement that welding allows the fit to be sloppy as the welding fills it in at least at the surface.

[remixer 1,645]

I don't get it.... If your hole eggs.. Elongated et... Your do doing something wrong.... Plus if it did... When you weld over... You are filling and unifying brake and pin.... Then hand finishing with files to smooth and make pretty...

 

 

 

Lets remember how this started. The average forum member who is attempting to pin a brake on their own might not be a pro and some would end up with an egg shaped hole. this is why i mentioned it as a warning to be careful when using the drill twice method.

[remixer 1,645]

Nick, what your failing to pick up on is our methods are fundamentaly different. So your comments about NASA dont really apply. If you are able to deform your pin pressing it in you must be using either a roll pin or a soft pin. I use a solid, hardened alloy pin. In doing so, to achieve a proper press fit, the bored hole needs to be exact. Thus it needs to be precision bored. Without it, you will NOT press it in. Add to that the availability of dimensional COTS alloy pins, precision boring is frankly much easier and cost effective compared to ordering special dim precision ground pins.

 

Everyone has thier own interpretation of what NJ requires, and thus their own methodology. But for those that use the ATF req's for NFA barrels, one thing often overlooked is that little disclaimer they have in the regs that say if you can twist it off with hand tools, it is not considered to have been permenant. This might be something to consider when choosing the actual pin one should use. I have removed several brakes that were pinned and welded, and would absolutely have failed even a mediocre test of applying a tool to remove the brake as the depth of the pin was entirely inadiquate.

 

If anyone has a couple of old shot out threaded ar barrels laying around they would like to donate for destructive testing, I would love to test various pinning methods for permenancy.

 

Any brake can be removed with the right hand tools that are pinned:) the question comes into play as to the damage you will do to the barrel / threads.

 

A wrench and a 2 foot pipe for leverage has an incredible amount of pressure.

[remixer 1,645]

This thread seems to have gotten away from the main point.  A member wanted to pin  a brake himself and was asking how to drill the troy.

 

The facts are an amateur drilling his hole twice would in most cases cause egging of the hole. hence my warning to those who try. This was not my opinion of other vendors pinning methods.

[bhunted 887]

So we ain't having eggs today? Blah! :wild:

[remixer 1,645]

LOL

 

dont you just hate when a thread gets away form ya and the shit starts to get thrown everyplace... all that ends up happening is we all need showers. no one comes out clean

[Old School 611]

Knowing both you guys and your work I just get to sit back and chuckle!

[remixer 1,645]

I believe stag arms press fits there pins for compliance but we are not talking about a NFA rules just Ban State compliance.

[bhunted 887]

Thrown? OK, make them scrambled. Heart was set on sunny side up... My routine is to break up the thread to hopefully avoid an argument..  but yea... suppose so. Does that mean we get eggs on our face? LMAO!

 

LOL

 

dont you just hate when a thread gets away form ya and the shit starts to get thrown everyplace... all that ends up happening is we all need showers. no one comes out clean