Bully 749 Posted November 14, 2013 Howdy! Thanks for taking a peek into the insanity of my researching a new project... I've decided that I should have a "battle rifle" of some type so an AR is gonna happen. However as with most things I do and look into I'm not satisfied with the stock and standard offerings on store shelves. That means I'm going to build my own. As someone that isn't super into AR' s or long guns in generAl the choices are pretty overwhelming. I do realize a that I am not the first nor will I be the last to tackle this and that all will become clearer as I move slowly down the path of completion. In other words I'll figure it out. In looking at lowers one thing becomes abundantly clear... there are two very distinct price points, 100 dollar lowers and 300 dollar lowers. At 100 dollars I find Spikes, Doublestar, and a couple of others. At 300 we've got Noevske, Mega, and Seekins. For what it's worth, I'm quoting the high end of prices I've seen, I know I can do better. The question is this: what, as a purely recreational am I gaining with a pricier lower and what am I losing with a less expensive one? Now for the answers to the questions about to be asked. The gun will be a range toy. I'd like to look into some 100 yard competition but I never get all that serious about that stuff. I do it very strictly for fun and because I like to shoot and find its a challenging way to gain trigger time. It would have to double as a HD gun if it ever came to it. Caliber will be 5.56/.223 with 62gn pills most likely. I want it set up in a "Hunter" style with a skeleton stock, non railed narrow fore end, and glass on top. Barrel length TBD, but I'm thinking 18" bull. Not the heavy bull barrel but the medium. That's all I've got for now. Feel free to let the education begin. Christopher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lalo 13 Posted November 14, 2013 Sounds like you already know what you want. Not sure if it was on this forum but there are many "billet vs forged" topics to read up on. From what I understand, the gist of it is that billet lowers are cool looking, pretty lowers with fancy designs and integrated trigger guards and such that cost twice as much as a forged lower that does the same job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bully 749 Posted November 15, 2013 Thanks much. I guess I'm wondering (1) if the fit of lower and upper is better with higher end lowers and (2) does that even matter? I have a friend that is selling a forged Doublestar lower for an OK price. I can't find anything on them that isn't their full rifle. Other than that it seems to be all company propaganda. How are they perceived in the market? C Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old School 611 Posted November 15, 2013 If this is just a range gun, don't bother setting up for 62gr bullets (1:7 or 1:8 twist) 1:9 barrels/uppers are cheaper. M193 or 55gr bullets are cheaper. and for a range gun that's a consideration. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYMetsFan86 9 Posted November 15, 2013 my 2 cents (take with grain of salt) ...I'd just as soon drop more money into the barrel and trigger group than a lower receiver. All you NEED is to get yourself a decent lower that dosen't break the bank, lots of people like forged receivers and they function fine. I do know that if you are gung ho in looking for a good selection of high end receivers then try Ty at Midwestpx.com, he has plenty in stock. looks like you've got it pretty well planned out already Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bully 749 Posted November 15, 2013 If this is just a range gun, don't bother setting up for 62gr bullets (1:7 or 1:8 twist) 1:9 barrels/uppers are cheaper. M193 or 55gr bullets are cheaper. and for a range gun that's a consideration. How will the 55's run outdoors at 100? I suck with a rifle but am interested in shooting 100, for now. C Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bully 749 Posted November 15, 2013 my 2 cents (take with grain of salt) ...I'd just as soon drop more money into the barrel and trigger group than a lower receiver. All you NEED is to get yourself a decent lower that dosen't break the bank, lots of people like forged receivers and they function fine. I do know that if you are gung ho in looking for a good selection of high end receivers then try Ty at Midwestpx.com, he has plenty in stock. looks like you've got it pretty well planned out already Spoke with Ty yesterday. Very nice and quite knowledgeable. I like the looks of the Mega stuff but really like the Seekins stuff from a looks perspective. Although I have the aesthetics planned out, it's the little details that I need help with. Stuff like above with what bullets to build for. C Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old School 611 Posted November 15, 2013 How will the 55's run outdoors at 100? I suck with a rifle but am interested in shooting 100, for now. C Off a bench and bags....I run 55 FMJBT onto 1 1/2" with a 20" barrel and irons or the same with 16" gun with optics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLHX 1 Posted November 15, 2013 You can get a Seekins forged and they are very nice. I built a rifle during the craze. I wanted a billet lower but it couldn't be found. I went with a forged and am now happy I did. I spent the extra money on a Geissele trigger and that was the best money I spent. There are a few other trigger choices out there Hipertouch hiperfire,JP, and AR gold and others. I would try to find as many triggers to sample as you can and spend the money there!! and a good BCG! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MidwestPX 172 Posted November 15, 2013 In the coming weeks, I should have branded billet lowers (not blems) at the $120 range. My benchmark for quality is Mega Arms and so far, the product that I've seen from this source is running neck and neck with them as far as machining and overall finish. I won't pass judgement until my lowers are in hand but I have no reason to expect this source will fail me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bully 749 Posted November 15, 2013 Hey Ty. Thank you. I may take you up on that. Thanks again for the chat the other day. I appreciate your time. C Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MidwestPX 172 Posted November 16, 2013 Hey Ty. Thank you. I may take you up on that. Thanks again for the chat the other day. I appreciate your time. C No prob. When I saw the thread, I thought, "hmm, is this the guy I talked to?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted November 16, 2013 If you want something distinctive I would at least check this out at that price and local. Oops! Not local I think? LOL, still worth checking out if that is what you are after. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,120 Posted November 16, 2013 Howdy! Blah blah blah..... Caliber will be 5.56/.223 with 62gn pills most likely. I want it set up in a "Hunter" style with a skeleton stock, non railed narrow fore end, and glass on top. Barrel length TBD, but I'm thinking 18" bull. Not the heavy bull barrel but the medium. That's all I've got for now. Feel free to let the education begin. Christopher Did you break into my house and read my AR research and build notebook?!? Holy cow, except for a higher power scope, you have pretty much spec'd out the exact same rifle I'm building. Well, maybe not the 5.56 part, I'll get to that in a minute. Like you, I'm not in love with the AR platform, (I love guns with wood, lots of wood) but the gadgety aspect of it does appeal to my inner nerd. I'm seriously considering going with 6.8SPC. Like 80% sure I'll go with 6.8SPC for my first build. I bought two Anderson lowers last week (picking them up on Tues) and may build a 5.56 now and build a 6.8SPC upper after I got the standard rifle worked out. Basically, I'm going to build something now, do some more stuff to it then use the other lower to build something else and end up with two rifles. As far as barrels go, it seems the thicker an longer the better ( no comments from the peanut gallery please) . For the 5.56 I'll probably go with a standard length 16" medium profile with no notch, no muzzle device either, just a nice target crown. If I can find a NJ legal hybrid device that doesn't bark too loud, I would be elated to find it. The Govt profile barrel seems to be a good option too.One thing that is definite is free floating the barrel. Not that much more expensive and a good return on the investment. The skeleton stock looks very nice, Okay, nice is an understatement. It's kinda sexy. I'm having a tough time deciding between the skeleton and the MagPul something or other that has a similar profile to the skeleton. Yanno, I'm rambling here. Basically I'm in the same boat as you. So many options it boggles the mind. One last thing though. 1911 grips. I saw an AR with just one wood accent, apparently there is a pistol grip with 1911 grips for the AR that looks pretty sweet. Too many freaking options. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bully 749 Posted November 16, 2013 Ty, yup that was me. Thanks much. Scorpio, I didn't break in, I used my super mind reading ninja skills to steal your plans...!!! Oddly, I was initially looking at a 6.8 build. Reason I'm not going with it is I don't want to pay for the ammo. Even though I reload, the components are pretty pricey. And brass is simply not to be found. The .223 is just all around simpler. If I decide that I can't live without a 6.8, I'll build an upper and just switch it out as I need. And not to belabor a point, but AR's are just awful looking. I don't mean to offend all the AR junkies but to my eye, all the lights and lasers hanging all over the place just look terrible. Simple, clean, elegant. Almost impossible to achieve with this platform but I'm planning to try. Like Scorpio, I like blue steel and wood stocks. I've seen the grip that takes 1911 grip panels. It's apparently set up to mimic the grip angle as well. It's neat but not to my taste. That being said, if I see one and it fits my hand, I'll get it. I honestly haven't gotten to grip selection at this point. I'm sure it'll be a whole other mind bending whirligig for me. Thanks all. C Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bully 749 Posted November 18, 2013 Can anyone break down the differences between LPK's? Some are a bit pricier than others. Any company's to watch out for as regards quality? Any triggers to recommend for or against? I'm mostly a revolver shooter but want something pretty light. I'm thinking in the 3-4 lb range as it's gonna be a general fun gun but I'd like it to work with me if I decide to 'bag it. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a lower. I will document my build here. C Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old School 611 Posted November 19, 2013 Can anyone break down the differences between LPK's? Some are a bit pricier than others. Any company's to watch out for as regards quality? Any triggers to recommend for or against? I'm mostly a revolver shooter but want something pretty light. I'm thinking in the 3-4 lb range as it's gonna be a general fun gun but I'd like it to work with me if I decide to 'bag it. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a lower. I will document my build here. C Two stage or single stage trigger? Looking at $150 minimum One last time in this public forum... Come fondle my stuff with various triggers. Find one you like and then I'll put a digital scale on it and you will be surprised what triggers really weigh out at. One last thing...If you ever intend to run around with this rifle that makes your trigger requirement different. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted November 19, 2013 Can anyone break down the differences between LPK's? Some are a bit pricier than others. Any company's to watch out for as regards quality? Any triggers to recommend for or against? I'm mostly a revolver shooter but want something pretty light. I'm thinking in the 3-4 lb range as it's gonna be a general fun gun but I'd like it to work with me if I decide to 'bag it. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a lower. I will document my build here. C I've owned several ARs from 3 different brands, fire M16s of 3 different brands with two different trigger styles, and fired two or three additional brands of ARs as well. Not an expert, (well, I am officially) but I've been around a little bit. The stock BCM trigger is the worst I have ever used. There is no comparison, it's not a little worse, it's awful. Other than that, I don't have any custom or aftermarket triggers. Not a big precision AR guy. So I guess my advice would be expect to buy a trigger at least if you get a BCM and want a trigger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MidwestPX 172 Posted November 19, 2013 Can anyone break down the differences between LPK's? Some are a bit pricier than others. Any company's to watch out for as regards quality? Any triggers to recommend for or against? I'm mostly a revolver shooter but want something pretty light. I'm thinking in the 3-4 lb range as it's gonna be a general fun gun but I'd like it to work with me if I decide to 'bag it. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a lower. I will document my build here. C I'd give the ALG ACT a hard look. It's a little heavier pull but there's no creep and it's a very crisp break. It's fast becoming one of my favorite triggers, especially considering you can get it with an LPK for under $90: http://midwestpx.com/product_info.php?cPath=100&products_id=659 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
checko 180 Posted November 19, 2013 I'd give the ALG ACT a hard look. It's a little heavier pull but there's no creep and it's a very crisp break. It's fast becoming one of my favorite triggers, especially considering you can get it with an LPK for under $90: http://midwestpx.com/product_info.php?cPath=100&products_id=659 I got this in an moe+ kit from PSA for relativity cheap. Pretty happy with the trigger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bully 749 Posted November 20, 2013 Thanks all. Just a quick update: I have an upper coming from Ty at MidwestPX. Just finished the order about 2 minutes ago. I have a lower that I am buying from a friend. I will let y'all know what it is when I see it. It's buried in a pile of stuff and he'll dig it out when I head over. This is getting to be fun! C Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RUTGERS95 889 Posted November 20, 2013 on triggers I say you go jp with speed hammer for single stage and either Geiselle or KAC for 2 stage (cheaper option is armalite tactical 2 stage which is really nice for $100) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RUTGERS95 889 Posted November 20, 2013 lpk go with WOA...real good stuff, not expensive and $38 delivered without the trigger. I've shot the alg and think the only reason people buy it is because of the name. It's still heavy and nothing more than a polished common trigger. You can spend $40 more and get the armalite 2 stage.....no brainer in my book Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bully 749 Posted November 20, 2013 ^^^I don't know what half of that means^^^. I'm an AR noob so the jargon is lost on me. I do know that LPK=lower parts kit. That's about as good as it gets right now... C Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MidwestPX 172 Posted November 20, 2013 ^^^I don't know what half of that means^^^. I'm an AR noob so the jargon is lost on me. I do know that LPK=lower parts kit. That's about as good as it gets right now... C WOA = White Oak Armament ALG = ALG Defense, sister company of Geissele Automatics Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RUTGERS95 889 Posted November 20, 2013 sorry.....^^^^^what he said....lol I believe that there are 3 things you absolutely need when building a quality AR; good barrel (depending on application, you can go real expensive or fairly cheap) GREAT trigger good glass Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pbkid6974 1 Posted November 20, 2013 i have a Geissele SSA trigger and it is by far the best trigger ive pulled on an AR. not saying others are bad its just what i like. remember that you usually get what you pay for. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voyager9 3,417 Posted November 20, 2013 I got this in an moe+ kit from PSA for relativity cheap. Pretty happy with the trigger. This. PSA has a LPK with ALG Combat Triggers (ACT) on sale often. As quoted you can also get it with Magpul MOE stuff. I picked one up for my build because on sale it was the same price as their regular/classic LPK. A decent improvement for little cost when you're not looking for SSA-level triggers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
checko 180 Posted November 20, 2013 Yes. I honestly don't believe an SSA type trigger is necessary on a HD/battle rifle. Just like anything with the AR platform, make the parts fit the purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MidwestPX 172 Posted November 20, 2013 sorry.....^^^^^what he said....lol I believe that there are 3 things you absolutely need when building a quality AR; good barrel (depending on application, you can go real expensive or fairly cheap) GREAT trigger good glass Triggers are dangerous. It's like shooting with a RDS before learning to use iron sights. They can become a crutch that covers up a deficiency in fundamentals. In a carbine class I hosted, we had a CAG guy win the shoot-off with an unmodified USGI trigger right out of a DPMS LPK. It was gritty, it was creepy, it was heavy. But he shot the hell out of it to be the best shooter out of a class of 20. I think everyone should shoot a standard trigger to appreciate an aftermarket one and to not short change themselves in developing their skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites