Bully 749 Posted November 24, 2013 building them is like legos for adults:) Totally agreed. But, what do you think of the WC parts? C Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RUTGERS95 889 Posted November 24, 2013 wc parts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
checko 180 Posted November 24, 2013 wc parts? Wilson combat. He was asking how their lpk was I'd just buy a lpk from stag or spikes and get an extra fire control group if your other shits the bed. Or get a DD or Colt kit if you want to spend money Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted November 24, 2013 if you want to shoot both .223 and 5.56 make sure you have a 5.56 chambered barrel. the 1:8 twist would probably suit both 55 and 62 grain bullets. but you would have to shoot both and decide which works better, but they should be fairly similar in a 1:8 barrel. if you arent going to be shooting fast i wouldnt worry about porting the barrel. A slower twist would suit both weights better. 1/8 is not necessary for 62 grains. But 1/8 would work. I shoot 55 out of 1/7 most of the time, and it works OK. If I wanted accuracy out of 62 grain (which is dumb) I'd go with 1/9 out of the common twist rates. If I wanted accuracy out of 55 grain I would with of 1/12 out of the common twist rates. But I shoot most out of 1/7 and it's not the end of the world because I only need so much accuracy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MidwestPX 172 Posted November 24, 2013 FYI the Black Friday deal I just posted today is our LTG LPK for $24.95. http://midwestpx.com/index.php?cPath=110 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RUTGERS95 889 Posted November 24, 2013 oh yeah...sorry wc is excellent but I'd buy woa lpk as it cheap, high quality and will do the same thing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pbkid6974 1 Posted November 25, 2013 A slower twist would suit both weights better. 1/8 is not necessary for 62 grains. But 1/8 would work. I shoot 55 out of 1/7 most of the time, and it works OK. If I wanted accuracy out of 62 grain (which is dumb) I'd go with 1/9 out of the common twist rates. If I wanted accuracy out of 55 grain I would with of 1/12 out of the common twist rates. But I shoot most out of 1/7 and it's not the end of the world because I only need so much accuracy. I believe he stated he wanted a decent target rifle. So he wants the accuracy with both. From what I can gather 62 grain is better out of 1:7 and 55 is better or of a 1:9 so 1:8 would be a happy medium. Not the best for either but not the worst. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bully 749 Posted November 25, 2013 FYI the Black Friday deal I just posted today is our LTG LPK for $24.95. http://midwestpx.com/index.php?cPath=110 Fine... I've started a cart. Thanks again, Ty. C Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted November 26, 2013 I believe he stated he wanted a decent target rifle. So he wants the accuracy with both. From what I can gather 62 grain is better out of 1:7 and 55 is better or of a 1:9 so 1:8 would be a happy medium. Not the best for either but not the worst. You gathered wrong, see above. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pbkid6974 1 Posted November 26, 2013 You gathered wrong, see above. i think you need to recheck where you are getting your information from. i never said that those are optimal just better suited. learn to research before you post your shit opinions as facts. there is this website called google that even gathers articles for you. sure he could search out a 1:12 barrel to shoot 50-55 grains exclusively but the barrel is not common and he will pay out the ass for it. so why not take the commonly available barrels (1:7, 1:8, and 1:9) and find a happy medium to use whatever ammo he comes across? PA has their own gun forum, go shit up that one if you want. i'm tired of you coming here and talking down to us that live in jersey like we're children. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Holeshot 3 Posted November 26, 2013 FYI the Black Friday deal I just posted today is our LTG LPK for $24.95. http://midwestpx.com/index.php?cPath=110 Ty, The free shipping code is not working. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MidwestPX 172 Posted November 26, 2013 Ty, The free shipping code is not working. Seems to be working as it should? We've had a half dozen orders >$150 come in over the last hour, each with free shipping. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted November 26, 2013 i think you need to recheck where you are getting your information from. i never said that those are optimal just better suited. learn to research before you post your shit opinions as facts. there is this website called google that even gathers articles for you. sure he could search out a 1:12 barrel to shoot 50-55 grains exclusively but the barrel is not common and he will pay out the ass for it. so why not take the commonly available barrels (1:7, 1:8, and 1:9) and find a happy medium to use whatever ammo he comes across? PA has their own gun forum, go shit up that one if you want. i'm tired of you coming here and talking down to us that live in jersey like we're children. No, you said this: if you want to shoot both .223 and 5.56 make sure you have a 5.56 chambered barrel. the 1:8 twist would probably suit both 55 and 62 grain bullets. but you would have to shoot both and decide which works better, but they should be fairly similar in a 1:8 barrel. if you arent going to be shooting fast i wouldnt worry about porting the barrel. 1/8 is the most uncommon barrel twist for 5.56 or .223 on the planet. 1/9 is common, and more accurate for both 55 grain and 62 grain than 1/8. How does that make me talking down to you? I'm trying to help here. I don't know what your problem is, but it aint twist rate. If you said tomorrow the sun was going to rise at 10 AM on a nautical forum and I said that wasn't true you would jump my shit. These are simple facts, not in dispute, I'll put you on ignore because you have some sort of weird thing about me and I don't want you to get aggravated by my responses to you. EDIT: Just to be clear: I believe he stated he wanted a decent target rifle. So he wants the accuracy with both. From what I can gather 62 grain is better out of 1:7 and 55 is better or of a 1:9 so 1:8 would be a happy medium. Not the best for either but not the worst. Both 55 grain and 62 grain are generally more accurate out of a 1/9 than a 1/8 or 1/7 for anybody reading along. I don't want this weird personal dispute to confuse the issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MidwestPX 172 Posted November 26, 2013 I honestly don't know why eight twists aren't more common. They do great with everything from the light, thin-jacketed varmint grenades to the heavier, longer 75 and 77 grain pills. It's why my branded barrels are eight twists...they do everything the 7 and 9s do without compromise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Holeshot 3 Posted November 26, 2013 Seems to be working as it should? We've had a half dozen orders >$150 come in over the last hour, each with free shipping. I was talking about for just the LPK kit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RUTGERS95 889 Posted November 26, 2013 I can honestly say I've never had issues with 1:7, 1:8, 1:9 and dont' see any discernible difference in accuracy. Then again, for some of my set ups, I have specific loads I use. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted November 26, 2013 I honestly don't know why eight twists aren't more common. They do great with everything from the light, thin-jacketed varmint grenades to the heavier, longer 75 and 77 grain pills. It's why my branded barrels are eight twists...they do everything the 7 and 9s do without compromise. I'd rather have one than a 1/7. Except, like you said, that they are less common. And that always bothers me. I don't like custom anything in ARs. I prefer the real deal Now, I shoot a lot of tracer, but even those will be fine out of most 1/8 under the conditions I shoot at. Never under 20°F, yikes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted November 26, 2013 I can honestly say I've never had issues with 1:7, 1:8, 1:9 and dont' see any discernible difference in accuracy. Then again, for some of my set ups, I have specific loads I use. I think Molon over on barfcom has good results with his super-light handloads of 45 grain or so pills (I forget) out of some pretty high twist barrels. So, you never know. The stability charts show us where the sweet spot is, and they show us rounds we probably can't shoot out of a certain barrel, but if you roll your own that's only a rule of thumb unless you push the limits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pbkid6974 1 Posted November 26, 2013 No, you said this: 1/8 is the most uncommon barrel twist for 5.56 or .223 on the planet. 1/9 is common, and more accurate for both 55 grain and 62 grain than 1/8. How does that make me talking down to you? I'm trying to help here. I don't know what your problem is, but it aint twist rate. If you said tomorrow the sun was going to rise at 10 AM on a nautical forum and I said that wasn't true you would jump my shit. These are simple facts, not in dispute, I'll put you on ignore because you have some sort of weird thing about me and I don't want you to get aggravated by my responses to you. EDIT: Just to be clear: Both 55 grain and 62 grain are generally more accurate out of a 1/9 than a 1/8 or 1/7 for anybody reading along. I don't want this weird personal dispute to confuse the issue. this is why i said it I honestly don't know why eight twists aren't more common. They do great with everything from the light, thin-jacketed varmint grenades to the heavier, longer 75 and 77 grain pills. It's why my branded barrels are eight twists...they do everything the 7 and 9s do without compromise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bully 749 Posted November 27, 2013 I'm gonna try and swing by my buddy's and grab my lower tonite. I'm really looking forward to this build. Going to grab the LPK w/o the trigger group from Ty at Midwest PX. Starting to look around at triggers. I have had a very generous offer from a friend to stop by his place and try some of his triggers out to see what I like. However if anyone has any suggestions on triggers, please let me know. I'm not looking for a super light match style trigger, rather something very smooth and with NO grittiness. I am thinking that a 2 stage will work for me as I am a revolver shooter and it will approximate a D/A pull. Geissele has consistently awesome reviews. So does Jewell. I've seen the CMC's but don't know much about them. Anything else I should look at? Any other suggestions? Personal experiences? C Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MidwestPX 172 Posted November 27, 2013 The SSA-E would be a good candidate. Pull weight is a pound lighter than the SSA at 3.5lbs and the break is noticeably crisper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RUTGERS95 889 Posted November 27, 2013 I think Molon over on barfcom has good results with his super-light handloads of 45 grain or so pills (I forget) out of some pretty high twist barrels. So, you never know. The stability charts show us where the sweet spot is, and they show us rounds we probably can't shoot out of a certain barrel, but if you roll your own that's only a rule of thumb unless you push the limits. no doubt....I only use 55 and 62gr so twist is a non factor for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raz-0 1,256 Posted November 27, 2013 I believe he stated he wanted a decent target rifle. So he wants the accuracy with both. From what I can gather 62 grain is better out of 1:7 and 55 is better or of a 1:9 so 1:8 would be a happy medium. Not the best for either but not the worst. Some of the best shooting rifles are 1:8. 1:8 is the right thing . I'll give an abbreviated version of my rant. The sweet spot for twist depends on twist rate, barrel length, and bullet profile. 1:8 works well for 42gr to 77gr. Basically anything that fits in the magazine. 40gr might be sub optimal or require TLC with custom loads to get ok perfomance. 1:7, 1:8, or 1:9 will work well for most ammo you can buy as they will all stabilize 50-64gr bullets just fine in a 16 inch barrel, and that covers most ammo you will find on the shelf. In my experience, I've seen better accuracy form barrels that fit 2 full twists in the overall barrel length. IN 20 inch barrels, I haven't seen much difference between 1:9 and 1:7. In 16 inch barrels, 1:8 and 1:7, while not more accurate in terms of peak accuracy, seem to shoot a greater variety of ammo accurately. for an 18" barrel meant to lean towards accuracy, I'd go with .223 wylde or 5.56 SAM-R chamber, 1:8 rifling. In terms of reasonably affordable, there's criterion's hybrid contour, rianier arms, and black hole weaponry (black hole actually makes some of rainier's barrels). The one caveat I will give you is that 18" barrels have issues with getting them gassed right. A mid length gas system overgrasses them a bit, and a rifle length system undergasses them a bit. The really right answer is the noveske intermediate length (between mid and rifle length), but then you limit your barrel choices immensely, and you limit availability of replacement gas tubes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bully 749 Posted November 28, 2013 The SSA-E would be a good candidate. Pull weight is a pound lighter than the SSA at 3.5lbs and the break is noticeably crisper. How do you feel about the SD-C. C Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MidwestPX 172 Posted November 28, 2013 How do you feel about the SD-C. C It's more comparable to the SSA as the pull weight is a little heavier. The SD-E is the SSA-E with the flat front trigger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bully 749 Posted November 28, 2013 If I read it right, the SD-C is about 4.5lbs. Any lighter and I wouldn't be comfortable with it in someone else's hands. I shoot with friends and family so my guns get passed around a good bit. I'm also not looking for a super light trigger. Just super smooth. Add to that the fact that I like flat trigger faces... If you think it's a crappy move, I'll listen. So far as I can tell, you've not steered me wrong yet. C Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MidwestPX 172 Posted November 28, 2013 If I read it right, the SD-C is about 4.5lbs. Any lighter and I wouldn't be comfortable with it in someone else's hands. I shoot with friends and family so my guns get passed around a good bit. I'm also not looking for a super light trigger. Just super smooth. Add to that the fact that I like flat trigger faces... If you think it's a crappy move, I'll listen. So far as I can tell, you've not steered me wrong yet. C It's a two stage trigger so there's take-up before the trigger actually breaks. If it was a S3G/SD3G, I'd tell you there's a risk of bumpfiring (I did it accidentally when I was testing the trigger out when it was released) but the two stage design of the SSA/SSA-E is enough in my experience to not be of concern. I think the crisper break of the SSA-E/SD-E makes it preferable trigger to the SSA/SD-C given your stated purpose. Another trigger you should look at is the ALG ACT. It's a single stage that breaks at 5.5lbs but a super smooth pull. It isn't gritty or creepy at all. It feels like a heavier S3G to me. I wouldn't recommend it to someone who's shooting for groups competitively as it's a little heavy for that but I think it's a phenomenal general purpose trigger at a great pricepoint. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bully 749 Posted November 28, 2013 Sounds good. I'll take a look. C Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
checko 180 Posted November 28, 2013 I have the act. There is no creep and a nice break. If you want to try it youre more than welcome. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bully 749 Posted November 28, 2013 I have the act. There is no creep and a nice break. If you want to try it youre more than welcome. I would completely take you up on that if you weren't so far away... C Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites