Non compliant out of state purchases

[ColtPistols 0]

I've always been under the impression it was legal to by a non-compliant long gun out of state if the rifle wasn't banned by name, and then I could neuter it before bringing said weapon back into NJ. From what I've gathered it's certain long guns that are illegal to buy, but the features (i.e., flash hiders, standard mags, collapsible stocks) are not illegal to buy just illegal to bring back into NJ in the same condition. If this is true do most out of state dealers allow NJ residents to buy these, knowing they are not compliant in their buyer's home state as is?

 

Sorry, I'm sure this has been asked a lot but the search gave nothing relevant back.

[dwamp2006 1]

Short answer is NO

[Carcano 14]

Not sure where you are shopping but most out of state dealers I've visited in Ohio, West V, etc. will sell you anything you want as long as you can produce a valid DL and pass the instant check + fill out the ATF form. I have NEVER been asked to show my stupid PRNJ Firearms ID card it was always show DL, fill out ATF paperwork, dealer picks up phone and calls it in, comes back OK and out the door I go.

 

Is this legal? The BATFE says it is for long guns so I never violated any federal laws, handguns are another story and must ship to a valid FFL in your home state.

 

Buying a rifle that isn't NJ compliant like an AK or AR and chopping it inside the Motel 6 room and driving home is a grey area...I have done it and never had any problems with the NAZI police (NJSP) but if you are not a risk taker I would avoid trying this.

[RecessedFilter 222]

You can own flash hiders, bayonets, folding stocks, and most of that fun stuff, you just can't install it on whichever gun.

 

Some dealers will sell you a gun that's illegal in your own state, other's wont. I know many shops on the eastern PA border are somewhat familiar with NJ laws (or maybe unfamiliar at that point) and just refuse to sell anything remotely "illegal-looking" to a NJ resident. Good example is PA gun shows.

[ColtPistols 0]

Reason I ask is because I've found rifle for less than half of what I paid in NJ offered in PA. My understanding is even if I bought a rifle in Jersey I could legally take it to PA, install a flash hider unpin the sock and put in a standard mag and be 100% legal. I'de just have to leave it in PA or reverse it to bring it back as NJ has no legal authority outside the state. But I don't want to leave anything in PA, I just want to buy a rifle and save roughly a grand and have it neutered in PA by a gunsmith and I'll come back and pick it up whenever he's done.

[maintenanceguy 510]

I was in a pawn shop in TN.  They wouldn't sell me an old bolt action shot gun because I was from NJ.  I first asked if they could sell to out of state residents.  Yes they could.   When they found out I was from NJ, they could not.   Manager told me it was because they weren't familiar with the laws in NJ.

[JT Custom Guns 957]

According to the ATF - Any lic dealer has the right to decline a sale based on their judgement (or feeling).

Many out of state dealers who do not know the law in NJ, take the conservative road, and play it safe by 

declining to sell to NJ residents rather than chance breaking a law.

 

As for pricing, I cannot speak for all dealers, but as an example - If I were to purchase a non-compliant rifle

from a supplier; I would need to remove the flash hider, purchase & install a muzzle break, pin / weld it, pin

stock, remove the bayonet lug, ect. - This all cost money.

Many people think that NJ compliant guns are always in stock at some magic warehouse and readily avail. at the 

same price, or cheaper than regular (stock) guns and that just isn't always the case.

 

Yes you can travel to another state, purchase a rifle, get all the compliance work done and bring it home.

as long as it's legal in NJ when it crosses the state line your good to go.

Or you can purchase a rifle (or HG) out of state, pay to have it shipped in and pay to have your dealer do all 

the compliance work for you.

Or you can just purchase a weapon off the shelf from your dealer.

 

It all comes down to what fits your budget, time schedule, knowledge to do the work, ect.

[Oakridgefirearms 224]

The ATF requires dealers to comply with the laws of the state they are licensed in and the state where the buyer resides. It is up to the dealer to decipher what is legal in both jurisdictions and what is not. Some dealers are well versed in this and others are not or just don't want to be bothered figuring it out. As JT said, a dealer can refuse any sale if they are not comfortable with the deal.

 

As for buying a non compliant gun out of state - they buyer could not legally take possession of it from the dealer unless/until it has been modified to be compliant.

[Underdog 1,593]

As a New Jersey residence you cannot legally take possession out of state of a weapon that is illegal in state, unless you have a residence in that other state and keep it there and THAT state is your primary residence.  You could buy it and have an out-of-state dealer make it NJ legal before taking possession of it. 

 

New Jersey....

 

Hard to get, often must be modified, and top dollar paid for everything...  And the few dealers that we do have, and that are willing to put up with all the extra crap, they are quite happy using the monopoly they have to exaggerate the prices even more.   And, this is by design to limit the number of firearms in the hands of the people.  Think of just how much OGAM restricts commerce.  And, not only do we have to put up with NJ laws, we have to deal with the federal laws, too. 

 

I would bet that firearm ownership in NJ costs roughly 40% more than many other states.   And, again, that compliance affects availability and skyrockets the cost. 

 

And, then there is the attitude from dealers in free states that cannot understand why we put up with this nonsense in our state, just don't want to bother with in dealing with our state, and take their annoyance out on their potential customers in our state. 

[mipafox 438]

FFLs are required to follow the laws of the state of the sale and the laws of the state of the buyer's residence.

 

I know a dealer who rightfully sold a gun to an NJ cop with no mag because the mag exceeded NJ limits. Despite the cop's protestations, and promise to provide a letter from his department (which never materialized).

 

That being said, most probably have no idea what is legal or not after you get a couple hundred miles inside the US border.

 

You can own flash hiders, bayonets, folding stocks, and most of that fun stuff, you just can't install it on whichever gun.

 

Some dealers will sell you a gun that's illegal in your own state, other's wont. I know many shops on the eastern PA border are somewhat familiar with NJ laws (or maybe unfamiliar at that point) and just refuse to sell anything remotely "illegal-looking" to a NJ resident. Good example is PA gun shows.

If you want the most money you can possibly get for an NJ neutered gun, sell it to a dealer at a PA gun show. Other than beef jerky, dental tools, and old leather holsters, the only deal you can get at a gun show is selling NJ guns to dealers.

[Carcano 14]

As a New Jersey residence you cannot legally take possession out of state of a weapon that is illegal in state, unless you have a residence in that other state and keep it there and THAT state is your primary residence.  You could buy it and have an out-of-state dealer make it NJ legal before taking possession of it. 

 

New Jersey....

 

Hard to get, often must be modified, and top dollar paid for everything...  And the few dealers that we do have, and that are willing to put up with all the extra crap, they are quite happy using the monopoly they have to exaggerate the prices even more.   And, this is by design to limit the number of firearms in the hands of the people.  Think of just how much OGAM restricts commerce.  And, not only do we have to put up with NJ laws, we have to deal with the federal laws, too. 

 

I would bet that firearm ownership in NJ costs roughly 40% more than many other states.   And, again, that compliance affects availability and skyrockets the cost. 

 

And, then there is the attitude from dealers in free states that cannot understand why we put up with this nonsense in our state, just don't want to bother with in dealing with our state, and take their annoyance out on their potential customers in our state. 

 

Look how much most of us spend on making a firearm compliant, I have a few black guns that set me back over $400 each (from out of state FFL's before shipment) in compliance work alone! These rifles retail for $700-$900 but everybody knows that if you are in NJ you are stuck and if you want it bad enough you will pay the price. Keep in mind, that $900 rifle with $400 in compliance work would never sell for $1,300 out of state...I would be lucky to get $500 for it from someone in say WV or FL since the rifle is chopped and nobody wants a chopped gun when they can buy a new one for the same price from a local shop without removing the FH and bayonet lug + pinning stocks and mags.

[n4p226r 105]

Look how much most of us spend on making a firearm compliant, I have a few black guns that set me back over $400 each (from out of state FFL's before shipment) in compliance work alone! These rifles retail for $700-$900 but everybody knows that if you are in NJ you are stuck and if you want it bad enough you will pay the price. Keep in mind, that $900 rifle with $400 in compliance work would never sell for $1,300 out of state...I would be lucky to get $500 for it from someone in say WV or FL since the rifle is chopped and nobody wants a chopped gun when they can buy a new one for the same price from a local shop without removing the FH and bayonet lug + pinning stocks and mags.

This is exactly why I jumped. I mean JUMPED when I saw the nj compliant ar upper exactly configured how I wanted it

[Down South 9]

Just want to ask how much are they getting for a NJ compliant AR upper . I made my brother a NJ compliant AR upper cost was not that much .  Was thinking maybe I could have a side job making NJ compliant uppers and stocks . Any feedback would be appreciated .

[n4p226r 105]

Depends on who you mean by "they" and what type of compliant upper you are talking about. Mine just happened to be a 14.5" with low profile block and pinned battle comp so it wasn't an add on cost. The dealer spec'd it from the manufacturer that way. Obviously it costs more for someone to take something like a 16" with non pinned a2 and front sight post with bayonet lug because they are modding and replacing installed parts. You essentially pay twice. Figure adco charges about $100 plus parts

[High Velocity 0]

I don't understand how it can be cheaper to build an AR than to buy an already "compliant" one in this state.

Lets say someone had a budget of less than a $950.

By the time I purchase all the parts and pay someone to make them NJ legal, wouldn't I end up spending as much if not more than the cost of a "NJ compliant" model Stag or Windham?

[checko 180]

I don't understand how it can be cheaper to build an AR than to buy an already "compliant" one in this state.

Lets say someone had a budget of less than a $950.

By the time I purchase all the parts and pay someone to make them NJ legal, wouldn't I end up spending as much if not more than the cost of a "NJ compliant" model Stag or Windham?

Factor in swapping out which parts you actually want and now have to buy extra. If you want to go and buy the cheapo stock carbine right of the rack with no upgrades or personalizations than yeah, maybe you can get it cheaper than buying.

[n4p226r 105]

I don't understand how it can be cheaper to build an AR than to buy an already "compliant" one in this state.

Lets say someone had a budget of less than a $950.

By the time I purchase all the parts and pay someone to make them NJ legal, wouldn't I end up spending as much if not more than the cost of a "NJ compliant" model Stag or Windham?

it's not.  if the off the shelf compliant is what you want.  but like the thread where the guy with the M&P sport wants to add a free float rail and muzzle break, it may work out that way.  he paid $900 for the gun.  say he sent the barrel to adco to have the work done.  

 

$900 for rifle

$65 for barrel threading

$55 for drill and pin low profile gas block

$40 to pin a muzzle device

$45 for low profile gas block from BCM

$95 for BCM comp

$200+ for a free float rail

 

so now his rifle will cost $1400+  because he had to buy parts twice.  even if he overpaid $200 on the rifle its still $1200+ (not including any shipping charges)

 

if he just browsed the midwest px kit he could pay $95 for a lower, $60 for a LPK, $100 for a stock kit, $130 for a BCG and bolt, $95 for a stripped upper, and $150 for a barrel he would have saved headache and a few hundred bucks.