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NJ2AS CARRY LICENSE APPLICATION SUBMISSION PROJECT (CLASP)

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Having had a similar experience, nothing in that document is out of character or unbelievable. But I'm a hater and a critic so do with it what you will.

As am I, however I do try to play devil's advocate. I agree with just about everything being said about transparency and lack of physical action. Talking on the front steps at Trenton is useless. It obviously did nothing, nor do other groups do it and still get what they seek. There was a constant bickering about Eck vs Lonegan that split a lot of the group also. I personally feel like if this is his full time gig, he should be in people's faces, marching for short hills mall, and going to the inner cities to walk his talk. If I didn't have to work 60+hrs to get by, I would do the same...plus I just don't like that he gets sweaty and stammering when he's front of a video camera.

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Anything happening with this? Are people applying? Do we have a course of action plotted out? Is this being discussed on Facebook?

Turned mine in last week.  One of my endorsers told me he received the same letter that they send out for P2P's.  Evidently they do not receive many requests to carry a handgun and so have no specific form letter.  Had to get the Certification from a firearms instructor and get the electronic fingerprints done.

 

Now it will just be a waiting game to be rejected, unless they are so used to not getting them that they slip up and approve it.......yeah sure!

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I'm thinking about the following for my justifiable need...

 

"As a physically disabled United States Veteran, my capacity for physical defense of my family, myself and my property is diminished. This is a direct result of serving my country and defending the Constitution of the United States of America, which, in the Second Amendment to The Bill of RIGHTS, guarantees that the RIGHT to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Due to my diminished physical ability for defense, I have a justifiable need to carry a handgun within the borders of the State of New Jersey for the purpose of self defense."

 

Maybe denying a disabled vet the right to self defense will get the attention of some folks.

 

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I'm thinking about the following for my justifiable need..."As a physically disabled United States Veteran, my capacity for physical defense of my family, myself and my property is diminished. This is a direct result of serving my country and defending the Constitution of the United States of America, which, in the Second Amendment to The Bill of RIGHTS, guarantees that the RIGHT to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Due to my diminished physical ability for defense, I have a justifiable need to carry a handgun within the borders of the State of New Jersey for the purpose of self defense."Maybe denying a disabled vet the right to self defense will get the attention of some folks. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thank you for your service for our great nation!

 

 

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Has anyone spoken to Anthony at Gun For Hire? I'm sure he does qualifications for police and armed guards. Perhaps he'd be willing to do a segment on Gun For Hire Radio. Maybe, just maybe, he'd be willing to help with organizing this mess into a practical effort. I'm going to try to stop by later.

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Has anyone spoken to Anthony at Gun For Hire? I'm sure he does qualifications for police and armed guards. Perhaps he'd be willing to do a segment on Gun For Hire Radio. Maybe, just maybe, he'd be willing to help with organizing this mess into a practical effort. I'm going to try to stop by later.

He is "out of the office" until Monday according to his email..

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Has anyone spoken to Anthony at Gun For Hire? I'm sure he does qualifications for police and armed guards. Perhaps he'd be willing to do a segment on Gun For Hire Radio. Maybe, just maybe, he'd be willing to help with organizing this mess into a practical effort. I'm going to try to stop by later.

 

 

He is "out of the office" until Monday according to his email..

 

Anthony went under Bariatric surgery the other day and I assume he is home recovering..... 

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Has anyone spoken to Anthony at Gun For Hire? I'm sure he does qualifications for police and armed guards. Perhaps he'd be willing to do a segment on Gun For Hire Radio. Maybe, just maybe, he'd be willing to help with organizing this mess into a practical effort. I'm going to try to stop by later.

I have mentioned this to Anthony, and he is opposed to it. Have not had a chance to discuss it in depth to find out his reasons.

 

For now, let's just wish him a speedy recovery.

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There are a lot of states w/ better ccw and yet worse overall gun laws than NJ.

Please name them.

 

There is no state in the Union with worse overall laws than NJ. Maryland and Hawaii are tough. But please tell me how a state that issues CCW can possibly be better than one that does not.

 

You can get a CC permit in northern California, western Massachusetts, and upstate NY. Even Connecticut, technically a "may issue" state, is practically a shall-issue state.

 

But overall, considering gun laws, regulations, taxes, etc., New Jersey is arguably the worst fucking place to live in this country.  "They just want their little guns and to be able to do anything they want with them."

 

The odds were long, about one in fifty, but we have won the fukcen booby prize. 

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I'm thinking about the following for my justifiable need... "As a physically disabled United States Veteran, my capacity for physical defense of my family, myself and my property is diminished. This is a direct result of serving my country and defending the Constitution of the United States of America, which, in the Second Amendment to The Bill of RIGHTS, guarantees that the RIGHT to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Due to my diminished physical ability for defense, I have a justifiable need to carry a handgun within the borders of the State of New Jersey for the purpose of self defense." Maybe denying a disabled vet the right to self defense will get the attention of some folks. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

First of all thank you for your service. Really.

Second of all, you gotta be kidding. They don't care about you. They and their ilk were happy to send you over as cannon fodder. Once you stopped being useful they don't give a shit about you.

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Of course they don't care about him, or any of us for that matter. But that's just the kind of denial we need to get some traction against those who deny us of our Second Amendment rights in this awful state.

That's exactly my point. When they deny a legitimate means of self defense to a disabled vet, the politicians may pat themselves on the backs but when word gets out to the numerous Veterans organizations (and I'm sure someone can make that happen) the Second Amendment violations that this state is perpetrating may finally get the attention they deserve. There is a lot of public support for veterans these days...not like it was 25 years ago when we were just "the baby killers".

 

 

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I agree that there are some useful things to do with a bunch of denials.   But I haven't heard NJ2AS say that they have a plan with what to do with a bunch of denials.

 

NJ2AS told everyone at a public meeting that right to carry was not a project for this year

The meeting fell apart as everyone there argued that right-to-carry was something we wanted - it got kind of ugly.

A few days later project CLASP was announced with no promotion, no step 2.

 

I'm don't believe that project CLASP is really a project at all - just a way to appease the members.   I expect an announcement that not enough people participated so NJ2AS is off the hook for right to carry and it's the memberships fault - again.

 

I'd participate in such a project if it had a followup plan that made sense.

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That's exactly my point. When they deny a legitimate means of self defense to a disabled vet, the politicians may pat themselves on the backs but when word gets out to the numerous Veterans organizations (and I'm sure someone can make that happen) the Second Amendment violations that this state is perpetrating may finally get the attention they deserve. There is a lot of public support for veterans these days...not like it was 25 years ago when we were just "the baby killers".

 

 

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I admire your positive opinion on vet orgs... But in reality they all know it's nj and "that's just how it is there, if rights are important to you..move" is the response you'll get from most orgs/people from the NRA right on down the line...if it was an outright denied right like Chicago ..that's would be different..the nail in the coffin is "May issue".... And regardless of right and wrong if "justifiable need" isn't met no permit ...how many hundreds of thousands of dollars have been spent trying to fight denials in court?....how many have won?....the whole "I'm going to apply ...I'll get denied but then people will see and orgs will have to do something then" isn't a new concept... They just are among those that have to list the denial for the rest of their lives on firearm related forms ...

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The simple fact is that "justifiable need" in NJ is an unattainable standard.  People who have been kidnapped multiple times and have credible threats against their lives continue to be denied.  What hope then is there for you and I?  The hope I hold out is to "just move".

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Insanity is doing the same thing the same over and over and expecting different results. If you do nothing, that is exactly what will happen....nothing. If we want things to change WE have to try to make them change. By sitting back and saying "they'll never change the rules no matter what we do", you're exactly right. They'll never even consider it because nobody is bitching. When enough people start pushing back, SOMEONE will eventually take notice and maybe flip their thinking switch to "ON".

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I've already accepted the fact that there's a 99.99% chance that I will be denied. But that's not going to stop me from trying. As long as the state can make the statement that they approve 9x% of submitted CCW applications, no one is going to ask "why so few?". If the answer changes to "We approve 0.x% of submitted applications", then there is grounds for public questioning of The Powers That Be.

 

 

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The simple fact is that "justifiable need" in NJ is an unattainable standard.  People who have been kidnapped multiple times and have credible threats against their lives continue to be denied.  What hope then is there for you and I?  The hope I hold out is to "just move".

I would think that the guy that got killed at short Hills Mall had Justifiable Need.

 

I would like to know at what point was the threshold crossed.

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I would like to know at what point was the threshold crossed.

 

It may sound humorous, or even cynical, but legislation and court cases show that as soon as he expired, THEN the threshold was crossed, but not one fraction of a second before.

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I've already accepted the fact that there's a 99.99% chance that I will be denied. But that's not going to stop me from trying. As long as the state can make the statement that they approve 9x% of submitted CCW applications, no one is going to ask "why so few?". If the answer changes to "We approve 0.x% of submitted applications", then there is grounds for public questioning of The Powers That Be. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I commend you for giving it a shot ...and I'm not belittling your effort/sacrifice in submitting the application....how ever I disagree that 20-41-100 denials will make a difference in this shithole state ....the evil at the reins of this abomination of a state don't want you to have a right guaranteed in the constitution .... And will lie cheat and manipulate the system to keep the status quo .....what needs to happen for the desired change is for everyone of them to be voted out of office...but the people that preach the loudest are the ones that don't vote...and half the gun community that does vote ...actually voted for the clowns in power....I'm constantly amazed at people I come across through work/military gun owning/carrying people that are far closer in beliefs with the anti/gun ban/ridiculous restrictions crowd....than me.....

 

It's a shame there can't be an origination in nj that could skip the Facebook jr hs popularity club bs and actually put together a plan to move things forward and organize the gun owners in nj....then maybe it would mean something to the politicians that play to the masses to keep their no good a$$es in office .....but an disorganized random smattering of 40 applications spread across the state will do little for the cause...call it being negative if you wish...but it's just the sad reality of the situation.....

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It may sound humorous, or even cynical, but legislation and court cases show that as soon as he expired, THEN the threshold was crossed, but not one fraction of a second before.

Not to mock the deceased ..but if by chance he did not die...and applied for a permit to carry ...he would assuredly be denied....as seen in previous cases

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Not to mock the deceased ..but if by chance he did not die...and applied for a permit to carry ...he would assuredly be denied....as seen in previous cases

 

That was my point.  Not until he was dead had he achieved NJ's level of Justifiable Need...

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That was my point.  Not until he was dead had he achieved NJ's level of Justifiable Need...

 

I think the way it works is that when the bad guy pointed a gun at him he had justifieable need. However, instead of filling in a couple of forms, getting fingerprinted, waiting 30 days for his PD Chief to decide he actually had a justifiable need and then waiting a further 30 days for a superior court judge to agree and doing a qualification, the poor fellow lost his life.

 

If he had survived but the bad guy was no longer threatening him the justifiable need would no longer exist and he would be denied a permit. If a similar event were to occur again he would have to start again with the form filling.

 

As he did in fact lose his life justifiable need died with him as there is no urgent necessity to defend a dead man.

 

I just don't see why anyone can't see the sense in this.

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