custom fabricated 30rd pmags

[thelosticon 0]

been working on this for a while now, finally got a prototype I'm very happy with. the project began with 2 30rd pmag bodies, cut down to 15 each, base plates are removed and replaced with a custom formed thermoplastic internal connector, then roll pinned and finally wrapped and epoxyd in .028 formed kydex. each side holds 15rds, with a total of 30 rds. they are not continually fed, so once you exhaust one side you must flip over for the next 15.

 

[Blacksmythe 71]

Very interesting. I would be interested in these. I know others would be as well.

[Sht 3]

Very cool idea, but I bet they would still try to nail your balls to the wall if given a chance.

[thelosticon 0]

at the end of the day its nothing but a magazine coupler, I am absolutely not the least bit concerned with its legality.

[NJKen 23]

It may seem like a coupler to you but if it is permenantly one piece it could be considered a single magazine capable of holding more than 15 rounds.  I think that law is BS but the law is the law and I would hate to see someone get busted for making something cool and useful but just a little out of the "definition" of the law.

BTW, pretty nice work there!

Ken

[thelosticon 0]

direct from title 2c chapter 39 . "Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container which is capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be FED CONTINUOUSLY  and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm.

[MidwestPX 172]

I did something similar with a pair of 30s but that was simple as I just had to take two baseplates, drill two holes in them and pass a "chicago" screw threw.  Purely a range toy since it imparts all kinds of bad habits.  Pretty neat seeing a 15rd x2 version though.  That one took a good bit more work than mine so kudos!

 

edit: come to think of it, you could do what I did with the 30s with the cut down 15s I make.

[thelosticon 0]

I actually tried your method also but decided against it for 2 reasons, it failed my drop test and second I hated having the bump in the middle that the base plates give

[kman 56]

It's an interesting attempt to work around the statute.  Trying to think through if it works.  Here's what the definition is:

 

"Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container, which is capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm.

 

So this magazine definitely holds more than 15 rounds, and it definitely feeds those rounds into a semi-automatic firearm, and therefore the only question is because it can only feed 15 at a time without flipping it, is it feeding the semi-automatic firearm "continuously and directly"?  Depends on what your interpretation of "continuously and directly" is.

 

If you have to remove it, turn it over, and reconnect it to feed the 16th round, then arguably it isn't feeding that 16th round continuously, although it fed the prior 15 continuously.  There's a discontinuity preventing the 16th round from automatically feeding because the magazine needs to be removed, flipped over and reinserted. 

 

On the other hand, the statute is not clear whether all the rounds (beyond 15 allowed) need to be continuously fed.  In other words, if it holds 30, and 15 feed continuously, and the rest don't feed continuously, is that enough continuous feeding to satisfy the requirement of continuous and automatic feeding to make it illegal?  The statute doesn't specifically and explicitly say that ALL rounds have to feed continuously.  (I.E. it doesn't say "more than 15 rounds of ammunition all of which to be fed continuously").  On the other hand, the wording does strongly imply that the rounds that the magazine does hold have to feed continuously.  The question would be whether the 16th round has to feed continuously in order to fulfill the continuity requirement of the statute and make it illegal. 

 

The statute isn't crystal clear on this, and I could see a judge holding that 15 is the legal limit for capacity and that 15 has nothing to do with continuity.  And thus by that reasoning if it holds more than 15, and rounds feed continously in general, it is illegal.  If you are relying upon a NJ judge giving a wide interpretation (or even a reasonable interpretation) to gun laws in this state, you are taking a big risk.

 

I'm assuming you hacksawed the 30 round magazines in half before you crossed the border into NJ right?

[thelosticon 0]

I'm assuming you hacksawed the 30 round magazines in half before you crossed the border into NJ right?

Sure did

[checko 180]

Aren't these regarded as legal?

 

Don't see what the debate is imo. You have to drop the mag after 15 RDS therefore its not continuous.

[alec.mc 180]

Pretty cool idea.

 

The way I read and understand the law, Legal - I do not see an issue with it.

[thelosticon 0]

Aren't these regarded as legal?

 

Don't see what the debate is imo. You have to drop the mag after 15 RDS therefore its not continuous.

finally..... some logic

[Clintoon Eastwood 2]

Aren't these regarded as legal?

 

Don't see what the debate is imo. You have to drop the mag after 15 RDS therefore its not continuous.

If this is legal, then I don't see why thelosticon's mag isn't legal.

Problem solved. But that doesn't mean you won't catch some kind of "heat" for it

 

I don't have that 3 mag thingy, but I do have a couple of the 2 mag thingy for the 10/22

[Heavyopp 167]

If this is legal, then I don't see why thelosticon's mag isn't legal.

 

 

Losticons mag is 1 mag -- He puts them together permanently -- at least thats the way it seems -- 2 mags permanently made into 1 mag

 

the 3 mag thingy is a separate item added to hold 3 mags together --- it doesn't permanently make 3 10 round mags into a 30 round mag -- they are still 10 round mags 

 

 

 

Too much "interpretation" around 30 round mags for me to take the chance... 

[checko 180]

Losticons mag is 1 mag -- He puts them together permanently -- at least thats the way it seems -- 2 mags permanently made into 1 mag

 

the 3 mag thingy is a separate item added to hold 3 mags together --- it doesn't permanently make 3 10 round mags into a 30 round mag -- they are still 10 round mags

 

 

 

Too much "interpretation" around 30 round mags for me to take the chance...

You're telling me if you weld the 10/22 mags together it all of a sudden becomes illegal?

 

Bottom line is you pop 15 rounds and run dry, keep pulling the trigger and nothing happens. There for its not continuous.

[Heavyopp 167]

You're telling me if you weld the 10/22 mags together it all of a sudden becomes illegal?

 

Bottom line is you pop 15 rounds and run dry, keep pulling the trigger and nothing happens. There for its not continuous.

I'm not telling you anything ---  I don't know --

 

Thing is -- nobody knows 

 

 

You want to be the test case????????????

[checko 180]

I'm not telling you anything --- I don't know --

 

Thing is -- nobody knows

 

 

You want to be the test case????????????

I understand how it is in nj with all the vague and hazy laws. IMO this law is pretty clear.

[Heavyopp 167]

 

Bottom line is you pop 15 rounds and run dry, keep pulling the trigger and nothing happens. There for its not continuous.

 

I tried to make the same argument with the mag rebuild kits --  General consensus was  even a disassembled 30 rnd mag is illegal because it's still a 30 rnd mag

 

A disassembled mag will in no way continuously feed ammunition

 

This mag in question is not 2 15 rnd mags -- it is 1 30 rnd mag in this configuration -- the way the statute is written it never says all 30 must be fed continuously -- 

 

Common sense say they should but does common sense apply in the court??? 

[checko 180]

It's an interesting attempt to work around the statute. Trying to think through if it works. Here's what the definition is:

 

"Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container, which is capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm.

 

I tried to make the same argument with the mag rebuild kits -- General consensus was even a disassembled 30 rnd mag is illegal because it's still a 30 rnd mag

 

A disassembled mag will in no way continuously feed ammunition

 

This mag in question is not 2 15 rnd mags -- it is 1 30 rnd mag in this configuration -- the way the statute is written it never says all 30 must be fed continuously --

 

Common sense say they should but does common sense apply in the court???

I have to disagree with you. There is no "or fed continuously". It must be all of the above. Continuously and directly means fed straight into the gun without stopping for more than 15 rounds. This most definitely satisfies the statute.

 

Rebuild kits are different as they have that capability to break said statute.

[ChrisJM981 924]

You guys and your tinfoil hats. Un%@#$ingbelieveable.

 

con·tin·u·ous adjective \kən-ˈtin-yü-əs\

: continuing without stopping : happening or existing without a break or interruption

 

 

[alec.mc 180]

I tried to make the same argument with the mag rebuild kits --  General consensus was  even a disassembled 30 rnd mag is illegal because it's still a 30 rnd mag

 

A disassembled mag will in no way continuously feed ammunition

 

This mag in question is not 2 15 rnd mags -- it is 1 30 rnd mag in this configuration -- the way the statute is written it never says all 30 must be fed continuously -- 

 

Common sense say they should but does common sense apply in the court??? 

 

 

It doesn't look like 1 30 round magazine to me.

 

It looks like two 30 round mags cut in half , even if disassembled, it's not like you can magically make them into one 30 rounder.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I actually find that it satisfies a very small portion of consumers.. People in NJ who want to pack 30rnd mags into pouches, while still being legal. Unlike the couplers these only extended the mag itself and allow for the use of standard 30rng mag pouches. My suggestion would be to add a removable rubber slip cap to the magazine opening for the bottom half, keeps debris out, and you can just quickly kick it off while transitioning. The dust cover would work, but would take longer to remove.

[checko 180]

I actually find that it satisfies a very small portion of consumers.. People in NJ who want to pack 30rnd mags into pouches, while still being legal. Unlike the couplers these only extended the mag itself and allow for the use of standard 30rng mag pouches. My suggestion would be to add a removable rubber slip cap to the magazine opening for the bottom half, keeps debris out, and you can just quickly kick it off while transitioning. The dust cover would work, but would take longer to remove.

I was thinking about this before but think either cap would be a pain to quickly reload with one hand. Interesting to try though.

[Heavyopp 167]

I have to disagree with you. There is no "or fed continuously". It must be all of the above. Continuously and directly means fed straight into the gun without stopping for more than 15 rounds. This most definitely satisfies the statute.

 

 

 

We don't disagree --  I believe continuously to mean exactly what you are saying --  I'm just trying to point out that it may not be spelled out in the statute leaving room for interpretation -- 

 

I really do want it to be legal 

[checko 180]

We don't disagree -- I believe continuously to mean exactly what you are saying -- I'm just trying to point out that it may not be spelled out in the statute leaving room for interpretation --

 

I really do want it to be legal

I understand and don't mean to be standoffish but I don't think there is as much room as you think. Continuous doesn't have a whole lot if grey area or alternate meanings. The law couldn't possibly define every word of every statute. Sometimes it needs to be taken at face value.

[kman 56]

Can't say 100% it is legal, because gun law enforcement in this state is just too uncertain.  We all want it to be legal, and can make arguments that it is legal, but that doesn't necessarily make it so.

 

Would anyone here bring one of these 30 round "noncontinuous" magazines to the police station and ask them if it is legal?  If that doesn't sound like a nice afternoon conversation at the police station, then that's the point here - it's asking for trouble in this state. 

 

Unless you have a nice big bank account to pay the lawyer to argue that a "noncontinuous" 30 round magazine is legal, then it is a risky proposition to be in possession of one of these things, or to sell them. 

 

It's all fun and games till you are under arrest for a felony, have your hands cuffed, picture taken, fingerprints made, car siezed, impounded and auctioned off, guns confiscated, FPID card revoked, attorney retainer paid, bail posted, and job lost.

 

I'll just make sure I'm not in the same car as anyone who has one of these on them.

[kman 56]

By the way if you are serious about making these you should lawyer up so you can safely and legally submit a sample for a ruling by the NJ Attorney General or the NJ State Police or something like that for a formal legal determination as to whether it is a "large capacity ammunition magazine" under the NJ law or not.  If they say it is illegal, then you can drop the idea without being arrested.  If they say it is not a banned item, then you are cleared to go to production and sale and have proof of legality if you get pulled over, and you can give assurance to your customers that your product has been determined to be legal and they won't get in trouble.  I don't know what the law is in other states, but it seems you would have plenty of customers in NJ, NY, CA, CO, and a few other states.  Perhaps this is patentable.  Magpul might end up buying you out for a nice check.  If you are going to do this, do it right.

[SgtToadette 59]

Not to come off as an ass, but this conversation is ridiculous. This device is very clearly legal, and I would be happy to be the test case should it ever come down to it. The law requires continuous feeding, and this device does not allow it. If I super glue two legal mags together, they do not become illegal. This is nothing more than glorified mag coupling. End of story.

 

I don't care about conjecture on the state's interpretation.

[Jon 264]

Whoever thinks this "could be illegal" needs to load their HD firearm with FMJs, only drive directly to and from the range with unloaded magazines in a separate, locked container from their gun(also in a locked container) and ammo(in another locked container) all in separate compartments of their locked trunk. Also, for the love of all that is holy do not stop for gas, because you never know in New Jersey!