Time to start a new gun group in NJ???

[brocglock23 4]

Simply this - the guy JUST resigned. How about we let the waters settle first before throwing the baby out with the bath water?

I get what you're saying. Believe me, I do. But when the president of an organization quits publicly it's a natural reaction to comment. I noticed that no one said anything here yet and I knew a good amount of members don't use Facebook. Am I ready to never be a nj2as member again, no? I'm just pumping the breaks and publicly asking what others are going to do or are at least thinking.

 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

[brocglock23 4]

The organization MUST be larger than Frank (or any ONE man) if it is to have any staying power. Similar to the founding of this country, the reason George Washington refused to serve more than two terms was that he wanted the people to understand that the Country was larger than he, and that the people did NOT need a "king" as it was contrary to the overall intent of the revolution and the establishment of these United States.

 

Frank has done a great job of establishing NJ2AS. Just as in business, there are entrepreneurs who start businesses, and they're GREAT at starting businesses, but once the business is running, they're no longer challenged and interested, it's time for them to sell what they established and do another start up. By the same token, there are other business men and women who can't start a business but can take one that is started and make it evolve, refine and grow further.

 

In my opinion, it's time for an evolver and a refiner to fine tune NJ2AS.

 

My two cents, without airing dirty laundry.

and +1 for this. As I started. Not a frank hater, don't know the guy. Like what the nj2as stands for. Hope I will continue to support if thing stabilize. Just still believe this forum can be used for greater things when it comes to communication.

 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

 

[ronhonda 86]

If the group falls because 1 man leaves.....    then it deserves to die.....

This.

[mipafox 438]

The organization MUST be larger than Frank (or any ONE man) if it is to have any staying power. 

I assume everybody that has made or echoed similar comments in this thread (not picking on you personally) has done a lot more for the organization than simply show up at a rally and mail an annual check.

 

If not, then the organization falls because of you, not because of Frank or its intrinsic merits.

 

Herding cats isn't easy, and 2A activists are as rare in Jersey as stray cat herds in the Szechuan province of China. When you have something small, valuable, and one of a kind, you should nurture it. Not kick it in the gut to see if it is worthy of survival. Perhaps someday it will be able to take that kick in the gut if we all do our part.

[s8n 14]

Well, I'm sure Sen. Weinberg and her cronies from Columbia U are cackling with glee. I don't know what all the drama is about, as I don't have facebook, thankfully. But it's always the case, I see it at CJRPC, and volunteer committees and organizations everywhere. It usually follows the script of some person(s) take initiative and do something, the organization gains momentum and members, and requires a structure for operational or legal reasons. This of course may involve money, and as soon as people donate some money, they expect things to go the way they want to. A dissident faction questions how the money is being spent, and accuses the founders and builders of all sorts of malfeasance and incompetence. Founders leave, along with their allies, and the dissidents rarely step up and actually run things, their specialty is complaining, not actually doing. The organization shambles along for awhile, and mayyyybeeee somoene else steps up and gets things going again. Or not, and the whole thing goes in the dustbin. We'll see how NJ2As weathers this storm. I have more faith in the group and appreciate all the hard work they have done in the past few years

 

  In my opinion this is a perfect explanation of the situation.

[matty 810]

yeah, BTDT as well, I just don't let it bother me anymore and proceed with what I can do given the time I have. Life is too short to get in squabbles among volunteers.

Matty - you must be psychic!

 

I've been in a large number of organizations...with leadership positions in a few...and you've hit the nail squarely on its head, Matt.

[kwadz 11]

For those of us without access to Facebook, would please someone repost on here what Frank posted announcing his resignation? 

 

My wife and I have met Frank countless times and had more than several phone conversations with him over the past 3 years.  I'm very disappointed, sad, and shocked to this news.  For those of you who aren't aware, Frank is retired from regular day jobs and has been putting a full-time effort into running this organization and standing up for ALL of us, regardless of whether you agree with everything he says or does.  There is no single person replacement for Frank based on his time and effort.  He put in the work of 10 part-time members AND as one person/face became a household name within our community in NJ. 

 

I sincerely hope that Frank rescinds his resignation and decides to stay with us.  While anybody is technically replaceable, the effort to find someone as dedicated as Frank is a daunting task for all NJ2AS members. 

[raz-0 1,259]

I've had a couple of conversations with Frank via email. I was polite, and so was he. The answers might not have been what I would have preferred, but they were the answers good or bad, and for practical reasons. 

 

I avoid Facebook like the plague, it's a place for drama to be created by people with nothing better to do in a format that you can wear everywhere like a hair shirt. So far all I have heard are people whining in a manner that boils down to "I gave you $XXX, why haven't we won already," "without something concrete to show for it, we must not be making progress because of misuse of funds, obviously we could be spending every penny better and you are a crook," and "In my continued badgering of Frank, he cursed at me on the phone."  All with no evidence to date, although in theory evidence was going to be posted imminently every day for the last week at least. 

 

My interpretation of the above gripes is basically (in order), You are a moron, shut up. Sometimes there is no time to spend money the most efficient way possible if you don't want to miss the bus, and sometimes it comes down to a learning process, but at the very least, if you aren't showing up with numbers on how to do it better next time and you KNOW they are right, shut up and stop volunteering other people's limited time. And to the last one, were you being a dick first? Because sometimes that'll get you cursed out and rightfully so. 

 

Even with this, STILL the least dysfunctional 2a rights group I've dealt with in NJ. 

[djg0770 481]

I assume everybody that has made or echoed similar comments in this thread (not picking on you personally) has done a lot more for the organization than simply show up at a rally and mail an annual check.

 

If not, then the organization falls because of you, not because of Frank or its intrinsic merits.

 

Herding cats isn't easy, and 2A activists are as rare in Jersey as stray cat herds in the Szechuan province of China. When you have something small, valuable, and one of a kind, you should nurture it. Not kick it in the gut to see if it is worthy of survival. Perhaps someday it will be able to take that kick in the gut if we all do our part.

 

An appropriate reply to your conjecture requires airing dirty laundry which has been done ad nauseum elsewhere.  There's no point in continuing to discuss it here when there's already a very active discussion going on elsewhere. 

 

Herding cats isn't easy - agreed.  Herding cats with an electric prod and a sharp tongue results in no herd and no cats.

[djg0770 481]

I've had a couple of conversations with Frank via email. I was polite, and so was he.

 

Lucky you.  He doesn't take any criticism well, period.

 

My interpretation of the above gripes is basically (in order), You are a moron, shut up. Sometimes there is no time to spend money the most efficient way possible if you don't want to miss the bus, and sometimes it comes down to a learning process, but at the very least, if you aren't showing up with numbers on how to do it better next time and you KNOW they are right, shut up and stop volunteering other people's limited time. And to the last one, were you being a dick first? Because sometimes that'll get you cursed out and rightfully so.

 

A PRESIDENT is supposed to be PRESIDENTIAL.  Cursing someone out demonstrates that despite being "in a position of control" you have no control over yourself.

[mipafox 438]

Understood. I'm just trying to push the conversation in a positive direction. There is something here worth maintaining and supporting. Change is great. But the satisfaction of watching it die will be short lived.

[67gtonut 847]

IMHO....

 

Frank should step down, but still be active. It is time for someone else to take the helm, and continue the positive things that are being done....

 

In most clubs/organizations.....  ex-Presidents usually become part of a Board ......  

 

Nothing wrong with this way of doing things, and would make the group stronger in the future....

[Bbott 1]

Is this 100% legit? I checked the NJ2AS Facebook page and also Frank's Facebook page, I'm not seeing anything about resignation. Maybe I am looking in the wrong place, can someone please advise?

[kwadz 11]

Lucky you.  He doesn't take any criticism well, period.

 

 

A PRESIDENT is supposed to be PRESIDENTIAL.  Cursing someone out demonstrates that despite being "in a position of control" you have no control over yourself.

 

I've never witnessed either of these (not that I'm saying they couldn't have happened), but even if they are entirely true, he has done more for our cause in NJ than possibly ANYONE in history.  If you guys can't find someone who could do a better job, support him, but join the organization and volunteer, get on boards, be active.  Do something instead of just complaining that HE isn't doing what you want.

[kwadz 11]

Is this 100% legit? I checked the NJ2AS Facebook page and also Frank's Facebook page, I'm not seeing anything about resignation. Maybe I am looking in the wrong place, can someone please advise?

 

I was wondering the same since I was on Facebook last night until midnight and didn't see anything pertaining to this.  I don't have access right now, which is why I asked that someone repost his statement on here.

[brocglock23 4]

 

I was wondering the same since I was on Facebook last night until midnight and didn't see anything pertaining to this. I don't have access right now, which is why I asked that someone repost his statement on here.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[diamondd817 826]

Who is Ron Soussa?

[Bbott 1]

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Thanks! I don't see that post on his page anymore. Maybe he cooled off and deleted it?

[brocglock23 4]

Thanks! I don't see that post on his page anymore. Maybe he cooled off and deleted it?

check the nj2as page. It was just there.

 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

 

[kwadz 11]

Thank you for reposting!

[chris327 30]

Who is Ron Soussa?

a quick google of his name will give you some info. Not sure what he said though

[DirtyDigz 1,811]

I'm not privy as to what's going on with the infighting.  I've had a couple of short communications with Frank in the past and he was cordial, but I also didn't accuse him of anything.

 

Whatever your opinion of the organization, you have to admit they made more tangible progress for gun rights in NJ in the past 2-3 years than much older and more "established" organizations did.

[A-Tech 8]

Here's the problem with Frank. NJ2AS is his child, and he takes it too much to heart. Any tune you criticize him, or the action plan, he goes NUTS. He immediately resorts to calling you stupid and worthless unless you can sacrifice your time to volunteer. Donations mean nothing to him as finding members are repeatedly ostracized and belittled. I stopped suggesting ideas because that's exactly the way I was treated and on a public forum. I believe in NJ2AS, but I don't believe in Frank's ability to run all aspects of it. He's pulled in 1000 directions and it's taking it toll.

[Shane45 807]

A couple of points to ponder from a currently inactive founding board member:

 

The cost of Frank's position to him is extensive in term of time and effort at the sacrafice of all the time he COULD be spending with his grandchildren and family in his retirement years.

 

If Frank indeed steps down, who will fill the workload void? Even when I was active, the riegns to step up and take charge were always available for anyone that thought they could do better!!! NO ONE stepped up because when your actually there, it is chrystal clear how heavy is the burdan of the crown. No one else IN THE KNOW could/would accept the responsibility knowing the personal expence at hand. I dont know many in a position to work a FULL TIME JOB for FREE measured in YEARS!!!!

 

How disheartening is it to pay that personal expence and constantly hear from the sideline know it alls who really have no clue what going on, but wont waste a second thinking about what they are saying before they jump on places like here and run their mouths like they know something. I mean really, look at what happens everytime NJ2AS is mentioned here on the forum. People come running to run their mouths about the thing they heard from a friend of a friend years ago about NJ2AS this and NJ2AS that every time they come up. Its an additional insult of course that its incorrect. But they come running just the same. Maybe its guilt that they didnt get off their ass and do something themselves, I dont know, but it wears on a person I'm sure.

[kwadz 11]

I believe in NJ2AS, but I don't believe in Frank's ability to run all aspects of it. He's pulled in 1000 directions and it's taking it toll.

 

In Frank's defense, he always stated he did NOT want to lead the organization and he wanted to turn it over to someone else who was more willing.  But again and again, nobody steps up to the plate.  Everyone just complains about him without offering to take over and run it differently or better.  He's stated consistently that he wants to spend more time with his family and grandkids and he has literally begged for people to offer to step up.  The entire group would be willing to get behind a new president if someone with even half of Frank's passion stepped up, but for some reason everyone would rather just complain.  Frank is human, not perfect, and he never claimed to be perfect or even a leader, yet he still has made more progress than anyone before him. 

[Vlad G 345]

 

A PRESIDENT is supposed to be PRESIDENTIAL.  Cursing someone out demonstrates that despite being "in a position of control" you have no control over yourself.

 

Sorry that is nonsense. A president is supposed to be the chief executive. Don't confuse national politics and bombastic speeches and Kennedy gala's with getting crap done. 

 

My only dog in this fight is NJ gun laws, I couldn't care less about who has what high school drama club tiff with who. People need to grow the frack up, worry less about their precious bone china feelings, grow a skin layer and get into the fight. Am I going to agree with everyone all the time?  Hell no, but at this point action is a lot better then sitting on our hands bitching. 

 

Also is you think cursing is not presidential  ... compared to what? Nixon? Clinton? 

[djg0770 481]

F you Vlad G.  You have no idea what it takes to do what we do here.  You're a keyboard commando full of piss and vinegar.  I told you I was f&^#%_ busy, too busy to bother with your petty idea about having a (insert whatever good or bad idea here).  If you continue in this vein, you will be banned from this forum.  You're a pisant know nothing.  What have you done for the cause?  Huh?  Really, well you brought 35 people into shooting, good at ya, we have brought this message to thousands, literally thousands of people.  Now they know.  Here, (throws $35 bucks at Vlad) here's your god damn membership fee.  >I< don't want you in MY organization you useless troll.

 

 

 

 

You mean like that Vlad?  Cause that's the bs.

 

Oh - btw, you're not banned.

[gunguy1960 2]

I am impressed by results, any group that can list what nj gun laws they have gotten repealed gets my attention, its certainly not credible to just say without our organization the laws would be worse, tell me what gun laws in nj have been repealed by a groups actions, thats results.

[gunguy1960 2]

Might be a good time for moderators to consider switching to decaf.

[djg0770 481]

Might be a good time for moderators to consider switching to decaf.

 

Leave my Farking Coffee alone!  God damn liberals wanna ban all the good shit.