Time to start a new gun group in NJ???

[mipafox 438]

I was middle of the road until I saw more and more evidence coming to light. Telling someone that the org has no interest or resources is one thing. Calling them effing stupid and personal attacks are another. If you can't handle the pressures of the position delegate or step down. I think the control issues, pride and just arrogance fueled this beyond where it needed to go.

He's a volunteer, not a CEO. He gets paid only in complaints.

 

Perhaps he does need to step down. Guess what? You got that.

 

Want him to feel like no gun owners in Jersey respect him anymore and think he's a douchebag? Check, got that too.

 

Want him miserable and angry and alone? Check.

 

So, what else do we want? Want him to stop supporting the cause? Want him dead? What will it take? Why is this all about him and not about RKBA? Everyone here knows this guy is an asset.

[mipafox 438]

So what do you do when said person is flipping his lid repeatedly over say, 6 months or so?

You've neglected to support him for that long?

 

In that case, I think the prudent move would be for you to replace him and accept the position yourself.

[intercooler 41]

Hitler was a volunteer too

[A-Tech 8]

You've neglected to support him for that long?

 

In that case, I think the prudent move would be for you to replace him and accept the position yourself.

You're neglecting the fact that it's not one person making complaints. I get it. He's got it hard. When he had executives to help, they stepped down because of him. He's done this to himself and is doing the right thing by allowing someone else to come in. Would I do it? Yes. It's in my nature to be a hard headed prick until I get my way. CAN I do it? No. I honestly don't even have time to go to a meeting and haven't even shot in months, which is unheard of for me.

 

The point that all are trying to make is, there needs to be structure. There is no structure to a group that is growing exponentially. There is no financial transparency, (whether it's being misused or not, simply questioning it gets you banned), and there is a lack of interest in ideas from members. Starting that second group was to raise awareness to those that were unaware of what had actually transpired, since Frank constantly deletes anything of disagreement from "his" page.

 

It's amazing how much negative feedback Frank gave everyone mentioning capitalizing on short hills. By negative feedback, I actually mean "you're an idiot" or "do it yourself, I'm not interested" followed by excuses of prior engagements taking precedent (home safety seminar including a dozen students).

[Shane45 807]

Thats a retarded comment....

[Shane45 807]

I'm not here to defend or take sides but to evoke some thoughts and considerations. I would say, A-Tech, that its simply time management. When your giving your time for free, you certainly dont want to spend it wrapped up with BS.

[kwadz 11]

The point that all are trying to make is, there needs to be structure. There is no structure to a group that is growing exponentially. There is no financial transparency, (whether it's being misused or not, simply questioning it gets you banned), and there is a lack of interest in ideas from members. Starting that second group was to raise awareness to those that were unaware of what had actually transpired, since Frank constantly deletes anything of disagreement from "his" page.

 

It's amazing how much negative feedback Frank gave everyone mentioning capitalizing on short hills. By negative feedback, I actually mean "you're an idiot" or "do it yourself, I'm not interested" followed by excuses of prior engagements taking precedent (home safety seminar including a dozen students).

 

As a member of NJ2AS, I also take offense that a page was made mocking our membership.  Whether the target was Frank or all of us, the entire organization was attacked in a public forum that undoubtedly is watched by our biggest political foes.  In fact, until the group/site is removed entirely, we are being continuously mocked.  This group should be taken down immediately or have its name changed to represent a personal vendetta against Frank and not the organization on the whole.

 

Frank might have been under a tremendous deal of pressure at the busiest time of the year while trying to organize an event mostly by himself (without much help due to the lack of volunteers).  Is it a crime for him to suggest that others actually take some responsibility if they want action on a topic?  I agree that he should not have used names since many are thin skinned, but suggesting that others actually volunteer some time and organize something is exactly what I want the president of my organization to do.  I see nothing wrong with that.  If he (and/or the board) felt that it was in poor taste to have the organization's name tied to a rally immediately following a murder, then I would hope that he would decline attaching OUR group name to such a rally.

[A-Tech 8]

I'm not here to defend or take sides but to evoke some thoughts and considerations. I would say, A-Tech, that its simply time management. When your giving your time for free, you certainly dont want to spend it wrapped up with BS.

And it's exactly why I've been suggesting for the last month that there needs to be a stronger form of structure. A board of directors and appointees. Frank carries all the weight and it's obviously taking its toll

[A-Tech 8]

As a member of NJ2AS, I also take offense that a page was made mocking our membership. Whether the target was Frank or all of us, the entire organization was attacked in a public forum that undoubtedly is watched by our biggest political foes. In fact, until the group/site is removed entirely, we are being continuously mocked. This group should be taken down immediately or have its name changed to represent a personal vendetta against Frank and not the organization on the whole.

 

Frank might have been under a tremendous deal of pressure at the busiest time of the year while trying to organize an event mostly by himself (without much help due to the lack of volunteers). Is it a crime for him to suggest that others actually take some responsibility if they want action on a topic? I agree that he should not have used names since many are thin skinned, but suggesting that others actually volunteer some time and organize something is exactly what I want the president of my organization to do. I see nothing wrong with that. If he (and/or the board) felt that it was in poor taste to have the organization's name tied to a rally immediately following a murder, then I would hope that he would decline attaching OUR group name to such a rally.

 

As a member of NJ2AS, I can say that there was never anything mocking the membership and you'll see that if you read the statement posted in that group.

 

It's not an issue of members having thin skin. It's an issue of the president, representing us gun owners, calling "his" members stupid, ignorant, idiots, etc. Wtf is that? How do you excuse that? Not one or two members either. It also wasn't an issue of volunteering time. It was him telling people that he genuinely didn't give a shit what they thought and to go start their own 2a group, and doing so publicly.

 

Look I don't think Frank is a bad guy. I think he's overwhelmed and needs help. I also think he should not be responsible for social media. Hell I don't even think he should be doing tv interviews. But he's made a lot of ground for our cause and I appreciate that. I would hate to see him not apart of the organization otherwise. He just needs to be out of the spotlight.

[Shane45 807]

....there is a board. But if I'm not mistaken, Frank IS the only one doing the heavy lifting full time. Again, it is a volunteer org. So what can be done, is. Its not perfect. But that is the achilies heal, having to pick and choose what can be achieved with limited rescources is the order of the day. And when everyones pet project gets overlooked, is there understanding for the sitrep? Or monday morning quarterbacks pointing fingers?

[lunker 274]

As a member of NJ2AS, I also take offense that a page was made mocking our membership.  Whether the target was Frank or all of us, the entire organization was attacked in a public forum that undoubtedly is watched by our biggest political foes.  In fact, until the group/site is removed entirely, we are being continuously mocked.  This group should be taken down immediately or have its name changed to represent a personal vendetta against Frank and not the organization on the whole.

 

Frank might have been under a tremendous deal of pressure at the busiest time of the year while trying to organize an event mostly by himself (without much help due to the lack of volunteers).  Is it a crime for him to suggest that others actually take some responsibility if they want action on a topic?  I agree that he should not have used names since many are thin skinned, but suggesting that others actually volunteer some time and organize something is exactly what I want the president of my organization to do.  I see nothing wrong with that.  If he (and/or the board) felt that it was in poor taste to have the organization's name tied to a rally immediately following a murder, then I would hope that he would decline attaching OUR group name to such a rally.

 

 

In case it matters to you, the other group has been made private. It is no longer accessible by the general public. 

[kwadz 11]

In case it matters to you, the other group has been made private. It is no longer accessible by the general public. 

 

Good...thanks for the update.  Was our (copyrighted) name removed from it, as well?

[A-Tech 8]

Good...thanks for the update. Was our (copyrighted) name removed from it, as well?

I'm giving up on you

[kwadz 11]

I'm giving up on you

 

You lost me on that one...I'm confused as to what I said that was wrong...I was being sincere, but apparently that was lost in electronic translation.

[A-Tech 8]

You lost me on that one...I'm confused as to what I said that was wrong...I was being sincere, but apparently that was lost in electronic translation.

Because there was no copyright infringement. You're just regurgitating everything being said from Facebook. Just because the name is part of the title on a Facebook group, doesn't mean it's illegal. Since it was not an organization and merely a group uniting those banned by NJ2AS, there's nothing wrong with it.

[kwadz 11]

Because there was no copyright infringement. You're just regurgitating everything being said from Facebook. Just because the name is part of the title on a Facebook group, doesn't mean it's illegal. Since it was not an organization and merely a group uniting those banned by NJ2AS, there's nothing wrong with it.

 

Honestly, I have not seen the Facebook posts (other than what was re-posted on here by, I think, Ryan) because I do not have access where I am right now, so, no, I'm not regurgitating anything from Facebook.  Is it legal to use a copyrighted name of an organization as part of the name of a new group/organization?  I would think that constitutes infringement, but maybe it doesn't.  If it is used in a negative way and members of the group are pulled in involuntarily, as happens on Facebook with groups frequently, I would think at the very least there might be a case of libel, especially since, from what I understand, some of the members that were added to the group involuntarily and the purpose of the group was to cause damage to the NJ2AS organization.  IANAL, but it appears that way to me...

 

 

The elements of a defamation suit; whether slander or libel, are:

1. A defamatory statement;

2. Published to a third party;

3. Which the speaker knew or should have known was false;

4. That causes injury to the subject of the communication

- See more at: http://defamation.laws.com/defamation-laws/libel-vs-slander#sthash.wwE3ymGy.dpuf

[Wojo 98]

Don't worry, FF is back. Sailor's Promise...I'm out.

[mipafox 438]

I'm giving up on you

I'm not giving up on any of us.

[intercooler 41]

This post is the poster child of my thread from last week. It isn't about anything but egos...

[A-Tech 8]

I'm not giving up on any of us.

Thank god for you, sir. I've just gotten tired of trying to explain why this all happened. It seems that too many people saw the aftermath and nobody saw the cause.

[mipafox 438]

Thank god for you, sir. I've just gotten tired of trying to explain why this all happened. It seems that too many people saw the aftermath and nobody saw the cause.

What are you going to do to fix it?

[A-Tech 8]

What are you going to do to fix it?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I don't have time to go my own laundry, let alone effectively do anything for the organization. But is it wrong to try and set the record straight? Or should we all just blindly go about business?

[Wojo 98]

Yes Nick that is how he treated several members. They shared screen shots and to say it was unprofessional would be an understatement.

[mipafox 438]

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I don't have time to go my own laundry, let alone effectively do anything for the organization. But is it wrong to try and set the record straight? Or should we all just blindly go about business?

OK, so you are on some sort of mission here, to set the record straight, but promise to do absolutely nothing for RKBA?

 

That's better than blindly going about your business, how? You have sworn to do nothing positive, but feel a sense of obligation to do something personal and negative.

[checko 180]

To throw my .02 into the ring here, I get why people are so bent out of shape by this guy, but what point does this just become a lynch mob?  The guy is stepping down, the organization is a mess, continuing to stew in personal grudges does nothing to further its cause, new memberships are going to plummet, etc...

 

Get where this is going?  Straighten your shit out, refocus on the goal, and dont make this a vendetta about one guy or its all toast. 

 

IMO of course

[Wojo 98]

He took back his resignation.

[checko 180]

He took back his resignation.

 

 Well I'm sure this will end quickly then

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

Guys. Frank should never had resigned in the first place. I understand why he did it. It's hard to keep doing something when your constantly being told your not making the right decision. We have to stand behind our leadership. We went through this same sort of thing when we first started. We have to stay united no matter what and realize that we are all human beings no matter what working towards the same goal. Let's please move past this as it does no good for anyone

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mipafox 438]

He took back his resignation.

Good. So, what now? Bash him until he resigns again? Or tell him we appreciate his work as more than everything everybody else here combined has done and want to support him and move forward from this mess and improve the organization?

[O-gre 7]

Sadly I have been on the receiving end of one of his rants. He was rather quick to attack and slow to apologize once he realized he was wrong. The effort doesn't need someone who can blow a fuse so quickly. It needs a level head to go against a machine. If two groups come out of it even better! The mission should have been to find the most qualified and polished person FIRST. Frank would have been perfect BEHIND THE SCENES!