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brocglock23

Time to start a new gun group in NJ???

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If it was a few outsiders causing trouble, half the executive leadership team would not have quit tonight.  Many of those outsiders were once insiders. I guess there are  even more outsiders now.  

 

This is pretty accurate.

 

Matty, you have NO idea what you are talking about. If you don't have a clue or even 10% of the information, perhaps you should reserve judgement. Or, look like an ass because your opinions are based on emotions versus ANY facts.

 

His closest and longest allies leave. NOT because of a few of us voicing our concerns for his leadership, but because the man has lost touch and is a DANGER and LIABILITY to the cause moving forward.

 

Another group is already pretty far down the road with By-Laws in legal review, domains registered and other important bedrock policies that ought to be in place to START a NFP. FJF several years down the road still doesn't want them because he wants absolute CONTROL. Tyranny.

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OK, but IMHO having an Internet hissy fit, whichever side a person might be on, is childish and counterproductive. Maybe that's the way people normally behave on facebook, I don't know.  But things just got real again with the annual re-filing of all the failed bills from last year, which will be done every year until they are rammed thru. Whoever is running that page--which you and others on here at least have said you were listed on as a supporter, even though you are not---is in actual deed harming the cause, and helping the Forces of Evil (yes they are Evil) that are against us in NJ.

Matt, I know you're not a Facebook guy so you can't go check for yourself, but I have to disagree.

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As I said, I don't do facebook because of these types of silly things, so I only know what I read in the funny papers. If there is another group that is sprouting out of this asinine drama, then that's EXACTLY the response which would be productive. What is this new group and how can one get in contact with them?

 

 

 


 

Another group is already pretty far down the road with By-Laws in legal review, domains registered and other important bedrock policies that ought to be in place to START a NFP. FJF several years down the road still doesn't want them because he wants absolute CONTROL. Tyranny.

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The NJ2AS is not going anywhere. As one of the original 10 founders I was always against any Bylaws from the beginning until we are positive there are others out there who could take over and the organization not crumble. It is still not there yet. I wish this new group the best of luck. I really do. But being a new group and just bashing the old one does nothing to support the cause. If this continues and both groups fail, would it have been worth it? So I would have a serious talk with your new group about what's going on if they are serious at all about changing nj gun rights. We don't need fighting between groups. So tell them to form up and get out there and fight!

 

 

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Wow, we are doomed. The libs are gonna crush us with these new bills unless everyone works together. If there is a new group great, we can hit them from two fronts. But all the groups must coordinate and work together. I just joined NJ2AS  a few months ago and hope it can pull through. If not so be it, but the infighting needs to stop. 

 

About bylaws, I have been in many groups and I have never been in one that has no rules. That concerns me greatly. Honestly if I had known about the lack of bylaws I probably would not have joined NJ2AS. Every organization must have some kind of rule structure. How can we fight to protect the Second Amendment (which is basically a rule) when we have no rules ourselves. A group is about it's members, if only the original 10 make the rules than that stymies growth. Collaboration is the key to growth, not dictatorship.

 

I hope we can get it together, because with all these new laws coming, my only hope may be to cross the river to free America. Remember we reap what we sow.

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Bignic

 

I appreciate your concern. I really do. Most of the original founders are not active on the board. Myself included. I was working 7 days a week when hurricane sandy hit and 2 of my children had health issues we had to deal with taking up my time. The other original founders that are no longer as active have their own reasons. I will check about the Bylaws. I think they were written but never put into effect. Imagine if we did have the Bylaws and a year after we first started had an election and someone got voted in that either couldn't put the time in or only really cared to get the title. I don't think anyone in this state could afford to have that happen. I am going to try to get down to the meeting in Winslow and i will speak to anyone who has any questions about the NJ2AS or what we stand for.

 

Thanks bignic for becoming a member. Remember we all what the same thing at the end if the day

 

 

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Tom, believe me I appreciate all that everyone associated with NJ2AS has done. And I understand about family commitments.  But not having By-Laws is basically the same as not having a Second Amendment. They are meant to protect the many from the few. We are fighting NJ politicians (The Few) that are trying to push their agenda on us (The many). Same thing with a group like NJ2AS. The body needs a voice in decisions. Y

 

You said " Most of the original founders are not active on the board." So who is active on the board?

 

You also said "Imagine if we did have the By-Laws and a year after we first started had an election and someone got voted in that either couldn't put the time in or only really cared to get the title." If you have By-Laws and elections, you usually you can weed out the bullshit artists from the elections by majority vote. I don't think this scenario is much different now. Do you feel that the current situation could have been avoided with By-Laws? I do.

 

Look, I am the new guy. My voice is new and untested, I understand that, but if changes don't happen quickly, NJ2AS appears to be doomed. How many new members do you think we have lost from new NJGF members that have read this and the Facebook posts and said "wow, I am not going to get involved in this mess." For the good of the group, if you do have By-Laws post them and poll all of the members. Get the body's thoughts. You never know it may help.

 

Unfortunately, I will be in Florida on business at the next meeting which is at my home range. I do plan to attend the next meeting after that and introduce myself and offer whatever help I can.

 

Good luck, these are truly make or break times for NJ2AS. And thank you for helping start NJ2AS.

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Just got this e-mail from the "banned" Facebook group. I don't know anymore than you do:

 

WOW !!!! Latest news is that no less then 4 to 5 members of the " Leadership Team" have resigned within the last hour. They developed and put forward a very well thought out proposal to stop the losses, get back on track and still have Frank in a participatory role. Apparently Frank still refuses to accept any level of responsibility, blames it all on snapping due to being overworked and under helped, see's no need for him to step aside and, since there were no official bylaws in place, there really was no mechanism available to force the change. So, in light of the news today of the deluge of Anti Gun laws poised for the NJ Legislature this session , many even worse then those proposed last year, the Leader of the " Premier GrassRoots Org in the State has seen fit to put his ego ahead of the needs and RIGHTS of the membership of his club and the Citizens of the State of NJ

 

Is this all true?

 

I'd hate to see NJ2AS go belly up, I've seen lot's of 2A groups come and go over the past 10 years or so, hate to see another one close it's doors, especially now, since all the anti gun bills got posted this week. 

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Just an update. There is a new group forming and have the support of many current and former leaders of FJF''S group. Dots are being connected, resources tapped and people are stepping up. Give this new group a little time to get BY-LAWS, Leadership positions and Responsibilities, Area Managers and a Mission Statement in place before going public. You will see a lot of the same faces and ideas just absent FJF.

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Just an update. There is a new group forming and have the support of many current and former leaders of FJF''S group. Dots are being connected, resources tapped and people are stepping up. Give this new group a little time to get BY-LAWS, Leadership positions and Responsibilities, Area Managers and a Mission Statement in place before going public. You will see a lot of the same faces and ideas just absent FJF.

Coming from?

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I think any group that is going to fight for rights in NJ is welcome here. I wish any group the best of luck as it is not easy to get a group off the ground. But the more groups the better so good luck!

 

 

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After reading some of the extremely rude emails Frank sent to members who had the audacity to voice an opinion, I am done w. the NJ2AS.  I will be joining the new group. 

 

Just an update. There is a new group forming and have the support of many current and former leaders of FJF''S group. Dots are being connected, resources tapped and people are stepping up. Give this new group a little time to get BY-LAWS, Leadership positions and Responsibilities, Area Managers and a Mission Statement in place before going public. You will see a lot of the same faces and ideas just absent FJF.

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Coming from?

Existing 2A supporters, volunteers and people that have left FJF's totalitarian leadership. 

 

Imagine a focus or an out reach committee specifically towards women? He shut that down.

How about a group to work with minorities? He had no interest either as I  understand it.

 

These two groups could have a huge impact on getting the work out. And, many of these people tend to be democrats. We need this to be a two party push. Not just coddling up to the GOP.

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We need this to be a two party push. Not just coddling up to the GOP.

 

this is what rubbed me wrong......for so long, the facebook page was filled with nothing but GOP coddling, and not even gun related stuff.  this is a biggest problem I find with ANJRPC and NJ2AS, .......make a 2A group identify as 'conservative' in NJ, and you might as well close up shop.  Legislature ain't gonna listen to you, and the typical man/woman on the street won't either.

 

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Just an update. There is a new group forming and have the support of many current and former leaders of FJF''S group. Dots are being connected, resources tapped and people are stepping up. Give this new group a little time to get BY-LAWS, Leadership positions and Responsibilities, Area Managers and a Mission Statement in place before going public. You will see a lot of the same faces and ideas just absent FJF.

 

If there is a new group coming, I hope it doesn't focus exclusively on CCW.  My impression currently is that NJ2AS focuses CCW to damn much, and we just got a list of new anti gun bills which need our attention.  But these are just my thoughts.

 

Also, this new group, I really hope it considers county or regional coordinators to run grass roots stuff like flyers and newsletters at gun shops and gun ranges.

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Unfortunately I think their main issue is CCW from what I have seen. I could be wrong. Like we have said from the beginning, let the big dogs handle the bigger issues. We always wanted to start from the bottom up and I think we should continue that.

 

 

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...

 

Imagine a focus or an out reach committee specifically towards women? He shut that down.

How about a group to work with minorities? He had no interest either as I  understand it.

 

...

 

 

I'm a relatively new member so I don't know what's occurred in the past, but I can tell you that outreach toward women and minorities were specific topics during a recent membership committee call that I participated in. 

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Unfortunately I think their main issue is CCW from what I have seen. I could be wrong. Like we have said from the beginning, let the big dogs handle the bigger issues. We always wanted to start from the bottom up and I think we should continue that.

 

 

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NJ2AS has not focused on ccw at all in the past.  After last month's membership meeting in Toms River, about 60 people showed up.  Frank announced that they were not going to tackle ccw "at this time".  That had been his position on the facebook page for months prior to the meeting.  The vast majority in the room was very vocal that they wanted to tackle ccw (including me).  The meeting definately went off the planned agenda at that point as the leadership tried to get the meeting back to whatever the agenda was supposed to be. 

 

After that meeting, NJ2AS announced project CLASP but never promoted it, never sent emails to members, never explained any sort of real plan.  I would say that ccw is NOT a priority for NJ2AS.

I also do not think ccw will be a priority of the new group. Some involved want ccw but it has not come up as THE goal of the group.

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I also do not think ccw will be a priority of the new group. Some involved want ccw but it has not come up as THE goal of the group.

I concur. First things first. IMHO CCW is not the highest priority at this point. It's fighting all these addl draconian gun laws... specifically:

 

  1. Increased magazine capacity limits (#1)
  2. Additional "registration" requirements (that may lead to easier confiscation or denial of ownership use);
  3. Adding additional weapons to the "assault weapons" list that have no business being there;

 

etc,

 

I think these have a much more critical impact on the avg. gun owner/2A supporter than being able to carry in public, open or concealed.

 

I'm not saying to forget about CCW... I'm just saying, "First things First."

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My...key word, MY perspective on this is. Of course work on all the stupid anti / feel good legislation. Leave the 15 round as a bargaining chip.Repeal the stupid bayo-lug, flash hider crap that does nothing. Get rid of OGM. Work both sides of the aisle for Stand Your Ground laws in the privacy of your own home. SYG is the stepping stone to CCW. Plus, with all the cases pending for CCW on the Federal level, most of the ground work can already be in motion. IF, the Fed's side in our favor, then it will be a matter of pulling the ear of NJ State House to comply with Federal Laws.

 

Most are not aware, but the NRA is a single issue organization. When the NRA used to give an A rating to Reid it drove people nuts. He used to be an A rating because he never allowed any anti gun legislation to advance to the floor while he was in control. Now, he is a traitor and lost the NRA's support.

 

We need to be a single issue party to succeed. The NJ GOP hasn't exactly been pro-active to help us. Yes we have a few good supporters, but we need more on BOTH sides of the aisle to succeed.

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I tell you what, either or both of these organizations need to get their crap together FAST, we have fights to fight and that doesn't include the one we are having with ourselves.

 

In case the "leadership", whoever they are, have no noticed every awful bill has been reintroduced, and how much you want to bet they want to push it quietly and fast?

 

Let me know how I can help, but get the hell on it. I'm all for slow deliberate well planned moves, but only when the time allows it.

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Just an update. There is a new group forming and have the support of many current and former leaders of FJF''S group. Dots are being connected, resources tapped and people are stepping up. Give this new group a little time to get BY-LAWS, Leadership positions and Responsibilities, Area Managers and a Mission Statement in place before going public. You will see a lot of the same faces and ideas just absent FJF.

Who is the new group? Why all the secrecy. Maybe more people can help, but there is no information. I like the fact of Regions. I think that works best in a large group. But lack of info is not helping your cause. I will help any group that will stand up against these ridiculous laws. I am also pushing for CCW in Jersey, but first things first. We definitely need to work both parties.

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I was until recently of the mind that CCW in NJ was a waste of time, but now with Wi and IL and the most recent court win against LA Co, I have come to think that CCW will be an easier to get to win in the courts, and in the public mind, as it requires a permitting and training (in most places) process. OTOH, states that have had AWB have only made them worse (CT,CA, NY) as time goes on. IMHO no politician in NJ will vote to reduce/repeal the AWB, and I doubt that courts will get involved favorably on the issue of Scary Guns

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