Time to start a new gun group in NJ???

[bignic83 0]

I was until recently of the mind that CCW in NJ was a waste of time, but now with Wi and IL and the most recent court win against LA Co, I have come to think that CCW will be an easier to get to win in the courts, and in the public mind, as it requires a permitting and training (in most places) process. OTOH, states that have had AWB have only made them worse (CT,CA, NY) as time goes on. IMHO no politician in NJ will vote to reduce/repeal the AWB, and I doubt that courts will get involved favorably on the issue of Scary Guns

What he said!

[Fred2 367]

I think we should fight for everything at once, with all the tools available to us.

 

The best defense is a good offense.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

 IMHO no politician in NJ will vote to reduce/repeal the AWB, and I doubt that courts will get involved favorably on the issue of Scary Guns

 

 

What he said!

 

This is all very true.  I'm hoping, at this point, that we don't lose any more ground and hold on to what we have ( eg. 15 rnd mags, etc.).  If we give up any more, they'll eventually come after it all. We need to fight to hold our ground now, and not give any back., Then we can try to gain ground with things like carrying.  Carrying is something we never really had. But things we do have (and have had) are now at risk of being taken away. We can't allow that.

 

First things first.

[anactivegrenade 25]

Sooooooo... what happens now?

[maintenanceguy 510]

I think we should fight for everything at once, with all the tools available to us.

 

The best defense is a good offense.

 

Agree with both points.

 

We need an organization that is designed from the beginning to delegate the management of projects to those who are passionate about one aspect of the fight.

 

And as long as we continue to only play defense, we might win 99% of the time and we will still loose because all we managed to do is slow down the victories of the other side.

[Wojo 98]

Out of all the key board commandos chiming in, how many of you have been to Trenton or DC to attend a pro 2 rally? How many have sent more then 10 emails or 10 phone calls in the last 12 months to elected representatives?

 

If not you, then who?

 

I saw a great sign at a Recreation Baseball Field last year that read, Before you complain, do you volunteer?

 

We NEED everyone to be involved in an active way. A huge part of the personal issues FJF dealt with is the lack of volunteers. His downfall was how he treated volunteers.

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

Exactly the problems any organization sees. You will have a lot of people say they will do something but never do. It's not easy. I wish any new organization the best of luck. Everything sounds good and everyone is

motivated with something new but that does down quite fast.

 

 

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[Fred2 367]

This is all very true.  I'm hoping, at this point, that we don't lose any more ground and hold on to what we have ( eg. 15 rnd mags, etc.).  If we give up any more, they'll eventually come after it all. We need to fight to hold our ground now, and not give any back., Then we can try to gain ground with things like carrying.  Carrying is something we never really had. But things we do have (and have had) are now at risk of being taken away. We can't allow that.

 

First things first.

 

Actually we were able to carry up until the beginning of the 1930's

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/the-secret-history-of-guns/308608/3/

 

There are some that argue that since we have been without the right since then, it is OK to continue to deny it.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

Actually we were able to carry up until the beginning of the 1930's

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/the-secret-history-of-guns/308608/3/

 

There are some that argue that since we have been without the right since then, it is OK to continue to deny it.

 

Fair enough.... Again, I'm not saying we should not pursue the right to carry or any other 2A rights. I'm just saying that there are more critical and immediate things of concern... things introduced in that recent swath of legislation that, if passed, would take away even more of the few rights etc. we currently *do* have.  We can't afford to lose any more. 

 

Out of all the key board commandos chiming in, how many of you have been to Trenton or DC to attend a pro 2 rally? How many have sent more then 10 emails or 10 phone calls in the last 12 months to elected representatives?

 

If not you, then who?

 

I saw a great sign at a Recreation Baseball Field last year that read, Before you complain, do you volunteer?

 

We NEED everyone to be involved in an active way. A huge part of the personal issues FJF dealt with is the lack of volunteers. His downfall was how he treated volunteers.

 

I'm more than happy to do what I can. Of course, we all have to make a living and have time restrictions, and so do I. But I can certainly email / phone our legislators, or talk with people I meet (especially antis with questions) and be the right kind of "brand ambassador" for our avocation... one the antis/MSM can't screw with or spin as "crazy/idiotic/buffoonish." I can take people to my range and let them see what it's like to use a weapon in a safe environment. I can contribute some $$$ when I have them.  Depending on where this new organization decides to hold its meetings, I may be able to attend them (the further north, the better - NJ2AS does/did seem to be a bit "southern NJ" centric). 

 

Hopefully, once this new organization takes shape, there will be some "directives" published as to where the avg. volunteer like myself can put their efforts to best use... to help in forming a "united front..." something we desperately need.

[bignic83 0]

"Hopefully, once this new organization takes shape, there will be some "directives" published as to where the avg. volunteer like myself can put their efforts to best use... to help in forming a "united front..." something we desperately need."

/\ This!/\ I will help as much as possible, just need to see that this will be an organization, not just a bunch of like minded guys. The Anti's are very organized. Let me know, I would love to help down here in the south.

[pjd832 146]

The Anti's are very organized

I honestly think their organization isn't really that "great" and actually ours is better in most ways....... Theirs is just better accepted/used by the media/politicians/agenda driven megalomaniacs......like the "moms against common sense"... Or the heeding gods call guy...there could be 300 pro gun people outside and 100 on the list to speak at the hearings I've attended...but we get cut off and downplayed in the media ..while the gods call guy gets FaceTime on camera and puff pieces in the news and extra mic time uninterrupted ......it's thought to win the game when the umpire is on the take...

[matty 810]

I was in Trenton last Feb & then the 2nd round in march or April or whenever that was, sent letters, emails and faxes to all my local NJ reps, Sweeney, Norcross, Cryan, Weinberg, Assembly & Senate majority offices, NJ GOP, NJ Democrats OC GOP. And governor Christies office, all repeatedly, probably at least 100+times from Feb thru to the point when Chrsitie finally vetoed the worst of it.  I spoke on the phone with two of my local reps, them actually, not a staffer, and the Gov's office (staffer the dozen times I called) . Staffers at Weinberg's office and Sweeneys as well. This doesn't count the emails & faxes & phone calls and letters to my US Rep and Senators a. Not to mention the money I have contributed to NJ2AS, ANJRPC, NYSRPA, NRA, 2AF, all more in excess of  required membership. So BTDT. You?

 

Can you please clarify your statement above about 15 round magazines being a bargaining chip? Is that an official policy of the new organization?

Out of all the key board commandos chiming in, how many of you have been to Trenton or DC to attend a pro 2 rally? How many have sent more then 10 emails or 10 phone calls in the last 12 months to elected representatives?

If not you, then who?

I saw a great sign at a Recreation Baseball Field last year that read, Before you complain, do you volunteer?

We NEED everyone to be involved in an active way. A huge part of the personal issues FJF dealt with is the lack of volunteers. His downfall was how he treated volunteers.

[W2MC 1,699]

[pjd832 146]

 Can you please clarify your statement above about 15 round magazines being a bargaining chip? Is that an official policy of the new organization?

Why does anyone but criminals and the military really need 15 rounds?...we need to make reasonable concessions after all isn't it all for our own good?... Let's not forget..."for the children"

[intercooler 41]

Out of all the key board commandos chiming in, how many of you have been to Trenton or DC to attend a pro 2 rally? How many have sent more then 10 emails or 10 phone calls in the last 12 months to elected representatives?

 

If not you, then who?

 

I saw a great sign at a Recreation Baseball Field last year that read, Before you complain, do you volunteer?

 

We NEED everyone to be involved in an active way. A huge part of the personal issues FJF dealt with is the lack of volunteers. His downfall was how he treated volunteers.

 

I made a personal mission to PERSONALLY see my reps, and call the ones i could NOT see including the senate president.  I also PAID for the NJ2AS to come have a booth at our town day. We had a good time too, they signed up  people, sold shirts and it was alot of fun. Not a single person went away unhappy or disappointed. I hope we can do it this year, and I am in the position to to make it happen. Grassroots starts with these events, not the internet. So whatever pro 2a organization wants to come, pm me and I will make the arrangements and take care of the spot for them. Mark you calender for Saturday July 12 for Franklin Day

Nick

[Fred2 367]

I made a personal mission to PERSONALLY see my reps, and call the ones i could NOT see including the senate president.  I also PAID for the NJ2AS to come have a booth at our town day. We had a good time too, they signed up  people, sold shirts and it was alot of fun. Not a single person went away unhappy or disappointed. I hope we can do it this year, and I am in the position to to make it happen. Grassroots starts with these events, not the internet. So whatever pro 2a organization wants to come, pm me and I will make the arrangements and take care of the spot for them. Mark you calender for Saturday July 12 for Franklin Day

Nick

 

 

"I also PAID for the NJ2AS to come have a booth at our town day"

 

 

good job!!!!!

The Blue Wave was at ours getting people to sign for gun control.

I see no reason why we should be be able to do the same.

[intercooler 41]

This is what any group needs to do, go to the town days, put a good face out. Engage and talk to everyday folks, it takes the "gun nut" out of the equation. Anjrpc was also at the event and I know a few people who signed up for the Club afterwards..and more than a few who are now an NRA member. It's not easy to change hearts and minds without doing stuff like this. Everytown, county and area has town celebration days or fairs in NJ, why are we going to PA gunshows when we can be doing this? 

[maintenanceguy 510]

Make concessions?

 

 

I already have. mag limits,  FID cards, P2Ps, permit delays, right to carry, short barrel rifles, automatic rifles, sound suppressors, assault weapons, and literally hundreds of others.  

 

I'm ready to be able to keep and bear my arms without infringement.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

Actually we were able to carry up until the beginning of the 1930's

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/the-secret-history-of-guns/308608/3/

 

There are some that argue that since we have been without the right since then, it is OK to continue to deny it.

 

interesting thing about the 'original' black panther guys, they now embrace gun control........

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

We NEED everyone to be involved in an active way. A huge part of the personal issues FJF dealt with is the lack of volunteers.

 

How is this new group plan on dealing with lack of volunteers?  Lack of support, and volunteers is what killed a number of NJ 2A org's.........

[Knuckle Sandwich 5]

How is this new group plan on dealing with lack of volunteers?  Lack of support, and volunteers is what killed a number of NJ 2A org's.........

 

I'm waiting to hear about this as well. Certainly this should be any new org's primary concern if it plans to stay around more than a few years. I know what it is like to see a passionate bunch get demoralized once the reality sets in about who is (not) willing to step up when called upon.

[gleninjersey 2,139]

How is this new group plan on dealing with lack of volunteers?  Lack of support, and volunteers is what killed a number of NJ 2A org's.........

 

I would suggest "regional" groups that flow up to a head group.  I'm newer around here but seems most of the meetings took place in South Jersey.  Need meetings taking place ALL OVER where you have more people showing up and being active. 

 

I may not drive 45 - an hour away for a meeting but I think many wouldn't mind driving 15-20 minutes.  Need to decentralize, increase members, drive the message out and increase active members.

[jonfoxx 4]

How is this new group plan on dealing with lack of volunteers?  Lack of support, and volunteers is what killed a number of NJ 2A org's.........

 

As a NJ2AS member (renewal pending), I have never felt that anyone other than those at the "top" were empowered to do any such thing...  I have had email requests for voulenteers for gun shows where I replied when I would be available, and no response...  yet there's claims of lack of support. 

 

I think the town-day booths are a GREAT idea, but why is this the first time tha I've heard about it????   I personally took the effort to make my own flyer about last years Trenton rally's and local travel arrangements and put them out in local firearm stores but I never felt like I was acting in accord with the  "group"  because there was no directive to do so... it just seemed like a no-brainer to me...  I suggested "regional" sub-groups and was told, "its coming, its coming"... well, where the hell are they?  

 

And just a final note... I joined NJ2AS becuase of 2 things.  1.  They were being VERY effective with the local city/townships adding things to the FID process and they were another force to deal with at the state hearings of all of the new gun bills.  2.  They filled a statewide void where the NRA lacked communication on the actions that were being taken to fight the new laws that were being proposed. 

 

But when all of the hearings were over and I all ever heard was CCW, CCW, CCW, CCW, CCW...  after we just had our asses handed to us, well, I should have known what was coming.  Shame on me...

 

I really hope that I'm wrong about all of this and they get it together and make it work... I'd rather stand up and say that I was wrong all along and a complete ass than have to face the fact that this was a complete sham from the very beginning and many of us fell into it without seeing all of the signs.

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

The NJ2AS had meetings in northern, central and southern nj. They rotated monthly. The problem will again to get people who put the time in. You will get a lot of people that want to be your regional or sectional leaders but you will find that it goes ok where.

 

 

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[maintenanceguy 510]

I would suggest "regional" groups that flow up to a head group.  I'm newer around here but seems most of the meetings took place in South Jersey. 

 

 

Funny how we all have a different idea of where the north/south line is.  I always felt that I had to drive too far north for the meetings.

[maintenanceguy 510]

NJ2AS was very good at getting numbers to Trenton last year.  Not good at getting people into projects.     I'm curious about what to expect from NJ2AS this year in Trenton.  NJ2AS is wounded and struggling.  There has been very little talk of this year's bills.

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

I'm never exactly sure where the lines are either. Haha. I just figured Belleville for north, toms river for central, and Winslow for the south.

 

 

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[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

And just a final note... I joined NJ2AS becuase of 2 things.  1.  They were being VERY effective with the local city/townships adding things to the FID process and they were another force to deal with at the state hearings of all of the new gun bills.  2.  They filled a statewide void where the NRA lacked communication on the actions that were being taken to fight the new laws that were being proposed. 

 

But when all of the hearings were over and I all ever heard was CCW, CCW, CCW, CCW, CCW...  after we just had our asses handed to us, well, I should have known what was coming.  Shame on me...

 

I was extremely hesitant to support, or join NJ2AS because I've seen other 2A groups in NJ come and go belly up due to infighting, lack of support, lack of money, lack of people willing to volunteer.  I too join, last March, because of the positive change that they did do regarding the FID process, and organizing the rally's in Trenton.

 

But to see this current tinkling contest is depressing.  The haters just dumped a new pile of $hit on us, and there's this mess to clean up.  People might point and laugh about the rivalry between Bloomberg/MAIG and The Brady Campaign, but that is turning into a mirror reflection of us.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

NJ2AS was very good at getting numbers to Trenton last year.  Not good at getting people into projects.     I'm curious about what to expect from NJ2AS this year in Trenton.  NJ2AS is wounded and struggling.  There has been very little talk of this year's bills.

 

I don't think NJ2AS is gonna support rallies in Trenton anymore due to the fact that we as a community are ignored, and run rough shod over.......there was gonna be a BIG rally late this past Spring, but I recall Frank canceling it since none of our efforts did a damn bit of good.  Every one of those bills sailed straight through committee's, floor votes, and Christie's signature.

 

But I do feel NJ2AS should still try and organize trips to Trenton for the bill hearings. 

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

I was extremely hesitant to support, or join NJ2AS because I've seen other 2A groups in NJ come and go belly up due to infighting, lack of support, lack of money, lack of people willing to volunteer. I too join, last March, because of the positive change that they did do regarding the FID process, and organizing the rally's in Trenton.

 

But to see this current tinkling contest is depressing. The haters just dumped a new pile of $hit on us, and there's this mess to clean up. People might point and laugh about the rivalry between Bloomberg/MAIG and The Brady Campaign, but that is turning into a mirror reflection of us.

Hang in there. It will be rectified. We will continue the fight in NJ!

 

 

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