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KyLu II

Are all handguns purchased in NJ registered?

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Anybody that owns firearms and moves to NJ is in the only class of people I think are too stupid or irresponsible to own guns in the first place.

 

Can you have both PA and NJ IDs? I'm guessing buying in PA with an ID that doesn't 100% check out will land you in hot water.

Comes up over and over again, search it please for some more in-depth discussion. According to ATF, if you own (possess?) property in more than one state, you can consider yourself a resident of the state you are in while you are residing there, even if it is only for a day. There is no "one state or the other" in the eyes of the ATF.

 

However, some FFLs won't want to bother with you, and also do your homework and figure out if you actually reside in more than one state or not. This is not the kind of thing you try to manufacture as an excuse after you get busted for felonies.

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Anybody that owns firearms and moves to NJ is in the only class of people I think are too stupid or irresponsible to own guns in the first place.

 

Comes up over and over again, search it please for some more in-depth discussion. According to ATF, if you own (possess?) property a residence in more than one state, you can consider yourself a resident of the state you are in while you are residing there, even if it is only for a day. There is no "one state or the other" in the eyes of the ATF.

 

However, some FFLs won't want to bother with you, and also do your homework and figure out if you actually reside in more than one state or not. This is not the kind of thing you try to manufacture as an excuse after you get busted for felonies.

Owning land does not make you a dual resident, you must have a home in both locations.

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Some have asked questions on dual residency in other forums. Among them was how does one get two different drivers licenses. One answer was that you don't, you have one state with a drivers license and get a state ID for the other one. I am not saying this is 100% legal and it is the answer. I am merely passing on what I read elsewhere. And since that suggestion may not be entirely correct, consult a legal professional for guidance and clarification.

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Some have asked questions on dual residency in other forums. Among them was how does one get two different drivers licenses. One answer was that you don't, you have one state with a drivers license and get a state ID for the other one. I am not saying this is 100% legal and it is the answer. I am merely passing on what I read elsewhere. And since that suggestion may not be entirely correct, consult a legal professional for guidance and clarification.

 

I don't think that would work well at all given that, in most states, the "driver's license" and the "State ID" are issued by the same agency/authority. In my state, the "NJ Motor Vehicle Commission." Same database, same verification, etc. etc. Only one also confers the privilege of driving a certain class(es) of vehicle(s).

 

Furthermore, when moving to a different state and re-establishing a "primary domicile,"  I have always had to turn in the license of my old state for the new one, in lieu of taking the "road test" in the new state. I'm thinking that any State worth its salt would ask if you have that kind of ID from another State and ask you to turn it in as well. Although you can own property in many states, you can only have one "primary domicile" (where you live physically more than 183 days per year, Where you vote, where you're taxed as a "resident," where your driver's license/state ID originates, where your cars are "registered"...etc. etc.).

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Owning land does not make you a dual resident, you must have a home in both locations.

You made an oversight of similar magnitude. There is no such thing as "dual resident." You can be a resident in several states as far as ATF is concerned.

 

 

I don't think that would work well at all given that, in most states, the "driver's license" and the "State ID" are issued by the same agency/authority. In my state, the "NJ Motor Vehicle Commission." Same database, same verification, etc. etc. Only one also confers the privilege of driving a certain class(es) of vehicle(s).

 

Furthermore, when moving to a different state and re-establishing a "primary domicile,"  I have always had to turn in the license of my old state for the new one, in lieu of taking the "road test" in the new state. I'm thinking that any State worth its salt would ask if you have that kind of ID from another State and ask you to turn it in as well. Although you can own property in many states, you can only have one "primary domicile" (where you live physically more than 183 days per year, Where you vote, where you're taxed as a "resident," where your driver's license/state ID originates, where your cars are "registered"...etc. etc.).

ATF does not require FFLs to see a state ID issued by the state you are in to purchase as a resident of that state. They require the FFL to verify ID and residency - these are separate requirements. For instance, if you have an NJ DL, but have a residence in PA, you can buy guns as a PA resident in PA while you are residing in PA and have no need for a PA ID to get the job done. Your NJ ID is just fine, if you can prove PA residency to the satisfaction of the FFL.

 

As I said before, some FFLs probably aren't going to want to deal with this. The simple fact that you have an NJ ID (versus, WV or DE let's say) is going to put them on alert right off the bat.

 

Further, I don't have personal experience. So it wouldn't surprise me to learn I made some other minor oversight. Need to figure it out for yourself if you plan to do it.

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ATF does not require FFLs to see a state ID issued by the state you are in to purchase as a resident of that state. They require the FFL to verify ID and residency - these are separate requirements. For instance, if you have an NJ DL, but have a residence in PA, you can buy guns as a PA resident in PA while you are residing in PA and have no need for a PA ID to get the job done. Your NJ ID is just fine, if you can prove PA residency to the satisfaction of the FFL.

Understood, but I wasn't commenting on that. I was responding to whether or not it is possible for a person to maintain multiple "primary domiciles" by possessing two or more separate State IDs legally, at one time. I haven't seen where that's at all possible, without the authorities eventually catching up to it.

 

As I said before, some FFLs probably aren't going to want to deal with this. The simple fact that you have an NJ ID (versus, WV or DE let's say) is going to put them on alert right off the bat.

Very true. And I have suffered from this problem in PA, of all places.

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The word "registry" means different things in different contexts. The state (NJ and PA) consider a registry as an all-encompassing list of firearms correlated to owners. Which is how they dance around the issue of whether they have a registry. No, they don't - there is no all-encompassing list. However, if you purchase a handgun, again, in either state there will be a record of that firearm correlated to your name as the owner.

 

There was a court case about this in PA  because they have a handgun registry form you fill out when you purchase a handgun. Firearm registries are not allowed, by federal law, but the court ruled that since the form was only a record of sale, and since the registry was not all-encompassing (i.e. just as in NJ, people bringing guns with them when they move, guns purchased before the registry was in effect, or inherited firearms) it was not prohibited. I'm sure NJ reasons the same way.

 

The problem often encountered in PA is that if you are stopped and legally carrying a handgun, the police may (illegally - but that's another issue - let's pretend they had RAS) "run the serial number". Often times it will not come back to the person being detained because it "isn't registered to that person". Said person then has to jump through multiple hoops to get their property back.

 

Clear as mud, huh?

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

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You made an oversight of similar magnitude. There is no such thing as "dual resident." You can be a resident in several states as far as ATF is concerned.

 

  ATF does not require FFLs to see a state ID issued by the state you are in to purchase as a resident of that state. They require the FFL to verify ID and residency - these are separate requirements. For instance, if you have an NJ DL, but have a residence in PA, you can buy guns as a PA resident in PA while you are residing in PA and have no need for a PA ID to get the job done. Your NJ ID is just fine, if you can prove PA residency to the satisfaction of the FFL.

 

As I said before, some FFLs probably aren't going to want to deal with this. The simple fact that you have an NJ ID (versus, WV or DE let's say) is going to put them on alert right off the bat.

 

Further, I don't have personal experience. So it wouldn't surprise me to learn I made some other minor oversight. Need to figure it out for yourself if you plan to do it.

 

I agree, however, the proof of residency/address must be a government issued document.

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I agree, however, the proof of residency/address must be a government issued document.

 

 

I would assume anybody that has a residence has a government issued document. Property taxes come to mind. Titles, deeds, etc. Like I said, I've never done it that way. Heck, how about your LTCF/CCW? In PA you don't need a PA DL to get one if you are willing to do the work (same as convincing an FFL, variable). It is specified as acceptable government issued "ID" under most PA laws. I would assume most states are similar.

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