Out of state resident CCW in PA

[High Exposure 5,661]

I have searched but my search-fu is apparantly weak sauce....

 

I have friends from NJ with FL CCW that are planning a trip to PA. I thought I remembered that FL was recently down-checked as a reciprocal CCW for folks with an out of state FL CCW license.

 

Can anyone confirm that Utah is now the only out of state CCW that is honored in PA?

 

Links to the new law and explanations would be helpful as the PA AG office and PAFOA sites are a little contradictory and confusing.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

UT is GTG. FL is not. I don't know for any others.

[checko 180]

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184

 

That is their reciprocity page.

The following states have been granted statutory reciprocity without a formal written agreement under 6106(b)(15), based on the determination of the Attorney General that the other state has granted reciprocity to Pennsylvania license holders, and that the other state's laws governing firearms are similar.     

• Colorado
• Iowa
• Indiana
• Kansas
• Louisiana
• Montana
• North Dakota - Effective August 1, 2013 only North Dakota Class I permits are recognized in Category 2.
• Utah
• Wisconsin

   

  http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/PA/18/II/G/61/A/6106/firearms-not-to-be-carried-without-a-license/

[njpilot 671]

I believe NH is still good in PA.

[T Bill 649]

Non-Res FL CCW dropped by PA 6/8/2013.

[Night Prowler 0]

Pretty much UT is the only option we have left for PA any more.

[High Exposure 5,661]

Checko, I saw that page. Maybe I am daft, but it made absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

 

If you live in FL and have a FL CCW you are good, but if you have a non-res FL CCW it's no good?

 

Any news articles or press releases from 6/13 when this was changed?

 

Thanks again everyone. Much appreciated.

[n4p226r 105]

Florida allows them to transport in a car if they want to open carry. Otherwise Utah

[n4p226r 105]

Checko, I saw that page. Maybe I am daft, but it made absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

 

If you live in FL and have a FL CCW you are good, but if you have a non-res FL CCW it's no good?

 

Any news articles or press releases from 6/13 when this was changed?

 

Thanks again everyone. Much appreciated.

Yes. That's pretty much it. If you have a Florida ccw they want you to show a Florida drivers license with it.

[Night Prowler 0]

Checko, I saw that page. Maybe I am daft, but it made absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

Exactly

 

If you live in FL and have a FL CCW you are good, but if you have a non-res FL CCW it's no good?

 

Any news articles or press releases from 6/13 when this was changed?

 

Thanks again everyone. Much appreciated.

[njpilot 671]

Checko, I saw that page. Maybe I am daft, but it made absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

If you live in FL and have a FL CCW you are good, but if you have a non-res FL CCW it's no good?

Any news articles or press releases from 6/13 when this was changed?

Thanks again everyone. Much appreciated.

Yes, the anti-gun AG changed it to stop qualified Philly residents that get turned down for a PA LCTF from getting one out of state to carry in PA

[checko 180]

https://www.attorneygeneral.gov/press.aspx?id=6811

 

Seems like people were getting denied in PA then applying for FLA and getting it.  How I have no idea.

[ryan_j 0]

This is like the 5th hit when you google "PA CCW"

 

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184

 

That's straight from the horse's ass... err mouth.

[ryan_j 0]

Also this is handy:

 

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf

[ryan_j 0]

UT is GTG. FL is not. I don't know for any others.

 

There are others but the catch is you must get a permit from your home state first, which is no go for >99% of NJ residents. NH now requires a home state permit for issuance or renewal of a non-resident LTC. Texas works as well but you need to take the Texas CHL class in Texas and qualify, and it's not as cheap as the Utah. 

 

Last year she (Kane) dropped non-resident FL, VA, AZ. ME and MS were already residents only. ND is a bit bizarre as they decided to say "FU" to anti states like NJ and not issue any permits to them and revoke those who had them. But you can still carry on FL, UT and others. Very, very strange. 

 

http://www.ag.state.nd.us/BCI/CW/reciprocity.htm

[High Exposure 5,661]

Ryan_j those are handy thanks.

 

I just found this but couldn't verify:

Later this afternoon, the Florida reciprocity web page will be revised to reflect that authorities in Pennsylvania WILL NOT honor a Florida concealed weapon license UNLESS the license holder is a resident of the State of Florida. Our motivation in making this change is the security and well-being of those non-resident license holders who may in fact face arrest and prosecution in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania if they should decide to travel there while carrying a concealed firearm with their Florida licenses. Clearly, the latest word coming out of the Pennsylvania AG's office confirms that our non-resident licensees are at risk.

 

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to get back in touch with me.

 

Ken Wilkinson

Management Analyst

Department of Agriculture & Consumer Services

Division of Licensing

Post Office Box 6687

Tallahassee, Florida 32314-6687

Thanks again

[checko 180]

It seems to me that they are specifically talking about Florida Non Res CCW holders.  What is throwing you off there?

[ogfarmer 138]

come on now Rickers,

[mipafox 438]

 

Checko, I saw that page. Maybe I am daft, but it made absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

 

Well, it's worse if you want to carry in Florida. They don't accept ANY non-resident licenses from other states. Similar to several other states.

 

Check handgunlaw.us.

 

Non-resident Utah covers you in in PA.

 

A carry permit from any state, reciprocal or not, allows vehicle carry in PA. So you could drive around carrying a gun in your car, and then open carry (except in Philly).

[mipafox 438]

See bold below.

 

§6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.

 

(a) Offense defined.--

 

* (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

* (2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a [FN1] valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.

*

 

* (b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:

 

* (1) Constables, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens, or their deputies, policemen of this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions, or other law-enforcement officers.

* (2) Members of the army, navy, marine corps, air force or coast guard of the United States or of the National Guard or organized reserves when on duty.

* (3) The regularly enrolled members of any organization duly organized to purchase or receive such firearms from the United States or from this Commonwealth.

* (4) Any persons engaged in target shooting with a firearm, if such persons are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to or from their places of assembly or target practice, the firearm is not loaded.

* (5) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed firearm.

* (6) Agents, messengers and other employees of common carriers, banks, or business firms, whose duties require them to protect moneys, valuables and other property in the discharge of such duties.

* (7) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person, having in his possession, using or carrying a firearm in the usual or ordinary course of such business.

* (8) Any person while carrying a firearm which is not loaded and is in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair, sale or appraisal or back to his home or place of business, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property under section 6111.1(b)(4) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police), or to a place of instruction intended to teach the safe handling, use or maintenance of firearms or back or to a location to which the person has been directed to relinquish firearms under 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108 (relating to relief) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a licensed dealer's place of business for relinquishment pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S § 6108.2 (relating to relinquishment for consignment sale, lawful transfer or safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a location for safekeeping pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.3 (relating to relinquishment to third party for safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm.

* (9) Persons licensed to hunt, take furbearers or fish in this Commonwealth, if such persons are actually hunting, taking furbearers or fishing as permitted by such license, or are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take furbearers or fish or returning from such places.

* (10) Persons training dogs, if such persons are actually training dogs during the regular training season.

* (11) Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.

* (12) A person who has a lawfully issued license to carry a firearm pursuant to section 6109 (relating to licenses) and that said license expired within six months prior to the date of arrest and that the individual is otherwise eligible for renewal of the license.

* (13) Any person who is otherwise eligible to possess a firearm under this chapter and who is operating a motor vehicle which is registered in the person's name or the name of a spouse or parent and which contains a firearm for which a valid license has been issued pursuant to section 6109 to the spouse or parent owning the firearm.

* (14) A person lawfully engaged in the interstate transportation of a firearm as defined under 18 U.S.C § 921(a)(3) (relating to definitions) in compliance with 18 U.S.C. § 926A (relating to interstate transportation of firearms).

* (15) Any person who possesses a valid and lawfully issued license or permit to carry a firearm which has been issued under the laws of another state, regardless of whether a reciprocity agreement exists between the Commonwealth and the state under section 6109(k), provided:

* (i) The state provides a reciprocal privilege for individuals licensed to carry firearms under section 6109.

* (ii) The Attorney General has determined that the firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws of this Commonwealth.

* (16) Any person holding a license in accordance with section 6109(f)(3).

[High Exposure 5,661]

come on now Rickers,

I know I am retarded...

[ryan_j 0]

Ryan_j those are handy thanks.

 

I just found this but couldn't verify:

 

Thanks again

 

 

The backstory to this is a shooting that happened in Philly, where a Philly resident named Marqus Hill shot someone trying to break into his car. He was initially disqualified from getting a PA LTCF because of a confrontation he had with police and later assaulted a police officer after he lost his appeal, He then got a Florida permit instead, which he could legally carry with. And with that FL permit (and a gun, obviously), he was able to shoot an unarmed 18 year old. 

 

When Kane was running for AG, she had this as part of her campaign platform and even ran ads saying she would "close the Florida loophole." Bloomberg pumped money into her campaign and she won, because among other things people weren't happy how the previous AG handled the Penn State/Sandusky scandal.

 

So things began to tighten up. Kane started with Florida and modified the reciprocity agreements to make it for residents only. Then she went with AZ and VA. Utah wasn't an issue because Utah doesn't issue a permit to a PA resident unless you have a LTCF. 

 

This is, in a nutshell, why it is how it is.

 

But the good news is that there was a court case, McKown which clarified that residents who wish to carry concealed (and open in Philly) need to have a PA LTCF and cannot carry on an out of state permit. So now Kane really has no reason to touch anything else, because mission accomplished, PA residents cannot carry on a nonresident permit. And it makes sense - if you are a PA resident, it's easy to get a LTCF as long as you have no disqualifying factors, unless you live in Philadelphia. So why not get one? 

[mipafox 438]

And it makes sense - if you are a PA resident, it's easy to get a LTCF as long as you have no disqualifying factors, unless you live in Philadelphia. So why not get one? 

Because Philadelphia violates the law and makes many people pay for lawyers to go to court and get a license they are qualified for. I think that's a good reason. Another good reason would be cost or time and effort. The PA LTCF is not a very good one for reciprocity. Many people have to take time off work to apply, and sometimes even to go pick it up or go to the polcie for the illegal "card check" in some counties. Further, what if you move from Florida to a county in PA that takes 45 days to approve? You can't carry on your prior permit.

 

It actually makes no sense. The only advantage is it allows Philly to deny as many people as possible. What would make sense would be no permit required.

[ryan_j 0]

Because Philadelphia violates the law and makes many people pay for lawyers to go to court and get a license they are qualified for.

 

That's why I said:

 

 

 

if you are a PA resident, it's easy to get a LTCF as long as you have no disqualifying factors, unless you live in Philadelphia.

[mipafox 438]

Absolutely, but you also said it makes sense, and I just happen to disagree.

 

The backstory to this is a shooting that happened in Philly, where a Philly resident named Marqus Hill shot someone trying to break into his car. He was initially disqualified from getting a PA LTCF because of a confrontation he had with police and later assaulted a police officer after he lost his appeal, He then got a Florida permit instead, which he could legally carry with. And with that FL permit (and a gun, obviously), he was able to shoot an unarmed 18 year old.

That's not the "backstory."

 

Obama didn't push for an AWB because of the shooting in Connecticut. Connecticut was an excuse, a rallying cry, not a genesis. Same thing with Kane. That was not a reason, that was a cherry-picked example used to push the agenda.

 

The reason is simple. If Philly could pass their own gun laws, which they have been working at for a long time, carrying in Philly would be the same as carrying in NYC - you would need a Philly permit and only the connected would get them. They deny everybody they possibly can for illegal reasons, and they would deny everybody if they could. That is all there is to this, nothing more.

 

A Pennsylvanian with a Florida license is no more dangerous than a Floridian with a Florida license. If Florida's license does not meet our standards, they shouldn't have reciprocity.

 

One one hand, we have law abiding Pennsylvanians carrying on reciprocal licenses that our AG or legislature has determined meets our requirements - Legally

 

On the other hand, we have Philly denying as many carry permits as possible - Illegally

 

Empowering Philly's ability to break the law and violate the rights of law abiding citizens is not a valid reason to hold Pennsylvania residents to a different standard than the residents from other states under any criteria.

[ryan_j 0]

It is pretty much the backstory. It's not their motivations, but the backstory is what lets them justify it. 

 

It's also why she targeted Florida first. 

[HODGIE 3]

Down load the CCW APP for .99 on apple or android, it's updated every day with all changing information and the state laws on CC.

[ryan_j 0]

Www.handgunlaw.us is free and better than any app I've tried.

[HODGIE 3]

I like the CCW app because you can place all the permits you have in and it will allow you to see a list of do's and donts for each state, it's excellent if you are traveling from state to state. Even if a state allowes you to carry they may not in resturants that serve booze and other things it can all be found on the go in secounds. I have never looked at the link you posted I will check it out.

[checko 180]

I like the CCW app because you can place all the permits you have in and it will allow you to see a list of do's and donts for each state, it's excellent if you are traveling from state to state. Even if a state allowes you to carry they may not in resturants that serve booze and other things it can all be found on the go in secounds. I have never looked at the link you posted I will check it out.

 

 

I like it too.  good info on there.