NJ only issued 1195 CCW permits

[Jfoster99 80]

According to Scott Bach discovery on the Drake case has revealed NJ only has 1195 active carry permits..

 

And this includes armored car, armed security and retired police...

 

I would love to know the number of regular citizens that have carry permits... I would bet it is under 100 in a state of 6 million people...

 

What a joke it is every time I hear all 50 states now issue carry permits...

 

 

[RubberBullets 65]

I would absolutely LOVE to see if they can break that data down further into those subsections. Damning to the claim that their justifiable need clause is, shall we say, justifiable.

[Displaced Texan 11,731]

I'd like to see what the recent decision by the 9th circuit court will have on this.

Love to see CCW legal in NJ before I leave this state.

[Howard 538]

According to Scott Bach discovery on the Drake case has revealed NJ only has 1195 active carry permits..

 

And this includes armored car, armed security and retired police...

 

I would love to know the number of regular citizens that have carry permits... I would bet it is under 100 in a state of 6 million people...

 

What a joke it is every time I hear all 50 states now issue carry permits...

Are you sure what is included in this?  I am fairly certain retired LEO is covered by totally separate rules regarding carry.  I doubt this included armored car or security either.  Even if it only includes average Joes that could "prove" justifiable need that is still under 1200 per 6,000,000 which is about 0.02% - which is effectively not significantly different than ZERO!

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

I'd like to see what the recent decision by the 9th circuit court will have on this.

Love to see CCW legal in NJ before I leave this state.

 

I would love to see it legal before I'm either dead or too old to care.

 

More than 30 states trust me with CCW, but not my home state.

[djg0770 481]

Are you sure what is included in this?  I am fairly certain retired LEO is covered by totally separate rules regarding carry.  I doubt this included armored car or security either.  Even if it only includes average Joes that could "prove" justifiable need that is still under 1200 per 6,000,000 which is about 0.02% - which is effectively not significantly different than ZERO!

 

You really need to listen to the radio show where this was clarified.  The number includes Retired LEO, as well as conditional permits issued for work , etc etc.  The number is a tiny fraction of a percent of the NJ population and clearly shows that NJ believes that NO ONE has justifiable need.

[Howard 538]

You really need to listen to the radio show where this was clarified.  The number includes Retired LEO, as well as conditional permits issued for work , etc etc.  The number is a tiny fraction of a percent of the NJ population and clearly shows that NJ believes that NO ONE has justifiable need.

I have no clue what radio show you are talking about, please provide me a link.  I just find it to be a low number if that is the case as I would think there would be a heck of a lot more retired law enforcement officers than 1195 and that does not even include armored or security guards.  It just seems way too low.

[ogfarmer 138]

hes probably talking about gun for hire radio episode

[10X 3,296]

New Jersey is the 11th most populous state, slightly behind North Carolina, slightly ahead of Virginia.

 

They are all eastern seaboard states, so close together they either have a common border, or almost do.  Very similar populations.  The biggest cities in NC and Virginia (Charlotte, Raleigh, Virginia Beach, and Norfolk) are bigger than the biggest cities in NJ, so the argument that urban areas are inherently dangerous should mean NJ is relatively safer.

 

I don't have at hand the number of carry permits or the violent crime statistics for NC or VA, but I would think the comparison would be most enlightening...and probably self-evident to those of us on this board.

 

Too bad the politicians in NJ don't care about the facts.

[intercooler 41]

gun for hire radio..its a podcast but you can go on the Gun for hire forum here and listen to it too

[Joshua07 0]

My manager requested if I can obtain a carrying permit for my job (Corp. Security). I did my basic pistol course and even got my Florida CCW. I took my certificates and all my documents to my local PD in North Arlington. The officer without even looking at my documents and letter of need straight told me. "I've been working here for fives years and we've never issued a CCW permit. You can try if you want." I took my paperwork and never went back. My job is in Montvale and some how North Arlington decides if I should be allowed a CCW permit. This crap makes no sense.

[magnawing 5]

The letter from your employer has to be on company letterhead and signed by your manager. Even then, there's no guarantee you'll get it unless you can show proof that you regularly carry large sums of cash for business purposes. (Although even the owner of ATMs, who fills them with cash, was denied a permit)

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[illy 1]

For some perspective, I asked a guy who asked a guy who knows and in one County* there are 45 active CCWs, of which 90+ percent are conditional permits and retired LEOs.

 

*Central Jersey, population about 3/4 of average.
So add another 1/4 to that number x 21 counties = 1,176 +/-.

 

So 1,195, maybe 100 of which are regular citizens, sounds just about right.

[NicePants 58]

This is like a trump card, right? I mean, if one of the cases goes up to the SC and they pull this out, there's no way they could make a case against that.

[ogfarmer 138]

A guy I play poker with was telling me a few weeks ago his brother has a NJ carry permit. I asked him if he was LEO, retired, well connected, in armored security. He said no he was a security system installer. I asked how did he get it, he laughed and told me his brother went to Flemington PD and told them he was being threatened by MS-13 gang members,  he said that his paperwork and such was processed with no issues and had a permit within a week. I argued that this was BS and I wanted to see proof, but I still haven't gotten any. So its probably BS

[High Exposure 5,661]

I am sorry but without documented proof I can't believe that number includes all the retired LEOs in the state as well as non-LEO permits.

 

Federal law HR 218/LEOSA spells out a lot of what is required for retired in good standing carry, and while I am still at least 15 years from retirement I am pretty sure that when I go, my retired creds don't count as a CCW Permit....

[Howard 538]

I am sorry but without documented proof I can't believe that number includes all the retired LEOs in the state as well as non-LEO permits.

 

Federal law HR 218/LEOSA spells out a lot of what is required for retired in good standing carry, and while I am still at least 25 years from retirement I am pretty sure that when I go my retired creds don't count as a CCW Permit....

Exactly, that is what I was talking about.  I don't know the exact numbers, but when you factoring in all the little towns that have police forces, state police, corrections officers, FBI, and other LEO's that carry guns in NJ I would think there are more than 1,000 that retire every year.  I would bet the vast majority of them do what is required to keep their rights to carry.

 

According to this "reliable source"  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_municipalities_in_New_Jersey  NJ has 565 municipalities.  If only 2 people retire from each every year that is more than what is being claimed as the total permits.  Something just does not seem to ring true with this number.  I might believe that 1100+ number is the number of average citizens only.

[mark_anthony_78 0]

If there were ANY way that NJ could pad the numbers to make it look like there were more permits, don't you think they'd do it?

 

I have no idea what makes up the 1,195 active permits, but the only way the state would admit to such a small number is if that were actually the truth, since that fact can only hurt the state in a hearing.

[chris327 30]

i dont believe that can be correct either, seems there would be way more retired leo with ccw permits. But according to Bach that is correct 1195 with retired leo  and security ect. as of 2011.could it be that many retired leo don't renew their permits or don't want to bother qualifying? move out of state. i mean i dont think the stat is right but thats what bach is reporting from info the state provided. While im not sure the stats are correct, i guess i can see that they may be right by way of leo's not renewing permit or qualifying or whatever the case may be.

[raz-0 1,259]

Are you sure what is included in this?  I am fairly certain retired LEO is covered by totally separate rules regarding carry.  I doubt this included armored car or security either.  Even if it only includes average Joes that could "prove" justifiable need that is still under 1200 per 6,000,000 which is about 0.02% - which is effectively not significantly different than ZERO!

 

crunching some numbers, I doubt it. looked up number of police departments in NJ. Best I got was a list of them (maybe complete), sheriffs office, and prosecutors office. Came up with 198 departments including sheriffs office. That'd be 6.03 retired officers per department with a permit. That seems low. Especialy if you have to cram all the conditional permits for armed guards and armored truck drivers in there too. 

 

How many towns? 600+? Think there is an average of one politician or some other administrative individual who is connected and gets death threats on a regular basis? 

[ryan_j 0]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't include retired cops. It may include security guards. 

 

NJSP supplied annual numbers in a court brief to the 3rd circuit court of appeals listing 500-800 permits being approved per year. They specifically stated that number doesn't include retired police. Those figures (not the same brief, but numbers subpoenaed from the NJSP FIU) were used to arrive at the 1195 number by adding together two years worth of data. Since permits are only valid for two years, that's how they came to that conclusion.

 

I'm sure the number of retired cop permits is probably in the tens of thousands.

[tomgwarrior 9]

That number is way to low to include retired leo's. Me like many others who are retired cops from ny that moved to N.J who have Carry Permits.So that number is probably alot higher with all the retired leo;s

[maintenanceguy 510]

I thought the 1200 figure included armed security but not retired LEO.  I've read a figure of 32,000 for retired LEO but can't find the reference now.

 

I did know one person who had a carry permit 25 or more years ago.  He owned a convenience store and had a permit with restrictions.  He was able to carry from his store to the bank if he had more than a certain amount of money in his possession.  So on good sales days he could carry for about 10 minutes at the end of his work day and then the gun went in the trunk for the ride home.

 

He has since passed away.

[NEAHS 11]

I have no clue what radio show you are talking about, please provide me a link.

Here you go Howard. It's called Gun for Hire Radio. http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/66424-gfhr-142-bach-in-the-studio-to-discuss-drake-and-rtk-in-nj-soon/?p=843868

 

You should listen to the last 2 shows. Scott Bach was on this weekends show. And Evan Nappen was on last weeks show.

 

http://www.gunforhireradio.com/

[chris327 30]

Here you go Howard. It's called Gun for Hire Radio. http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/66424-gfhr-142-bach-in-the-studio-to-discuss-drake-and-rtk-in-nj-soon/?p=843868

 

You should listen to the last 2 shows. Scott Bach was on this weekends show. And Evan Nappen was on last weeks show.

 

http://www.gunforhireradio.com/

Everyone should listen to the last two shows. Im not a fan of the show normally nor do I 100% agree with anthony on some things. But listen to the last two they are well worth it. And I agree with voting for him for nra board. If anyone he can lite a fire for us in the nra.

[EX Carnival man 223]

The number might be right. Most cops after they retire leave NJ for the sunshine, Golf, and no state income tax in Florida. I were a cop the last place I would stay is here in NJ.

[intercooler 41]

a lot of cops also let it go....I know more than a few that did

[High Exposure 5,661]

I know over 50 guys right now in my county that carry retired and I know damn well I don't know every retired guy from my county that carries. Hell, in the last ten years there are 15 guys that have retired from my little 28 man agency alone, that continue to qualify and carry.

 

Something doesn't add up....

[ryan_j 0]

I'm positive it isn't retired law enforcement.

 

See this: 

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/20560-saf-v-nj-muller-et-al-v-maenza-et-al/page-22#entry671070

 

This is similar to the more up to date data they recently obtained. On page 7, point 15, Lt Genova says that it is strictly private citizens and not retired law enforcement. The number is between 500-800 per year issued. Renewals are in that statistic because technically there is no renewal in NJ. All are treated like first issue.

 

They did not distinguish between private citizens and security guards, so in all likelihood this 1195 number does not include armed security guards. 

[ryan_j 0]

That number is way to low to include retired leo's. Me like many others who are retired cops from ny that moved to N.J who have Carry Permits.So that number is probably alot higher with all the retired leo;s

 

The 30k from the GAO study seems to be about right for retired law enforcement.