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revenger

another "question 26" question

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  I know this has been asked many times on the forums but is there anyone who can answer how is this investigated during the background check and what databases to they check to see if someone ever went to a psychiatrist on their own.      also, can someone get their own records from the county adjuster to see if anything incriminating might be included.

 

  There must be someone on here that knows how this is checked and can give a definitive answer on this question.

 

  thanks 

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You have nothing to worry about if you went to a Psy on your own unless you told him that you were having homicidal thoughts as he would have been required to report that! The question pertains to being institutionalized or adjudicated by a court. 

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I recommend you read the thread "Application question" started by peglegnmh on 12/16/2013, and my post in that thread. (apologies for not just pasting the link to it here).

 

I believe you will find it informative. Note that in contrast to what I stated at that time, my answering yes to q#26 has definitely impacted the approval of my application. It is still in process and I am NOT hopeful that it will be approved.

 

I will post further information concerning my situation at the appropriate time. In the meantime, private message me if you have any questions.

 

Regards

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Although I do agree with you on having nothing to worry about  it is the wording of the question that is a problem for many.  "have you ever been treated or attended on a inpatient or outpatient by a psychiatrist ..........................................."      I would have no problem explaining myself but what kind of doors are you opening for the future gun issues in this fascist police state.  when I last did a change of address and got pistol permits the current question 26 did not exist so getting a new card and permits was not an issue.   Now as I fill out the form this odious question 26 is there and designed as a trap.    It would be very helpful to many current and future gun owners to know exactly what and where is checked to determine if someone saw a doctor without being ordered to.    many NJ gun owners may fall victim to this question by answering yes when there is possibly no reason to.

 Gun owners in NJ also have to be concerned with the future,  Just as they changed the wording on the form and added question 26 they can also change it again or add something like "if you were ever treated you are denied"  and a yes answer today may be a disqualifier say two -three years from now.

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"It would be very helpful to many current and future gun owners to know exactly what and where is checked to determine if someone saw a doctor without being ordered to.    Many NJ gun owners may fall victim to this question by answering yes when there is possibly no reason to."

 

First, I have direct experience - checked "yes."

 

The answer to what records are checked depends on the local police department, however, keep in mind (as they will tell you) they are detectives trained to discover things.   That being said, if you've just been to a psychiatrist for, say depression treatment, there will not be the kinds of available records that would exist if you had been adjudicated mentally ill, for instance.  

 

Lying on the form is a third degree crime.

 

The way to handle this (in my opinion) is to write a cover letter explaining the circumstances, go to the doctor who treated you and get them to write a letter stating that they treated you, you're fine, and you're not going to hurt yourself or anyone else (they do it all the time) and submit both of those letters to the local PD when you file the STS 033.

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Decided to talk to an attorney and also talked to a cop who does the FID's for his dept and explained entire situation,   Since psychiatrist was technically not for any mental disorder or anything like that I'm good to go so I dropped off paperwork today.  

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I think if you wanted to read into the strict letter of the law, seeing a therapist for plain depression or anxiety would warrant a "yes."

Looking at the spirit of the law and the types of records that end up being searched, they're looking for something a bit more serious.

 

In any case, if you've seen a therapist and had it paid with private insurance or out of pocket, there's absolutely no way they can find out, short of subpeona'ing your insurance company, and that would be a BIG deal because of HIPAA.

 

So, I'd say follow your conscience, but understand that in this state, no good deed goes unpunished. By answering "yes," you expose yourself to the possibility of future unconstitutional legislation that would unjustly deprive you of your rights. I don't think anyone has a moral obligation to follow an immoral law. The question is, do you have a moral obligation to put yourself in harm's way of a future immoral law. My brain cannot process this.

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I agree about being exposed to future unconstitutional legislation,  with the way NJ's legislators keep raising the bar I believe there would be a very good possibility that when right to carry finally makes it to NJ that there will be so many "trap" questions on what will be the new form that if you ever drank a glass of champagne on new years eve for more than 2 consecutive years that would qualify you as being a habitual drunkard thus prohibiting you in NJ from owning a firearm.   So its not really important how you answer today as much as what will be applied tomorrow.

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I was told by the Chief of my PD that he is actually upset that he is only able to check in the county that I reside in as far as this goes.  He was slightly annoyed that he wasnt able to check other counties nor the VA records even if he wanted to.  Supposedly there is legislation in the works to at least get the info state wide/ country wide.  I have no hardcore facts or evidence of how that works , I am just passing along info given to me from the horses mouth.... so to speak.

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I was told by the Chief of my PD that he is actually upset that he is only able to check in the county that I reside in as far as this goes. He was slightly annoyed that he wasnt able to check other counties nor the VA records even if he wanted to. Supposedly there is legislation in the works to at least get the info state wide/ country wide. I have no hardcore facts or evidence of how that works , I am just passing along info given to me from the horses mouth.... so to speak.

He might be wrong about that. My PD checks mental health records for every county I've lived in, going back 10 years (via form SP 66)

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You have nothing to worry about if you went to a Psy on your own unless you told him that you were having homicidal thoughts as he would have been required to report that! The question pertains to being institutionalized or adjudicated by a court.

+1 on this. They do not care unless you pose a danger to anyone.

 

For instance, if you went to a Psy because you had a close relative die and wanted to discuss your feelings on how you were upset at the loss, this would be no big deal.

 

If you went there and said you heard voices telling you to kill, big red flag.

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I think if you wanted to read into the strict letter of the law, seeing a therapist for plain depression or anxiety would warrant a "yes."

Looking at the spirit of the law and the types of records that end up being searched, they're looking for something a bit more serious.

 

In any case, if you've seen a therapist and had it paid with private insurance or out of pocket, there's absolutely no way they can find out, short of subpeona'ing your insurance company, and that would be a BIG deal because of HIPAA.

 

So, I'd say follow your conscience, but understand that in this state, no good deed goes unpunished. By answering "yes," you expose yourself to the possibility of future unconstitutional legislation that would unjustly deprive you of your rights. I don't think anyone has a moral obligation to follow an immoral law. The question is, do you have a moral obligation to put yourself in harm's way of a future immoral law. My brain cannot process this.

 

 

Why? if it says psychiatrist, that is an MD who can write scripts. Lots of tehrapists are folks with social work degrees and some certs, masters in psychology, PhDs in psychology, or PsyD in psychology. None of which is a psychiatrist who is an MD in psychiatry. 

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Ive talked to the njsp about this in the past when my buddy was having his mental health expingment done... only mental health confinements and court ordered psychs come up... if everytime u saw a shrink it came up then i would be denied to for seeing one when my parents got divorced and thats yet to be an issue

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If you have ever seen a doctor for mental health reasons you need to answer yes to the question.  More visits are being reported and the question asks have you ever, not what do you think is reported.  Answer correctly and explain the visit.  By answering yes you should also provide a letter from a "physician" indicating you are not a threat to yourself or anyone else and you can safely handle firearms.  The only way to DQ you for answering yes is if you were adjudicated mental defective or refuse to get a letter from a doctor.  The doctor who provides the letter does not have to be a psychologist, it can be any licensed physician.

 

Don't look into this question to much, it's not as bad as you think.

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I've been a recovering alcoholic for over 30 years and was in a rehab when I first got sober (my choice). I answered yes to the question because even though I'm recovering, I'll always be an alcoholic. My PD requested a doctor's note and my current MD provided a statement that I don't have any current symptoms of the disease. (certified by a notary) There was no problem with my FID and pistol permit app.

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