Gun Prices in NJ and the ridiculousness of putting up with it.

[Polak 3]

I shop around a lot before buying a gun and I always buy from the cheapest - total (price+shipping) - place. My money mostly will not go to NJ gun shops because prices are usually too high and I'm not into giving my money away to keep a business going. I'm not an investor.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I tend to do msrp after tax and nics. To me that's fair

[Blacksmythe 71]

Wow, never pay MSRP. I expect 10-15% below.

Hey I try to be fair. I have a basic understanding of economics. If something is worth it to me I will pay for it. However there are some who take it to the extreme. hundreds of dollars IMHO is extreme.  That kind of sticker shock is horrible. I kind of swayed away from the northern gun stores and stick to a few southern ones here in NJ. I have realized that in the last few months that I now do mind driving 3 hours for a deal. Especially with my work schedule.

So to sum it up, gun prices here in NJ are high for most retailers because of the restrictive permitting and high taxes of the state of NJ some of the retailers are dicks. People for the most part accept this and perpetuate it.

[Contrvlr 17]

Driving 3 hours for a deal negates the deal, I value my time and gas is pretty frikkin expensive

 

The Henry Frontier rifle was mentioned earlier in the thread ; $450 MSRP , took my bil to a LGS ( 20 min. drive ) 5-6 weeks ago, did a little haggling and walked out the door with the rifle and 5 sleeve's of Mini Mags for a total of $454

 

I know he made money or he wouldn't have done it

[10-ring 0]

You have to shop around, whether it's a $25 blender or a $2500 rifle. Margins on new guns are small, and keeping an inventory ties up a lot of capital. I'd guess many dealers make more on transfer fees than they would, all things considered, on a $200 rifle.

 

Small shops have to charge more because they have relatively low turnover, but must still maintain an inventory to be anywhere near competitive.

 

This market (including gunsmithing) is a lot like finding a good auto mechanic or body shop. You get burned if you don't do your homework and comparison shopping.

+1

[chris327 30]

You can't send post office

 

Yes gun is $500 from distributor

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

just to comment on this, i didnt think anyone could send usps either. But i ordered a pistol on grabagun.com and it was shipped usps. I was shocked when i got the tracking number and thought it must be a mistake. but sure enough it arrived at the ffl via usps. and this was only a week ago.

[Blacksmythe 71]

just to comment on this, i didnt think anyone could send usps either. But i ordered a pistol on grabagun.com and it was shipped usps. I was shocked when i got the tracking number and thought it must be a mistake. but sure enough it arrived at the ffl via usps. and this was only a week ago.

BAZINGAAAA! LOL! I waitedf 2 years to buy a KSG only to sell it. I'll stick to good ol' mossbergs bennelli's and 870's. That damn thing beat the crap out my wrist! I am very disappointed.

[bry@n 195]

FFL's can ship through the USPS. They fill out specific forms and are able to send it. They generally need to show their license etc...

[KpdPipes 388]

Oh and holy crap on that KSG price.  They are readily available for 1k, and less if you hunt for them.  That's crazy.  

  It's very possible that the LGS bought that when they were INCREDIBLY hard to come by...and is now stuck with it.  PK had the same problm with one of those "Mare's Leg" Pistols/Lever actions.. He bought one for Stock when there was only one company making them...and they were expensive as hell...about 6 months later Rossi IIRC started making them for about 1/3 of the price...Paul STILL had that one in the case when he left for Az.  What was he going to do//   That said, with the exception of one, I dont think any of the FFL's ive used over the years has EVER Charged me MSRP for any firearm...but YOU as the customer also has to put in the effort of being a customer.

[PK90 3,570]

I still have it. You interested in buying it?

[KpdPipes 388]

I still have it. You interested in buying it?

[Blacksmythe 71]

that made my afternoon!

[Babyface Finster 45]

I have no problem with consumers wanting to buy online and save avey last penny. Just so long as you don't go to your local gun shop to ask questions and fondle the thing. If half the lookie-Lous I have seen tying up local gun store resources actually bought the guns they were dicking around with, the gun shops would be able to buy at the same levels as Bud's.

 

You know who you are...

[Blacksmythe 71]

Am I the only one that thinks a lot of "dealers" ruin arms list. I brought an AK last week  New from a private seller for $650 on there and now........ 

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I get guys who order all their parts online then want me to build their ar for free or let them use my garage full of tools. And these aren't people I'm friends with.

[bhunted 887]

I get guys who order all their parts online then want me to build their ar for free or let them use my garage full of tools. And these aren't people I'm friends with.

Then don't.... Common sense should kick in.... The words 'Bite Me' come to mind.

 

 

Sent from my iPad 2 using T2 Pro

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Of course I don't. I can't believe people even ask that. But they do

[iCARRY 0]

I get guys who order all their parts online then want me to build their ar for free or let them use my garage full of tools. And these aren't people I'm friends with.

When can I come over Shawn? Got a new one I want to build. Lol

[mrg455 6]

I mostly use a LGS for my purchases, but sometimes I find something online either a lot cheaper, or something he can't get, his response is always the same.....get it online and save myself a few bucks. Sometimes he's cheaper than the prices online, and sometimes his knowledge and support are worth the few extra bucks for a firearm he might be higher on. 

 

As for comparing a Shop from Florida, Idaho, Utah or wherever to NJ......Just imagine the property tax difference let alone the mortgage and the rest of the cost of living. I would imagine just that alone would explain a lot of the price difference.

 

Like the others said, there are plenty of good great shops around, don't let a couple of crappy ones ruin your appetite!

[Sota 1,191]

I had a rant, but I thought better of it. We'll see how the future plays out in the next week or 2 if I decide to publish it.

[Newtonian 453]

I have no problem with consumers wanting to buy online and save avey last penny. Just so long as you don't go to your local gun shop to ask questions and fondle the thing. If half the lookie-Lous I have seen tying up local gun store resources actually bought the guns they were dicking around with, the gun shops would be able to buy at the same levels as Bud's.

 

You know who you are...

I have as much right to check out firearm merchandise, with no obligation to buy, as I do with tools or clothing. I think you're suggesting that people visit the store to examine stuff, then buy it online. But given shipping and transfer fees, that's not always very smart. You've got to get the product for $70-$80 less to make it worth while.

[Babyface Finster 45]

I have as much right to check out firearm merchandise, with no obligation to buy, as I do with tools or clothing. I think you're suggesting that people visit the store to examine stuff, then buy it online. But given shipping and transfer fees, that's not always very smart. You've got to get the product for $70-$80 less to make it worth while.

 

Oh boy, here we go about rights...

 

How about being an honorable person?  These local businesses offer services and convenience that online retailers cannot.  That's reflected in the price.  It doesn't make them crooks or rip-off artists.  They have overhead and would probably like to make a little profit as well.  I don't begrudge them that.

 

Anyone who plans to buy from gunbroker, Bud's, Grab-A-Gun, etc. and uses their local gun shop to get educated and fondle the gun is a parasite.  Same goes for someone who goes to the local independent shoe store to try on something then orders it from Zappos because it's cheaper.  A smart consumer considers overall value, not just the purchase price.  If you NEED the services the local store provides you should be willing to pay for them to ensure that they will be available in the future when you need them again.

 

The specific case that Blacksmythe mentions does sound excessive.  To color all gun shops as crooks because of this one instance is inappropriate.  I've heard people complain about paying an extra $40 at a LGS vs. online.  If that $40 is that important to someone, I respect that.  Just don't eat up the LGS's time and resources when you know you're not going to buy it there. 

 

If that's not you, then I'll refer you to the last sentence in my original post.

[bhunted 887]

Not about rights. More about ethics and just good morals. It's a little different than going into Home Depot to fondle a hand saw or tool where there is no human intervention needed. But we are talking going into a lgs, interrogating the salesman for gawd knows how long, (where they don't make a final sale even), and fondling their guns in which they must hand to you.

 

You'd be pist if you were that salesman.... or store owner....

[Babyface Finster 45]

Not about rights. More about ethics and just good morals. It's a little different than going into Home Depot to fondle a hand saw or tool where there is no human intervention needed. But we are talking going into a lgs, interrogating the salesman for gawd knows how long, (where they don't make a final sale even), and fondling their guns in which they must hand to you.

 

You'd be pist if you were that salesman.... or store owner....

 

...or another customer who is actually there to buy something.

[Newtonian 453]

Oh boy, here we go about rights...

 

How about being an honorable person?  These local businesses offer services and convenience that online retailers cannot.  That's reflected in the price.  It doesn't make them crooks or rip-off artists.  They have overhead and would probably like to make a little profit as well.  I don't begrudge them that.

 

Anyone who plans to buy from gunbroker, Bud's, Grab-A-Gun, etc. and uses their local gun shop to get educated and fondle the gun is a parasite.  Same goes for someone who goes to the local independent shoe store to try on something then orders it from Zappos because it's cheaper.  A smart consumer considers overall value, not just the purchase price.  If you NEED the services the local store provides you should be willing to pay for them to ensure that they will be available in the future when you need them again.

 

The specific case that Blacksmythe mentions does sound excessive.  To color all gun shops as crooks because of this one instance is inappropriate.  I've heard people complain about paying an extra $40 at a LGS vs. online.  If that $40 is that important to someone, I respect that.  Just don't eat up the LGS's time and resources when you know you're not going to buy it there. 

 

If that's not you, then I'll refer you to the last sentence in my original post.

I'm sure that 100% of shops would prefer someone walk through the door than not. Rejection is part of sales, whether it's retail or real estate or insurance. If you can't take rejection, go work for McDonald's or WalMart.

 

Isn't one of the reasons you go to "fondle" the product to check out the price?

 

I can't imagine, if store prices were competitive with online merchants (factoring in shipping and transfer fee), that someone would rather wait three weeks and return to that very store, than take the firearm home with them that day. If prices are not competitive, well then that's the merchant's fault. 

 

I've seen Joe at Mastodon spend 15 minutes with a lady, a first-time handgun purchaser, showing her various options. There was no eyeball rolling or uncharitable language after she walked out without buying anything. Go Mastodon!

 

On the other hand my former FFL showed me a plain vanilla used Sig p238 for $100 more (including shipping!) than a brand new version that I had ordered just days before, with fancy grips, laser, box, manual, etc. 

[Babyface Finster 45]

I'm sure that 100% of shops would prefer someone walk through the door than not. Rejection is part of sales, whether it's retail or real estate or insurance. If you can't take rejection, go work for McDonald's or WalMart.

 

Isn't one of the reasons you go to "fondle" the product to check out the price?

 

I can't imagine, if store prices were competitive with online merchants (factoring in shipping and transfer fee), that someone would rather wait three weeks and return to that very store, than take the firearm home with them that day. If prices are not competitive, well then that's the merchant's fault. 

 

I've seen Joe at Mastodon spend 15 minutes with a lady, a first-time handgun purchaser, showing her various options. There was no eyeball rolling or uncharitable language after she walked out without buying anything. Go Mastodon!

 

On the other hand my former FFL showed me a plain vanilla used Sig p238 for $100 more (including shipping!) than a brand new version that I had ordered just days before, with fancy grips, laser, box, manual, etc. 

 

So I suppose that you can't see the price on the gun before you spend 40 minutes handling the gun and asking q thousand questions?

 

I never said that shops should be rude or impatient.  I said that people who intend to buy online, use the local shop to become educated and refuse to allow a reasonable price premium over internet sources are parasites.  I stand behind that.

 

BTW, I've been in sales for over 2 decades.  When the customer uses my resources with no intention to award me a sale I have earned, I am done with them.  I have a list of customers who can no longer get free proposals and engineering from me because they have used my work in the past to allow them to buy from someone cheaper who does not offer value added services.  It's not rejection when the customer walks into the door already knowing he won't buy there.  It's stealing.  Just like if you take sugar packets from Dunkin Donuts to put in your Starbucks coffee.

[Newtonian 453]

So I suppose that you can't see the price on the gun before you spend 40 minutes handling the gun and asking q thousand questions?

 

I never said that shops should be rude or impatient.  I said that people who intend to buy online, use the local shop to become educated and refuse to allow a reasonable price premium over internet sources are parasites.  I stand behind that.

 

BTW, I've been in sales for over 2 decades.  When the customer uses my resources with no intention to award me a sale I have earned, I am done with them.  I have a list of customers who can no longer get free proposals and engineering from me because they have used my work in the past to allow them to buy from someone cheaper who does not offer value added services.  It's not rejection when the customer walks into the door already knowing he won't buy there.  It's stealing.  Just like if you take sugar packets from Dunkin Donuts to put in your Starbucks coffee.

C'mon. Nobody handles a gun in a shop for 40 minutes, all the while taking up a salesman's time. 

 

Price should reflect the cost of customer relations. When you sense someone is pulling your chain there are ways to terminate the encounter. But sometimes you'll be wrong and will have lost a sale. Every selling situation is unique.

 

The most successful salesmen never complain (at least publicly) about customers taking up their time. They know when to end things, but do not begrudge a customer who asks questions. Furthermore every retailer today knows he's competing with online merchants. If he can't demonstrate value relative to Midway, SG, etc. well... 

 

By the way, one reason NJ gun dealers get so little respect, especially the smaller shops, is that so many exude negativity from the minute you walk in. Maybe they're overworked, or just impatient, or maybe it's just the climate in this state. When was the last time you got a huffy associate at Staples or WalMart?

 

Staples! Great analogy there. Computers cost about the same as guns. Do Staples sales guys get all huffy when you ask about 3-4-5 different models?  

[Babyface Finster 45]

C'mon. Nobody handles a gun in a shop for 40 minutes, all the while taking up a salesman's time.

I've been at RTSP waiting over 30 minutes for a lane and seen people still handling guns when I got my lane. Remember, they can't just let you hold the gun and walk away to do something else. 

 

 

Price should reflect the cost of customer relations. When you sense someone is pulling your chain there are ways to terminate the encounter. But sometimes you'll be wrong and will have lost a sale. Every selling situation is unique.

I believe that LGS prices DO reflect the cost of doing business. The problem is that some buyers refuse to accept that it costs more to offer local stock, a range, knowledgeable employees to answer questions, etc. Fine by me if they don't see value in these things as long as they don't take advantage of them to help facilitate a predetermined sale from someone who does not offer these things.

 

The most successful salesmen never complain (at least publicly) about customers taking up their time. They know when to end things, but do not begrudge a customer who asks questions. Furthermore every retailer today knows he's competing with online merchants. If he can't demonstrate value relative to Midway, SG, etc. well...

Where did anyone say that local gun shops are complaining to their customer's about the time they spend? Of course it is up to them to end engagement with a wheel spinner, but of course they will then be called dicks and rude and other such comments.

 

The fact that someone seeks these services locally when planning to buy online shows that he see value in the extras. He simply wants them for free. No one needs customers like that. See, they're not actually customers if they don't buy from you. They are prospects. Qualified prospects (those with the ability and intention to buy) are worth pursuing. The rest will put you out of business if you're not careful.

 

 

 

By the way, one reason NJ gun dealers get so little respect, especially the smaller shops, is that so many exude negativity from the minute you walk in. Maybe they're overworked, or just impatient, or maybe it's just the climate in this state. When was the last time you got a huffy associate at Staples or WalMart?

Now you're comparing employees of Wal-Mart and Staples to gun shop employees? When was the last time you had to spend 15+ minutes asking a Wal-Mart employee about anything? What expertise did they have to share with you?

 

 

 

Staples! Great analogy there. Computers cost about the same as guns. Do Staples sales guys get all huffy when you ask about 3-4-5 different models?

Who said these guys get upset? The thread is about "ridiculous" prices in NJ gun shops. If you see a computer from Tiger Direct and go to Staples to ask questions knowing you won't buy it there...well I suppose you know what I think about that.

 

Look, do what you want. If you think it is OK to waste the time and resources of a local businessman when you have no intention to buy from him, go for it. Just don't be surprised when the local resources start to disappear over time or the price goes up ever further.

 

I don't think there's a lot more to say om the subject.

 

Blacksmythe: I hope you will give other gun shops in NJ a chance. There are some great places here and they are well worth the reasonable premium they charge.

[Newtonian 453]

Who said these guys get upset? The thread is about "ridiculous" prices in NJ gun shops. If you see a computer from Tiger Direct and go to Staples to ask questions knowing you won't buy it there...well I suppose you know what I think about that.

 

Look, do what you want. If you think it is OK to waste the time and resources of a local businessman when you have no intention to buy from him, go for it. Just don't be surprised when the local resources start to disappear over time or the price goes up ever further.

 

I agree with the original post on this sub-topic, of going in with NO intention of buying, of ripping off a shop's expertise and good will when there's ZERO chance of purchasing. Then again, what do you say when you're admiring something while waiting for a lane, and the sales guy asks if he can help you? Mind you, you don't even have a permit on you. 

 

Do you leap to the middle of the shop and proclaim, finger raised, "NO SIR! The very notion of wasting your time is utterly repugnant, SIR! It's immoral! It's sinister! It's agaynst my code of conduct and I will not stand for it!!"

 

What I said to the sales guy at RTSP last September was "Yes, these .22's are interesting, especially the revolvers." Even though I'd been looking to burn my last permit on a 9mm semi-auto, which I'd been shopping for online. I wound up fondling three or four, took up about 10-12 minutes of his time. Sales guy was informative and helpful. Two days later I drove back down to RTSP and purchased a S&W 617, which if you follow my rants in these forums you'll recognize as my favorite handgun. I still don't have a 9mm, unless you count .380 and 9x18.

 

Ask the guy who owns RTSP if he was sorry I wasted his employee's time. 

[Babyface Finster 45]

I agree with the original post on this sub-topic, of going in with NO intention of buying, of ripping off a shop's expertise and good will when there's ZERO chance of purchasing. Then again, what do you say when you're admiring something while waiting for a lane, and the sales guy asks if he can help you? Mind you, you don't even have a permit on you. 

 

Do you leap to the middle of the shop and proclaim, finger raised, "NO SIR! The very notion of wasting your time is utterly repugnant, SIR! It's immoral! It's sinister! It's agaynst my code of conduct and I will not stand for it!!"

 

What I said to the sales guy at RTSP last September was "Yes, these .22's are interesting, especially the revolvers." Even though I'd been looking to burn my last permit on a 9mm semi-auto, which I'd been shopping for online. I wound up fondling three or four, took up about 10-12 minutes of his time. Sales guy was informative and helpful. Two days later I drove back down to RTSP and purchased a S&W 617, which if you follow my rants in these forums you'll recognize as my favorite handgun. I still don't have a 9mm, unless you count .380 and 9x18.

 

Ask the guy who owns RTSP if he was sorry I wasted his employee's time.

Jeez, you're really stretching to find some situation that proves me wrong. If you were waiting for a lane, you are buying something from them. Get it? If you bought a gun from them you are a customer who supports their business? Don't you see that? How do you suppose I think you wasted his time if you bought a gun from them?

 

Are you really that obtuse or is playing devil's advocate a hobby for you? If you agree with my original post, why are you trying to hard to turn it in to an argument?