P2P background checks.

[Ficus 36]

So every time I apply for permits my township makes me get a background check. Is that a normal thing? I mean 20 bucks isn't much but damn I had to get 4 of them last year and they are starting to add up.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Yes. Part of the normal FPID/P2P application process. OTOH, your CLEO could require you to do fingerprints @ $50+ each time.

[AverageJoe 95]

Yep. If you think youre gonna be getting more than one in a short period of time...get multiple permits...can usually have them extended.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

So every time I apply for permits my township makes me get a background check. Is that a normal thing? I mean 20 bucks isn't much but damn I had to get 4 of them last year and they are starting to add up.

 

Yes, it's normal. They have to ensure that you haven't committed a crime since the last background check. I got my initial P2P (with Morpho Trak in lieu of the background check) in December, 2013. Earlier this month, 3-4mos later, I applied for 2 additional P2Ps. They did another background check for the $20.00 you mentioned.

[Ficus 36]

Thanks for the replies. That's what I figured. Just wasn't sure if my small town was trying to get over on me.

[Ficus 36]

I really can't complain anywY because the last few times I got them in 2-3 weeks.

[PK90 3,570]

What a waste of time and man hours for the police. NICS does the background check again right before your purchase. Of course, if you buy face to face, there is no NICS. Even then, you could have committed a crime after the issue date anyway. This procedure is so 46 years ago.

[Sota 1,191]

I really can't complain anywY because the last few times I got them in 2-3 weeks.

Agreed that some towns are getting it done faster because of the electronic aspects. But fast bullshit is still bullshit. Also I always get at least 3 permits.

[Ficus 36]

What a waste of time and man hours for the police. NICS does the background check again right before your purchase. Of course, if you buy face to face, there is no NICS. Even then, you could have committed a crime after the issue date anyway. This procedure is so 46 years ago.

Yup I agree. It's a complete waste of time.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

What a waste of time and man hours for the police. NICS does the background check again right before your purchase. Of course, if you buy face to face, there is no NICS. Even then, you could have committed a crime after the issue date anyway. This procedure is so 46 years ago.

 

Couldn't have said it better!

 

And don't even get me started on the need for repeat fingerprinting.  The value of fingerprints is that they are a permanent record of one's identity.  

They never change, and are on file digitally.  So why should anyone ever need to get fingerprinted more than once???

[mikka1 2]

You better try to explain how come after a) undergoing an extensive check the first time you get your FID (it took me ~4 months to get my initial FID), b) undergoing similarly extensive checks every time you get new permits (~3 months for me with all the same letters sent to my references etc.) ... you still get DELAYED by NICS, presumably in order to run a couple of EXTRA checks on you... just to tell you a day (or a couple of hours) later that you were approved.

 

This is just completely and simply beyond my understanding... What the h**l is the reason of issuing those P2Ps at all if you STILL need to undergo another check at POS? (I am asking about the *real* practical reason, not the one we all know about)

[Burns 16]

You better try to explain how come after a) undergoing an extensive check the first time you get your FID (it took me ~4 months to get my initial FID), b) undergoing similarly extensive checks every time you get new permits (~3 months for me with all the same letters sent to my references etc.) ... you still get DELAYED by NICS, presumably in order to run a couple of EXTRA checks on you... just to tell you a day (or a couple of hours) later that you were approved.

 

This is just completely and simply beyond my understanding... What the h**l is the reason of issuing those P2Ps at all if you STILL need to undergo another check at POS? (I am asking about the *real* practical reason, not the one we all know about)

 

This still blows my mind and I will never understand the reason for this process in this state.

[deerpark 83]

I wanted to see how long a background check would take. 

 

So I recently ordered one with the fingerprints.

 

Got the results in 2 weeks...

 

 

[Contrvlr 17]

This is just completely and simply beyond my understanding... What the h**l is the reason of issuing those P2Ps at all if you STILL need to undergo another check at POS?

Simple really, registration

[HBecwithFn7 296]

Simple really, registration

And it even says so, on the very form itself - "Permit to Purchase a Handgun and Form of Register"

[mikka1 2]

I still don't *really* buy it :-)

When you buy a handgun in NJ you still go through "NJ-powered" NICS over the phone / online.

ATF form contains all the data on the specific handgun you are buying.

It is (at least from outside-in perspective) much easier to gather data centrally in a digital form than go through hundreds of P2P copies, sometimes with terrible handwriting, to compile what can be much easier compiled using NICS checks.

I seriously don't get the point of "paper" P2Ps at least for sales through FFLs...

[HBecwithFn7 296]

I still don't *really* buy it :-)

When you buy a handgun in NJ you still go through "NJ-powered" NICS over the phone / online.

ATF form contains all the data on the specific handgun you are buying.

It is (at least from outside-in perspective) much easier to gather data centrally in a digital form than go through hundreds of P2P copies, sometimes with terrible handwriting, to compile what can be much easier compiled using NICS checks.

I seriously don't get the point of "paper" P2Ps at least for sales through FFLs...

 

The P2P is issued and collected (normally) by the "local PD" (or local NJSP Barracks) of the registrant. That's their record. I don't believe the local PD is part of any NICS checking at the point of purchase. Thus, they wouldn't even know you purchased a weapon if they didn't receive their copy of the P2P at some later point from the FFL, unless the NJ NICS process also sent them an alert, somehow. Not sure how, though. I don't think the local PD or P2P info. is input for a NJ NICS check (can FFL's here verify please?)...

 

So, the P2P is the local PD's registration data point. NICS (including NJ NICS), I believe is simply the final check of eligibility for a weapon (mostly for the FFL's benefit) before the weapon is physically handed over.

[Mr.Stu 1,919]

It is really simple. The purpose of the multiple layers of permits and checks discourages many people from becoming firearms owners. This is seen as a good thing by the powers that be.

 

Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[PK90 3,570]

The complicated and lengthy FPID and P2P process is wasteful. The State of NJ can save millions of dollars and have the same record keeping system by changing the following:

 

1. Do away with current FPID and P2P process at local level

2. Only require a Government Issued Photo ID to purchase a firearm

3. All firearm transfers go through a dealer [PK90 covers head]

4. NICS is run through the FBI, not the NJSP

5. Quad Permit is given to dealer to fill out to be sent to NJSP

 

BTW, no specific firearm info is given to NICS. All info is kept with dealer on the 4473.

 

[HBecwithFn7 296]

The complicated and lengthy FPID and P2P process is wasteful. The State of NJ can save millions of dollars and have the same record keeping system by changing the following:

 

1. Do away with current FPID and P2P process at local level

3. Only require a Government Issued Photo ID to purchase a firearm

3. All firearm transfers go through a dealer [PK90 covers head]

4. NICS is run through the FBI, not the NJSP

5. Quad Permit is given to dealer to fill out to be sent to NJSP

One concern in re: item 3).... eh... 2) I think... - If there must be a "firearm owner" designation on that Govt. ID I'd have an issue, as many others (whom I'd not want to know I am a gun owner) demand that govt. ID as poof of identity. I'd prefer a separate card.

 

BTW, no specific firearm info is given to NICS. All info is kept with dealer on the 4473.

Just as easy for the ATF to come in and photo capture the book anyway, no?  Certainly of the big Internet dealers, etc....  

 

 

[PK90 3,570]

This is not an ideal process. It is one that the State could live with.

 

State: Millions of dollars are saved, and all handguns are still registered.

 

People: No P2P or FPID waiting period.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.

 

 

[Polak 3]

Here's my take on it. They do this to discourage people from applying. To have some "calm down" time (although you probably own multiple guns already). There's no way they can be making money from this especially to cover the costs of operation.

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot 358]

"The power to tax is the power to destroy". You can kill any right or freedom if you layer enough bureaucracy, paperwork, or taxes on it.

[dachu3 0]

Since the NICS is electronic, NSA captures all the communication and stores it. 

Therefore, a national registry already exists but is not officially legal.

That's my take on it.

[Blacksmythe 71]

I think they role Yahtzee dice to determine the length of time for things.

[mikka1 2]

Since the NICS is electronic, NSA captures all the communication and stores it. 

Therefore, a national registry already exists but is not officially legal.

That's my take on it.

Well, that's what I pretty much wanted to say in message 16 above, but you clearly put it in a more explicit way, LOL )

[dachu3 0]

Maybe it is shared with BATFE or not..  We just don't know..  it is very easy to share a database with any of the federal/state agencies as it is electronic. 

 

Also, if you purchase anything privately and then announce it via phone/forum/facebook/etc about it, then it's also probably put on the list. 

 

Pretty Orwellian, ha?

[PK90 3,570]

Put your tin foil hats away. No place for it here. As stated earlier, there is no firearm information given out during a NICS check. There is no data base kept for long guns by the Feds or the NJSP. Throw out your COEs and permits. There is no requirement to keep them. Yes, the NJSP keeps a record of maybe half of the handguns that change hands by NJ residents. That is it.

[younggun93 5]

I just applied for one, and i did it online and the back ground check cost me $20?

does that sound right? I thought they were only $5 per permit?

[ogfarmer 138]

no, the background check was $18 money order but now online adds a $2 convience charge, individual permits cost $2 each when you pick them up