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Gus

Permanently Modify Magazines To Accept Less Rounds

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In my opinion, if u have something like a 30 rd AR mag and u physically cut the box of the mag down to the point that the box cannot FIT any more than 15 rounds, that would SEEM to be permanent. Though with a welder there's quite a lot you could actually do.

 

I knew a guy that made a 15 rd k98 Mauser for instance.

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just as an example of how the debate / interpretation goes back and forth on this subject.

 

In the link provided, the poster showed how he riveted the mag, and then a few posts later someone 

posted that he should have sealed the base plate.

Well even if you were to weld the base plate - you could easily drill out the rivet, so to some (not all)

the rivet would not be considered a "Permanent fix".

 

One of the main issues I have with the "Permanent" part of the interpretation is that you can legally

purchase and posses a 15rd mag from several well know mfg's. like CZ, S&W, ect. and simply open

it up and snip off the bottom of the follower and get 16-17 round in that mag.

 

The point being, there are no mags that I know of that are permanent if someone has some time & some tools.

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Ok first thing you need a magazine.... load it with 15 rounds and measure where the follower ends..take a piece of 1/4 plexi glass and cut it to the size that you measured before... now insert into mag, under the follower and try to load more then 15 rounds.. if it works trace it and make more. I use a small screw with a touch of super glue and screw it through the base plate to attach the plexi glass insert..now install put some jb weld or expoxy on the baseplate and call it done... i have done this to glock, ar, ak, sig and 308 pmags....

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Like I said, If we can not be convinced that permanent is possible, then no one will be convinced.

 

I don't like skirting the law, so I will just toss out the 15 rounders, should the need arise.

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Ok first thing you need a magazine.... load it with 15 rounds and measure where the follower ends..take a piece of 1/4 plexi glass and cut it to the size that you measured before... now insert into mag, under the follower and try to load more then 15 rounds.. if it works trace it and make more. I use a small screw with a touch of super glue and screw it through the base plate to attach the plexi glass insert..now install put some jb weld or expoxy on the baseplate and call it done... i have done this to glock, ar, ak, sig and 308 pmags....

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In the opinion of the NJAG, "permanent altered" means not having a pin or block that can be removed, that would allow the capacity to exceed what the mag was designed to hold, 15 rounds.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.

 

 

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Pk get a base plate off that has a ton of epoxy on it... with out destroying the mag... ive tried and couldnt even tried heat and burned up the mag... metal ar mags i jb weld and rivet the base plate and the jb weld the outer diameter of the rivet... if i habe any that I havent sold yet ill take a pic. Benefit of owning a house.in pa haha.

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permanently modded IMO means a finished product that would likely be destroyed if tried to be reverted back to large capacity.. obviously you can add parts to anything to make it work.. but then it is not the modified product anymore... it is a new different magazine made from parts.. 

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I have cut down standard capacity AK mags (all work was done in PA), to hold 15 rounds or less, then used a dremil and vice to bend new lips on the bottom of the mag to hold the regular base plate. It can be taken apart like a regular mag, and would be very difficult to make it hold more without the addition of another mag body. I dont see how that wouldnt be considered permanently altered.

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I have cut down standard capacity AK mags (all work was done in PA), to hold 15 rounds or less, then used a dremil and vice to bend new lips on the bottom of the mag to hold the regular base plate. It can be taken apart like a regular mag, and would be very difficult to make it hold more without the addition of another mag body. I dont see how that wouldnt be considered permanently altered.

 

 

I agree completely.. and to me that is the intention of the law... or with polymer mags some change that is irreversible (think epoxy, or some form of cut down mag) 

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Why doin't you tell us what your idea is?

 

 

It would seem....a better use of time to just ask if what your tying to do would actually work.. instead of tying to find the handful of people who modify mags outside of NJ and see if what they do is similar to your idea.

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Yeah Gus, plus it's the internet and sarcasm is rampant. Your original question explicitly, the answer will not be found here. Jack above offers better advice.

 

If the real premise of your question was actually a dive to try to seek a "ya see the law is impossible"... Then yes, the laws are vague. All the gun laws in NJ are vague. Maybe on purpose! It sucks but that's how a lot of legal jargon is. Laws don't state every detail (like a permanent magazine.). For example: there is no statute that states you cannot stab your mother to death with a knife. You can look real hard, but you won't find that statute. You will find a statute that says murder is illegal, and then a lawyer will say that stabbing your mother is murder.

 

So lawmakers write laws WITHOUT all the details on purpose.

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I had some mags modified to 15 by a "gun smith" and it was a pathetic job.  In the long run, do not skimp, but find factory NJ compliant or pay to have the job done right.  You are in effect destroying the resale value of a magazine that can be upwards of $50 or more (unless you sell in NJ). 

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Without getting into specifics (because I don't know if the entire procedure would work, and I don't want anyone getting hurt trying it until I know it would be safe.).

 

The reason I would feel my idea would be permanent, is that part of the process would involve cutting away the side wall of handgun magazines (Say an M&P40), where at least 2 square inches of material would be lost. The entire process to modify it for less rounds would cost me $2, if that.

 

The only way that the mag could ever be returned to its original state would involve cutting out a piece of metal the exact shape and thickness of the piece you originaly cut away, then welding it back onto the mag, grinding it smooth, and painting it to match.

 

By my calculations the time and cost to return the mag back to its original condition would be ridiculous, and most likely would destroy the mag in the process. I can't imagine welding a "patch" of metal onto something as thin as a mag would be easy. Then having to grind it smooth, inside and out! I don't think the mag would survive the process, or that the time and money spent would be worth it.

 

Maybe in some of the larger thicker riffle mags, but not something thin like a M&P mag.

 

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But........I also agree that given an unlimited budget, unlimited supplies, and a lot of talent, SOMEONE would be able to do it.

 

Since we can not be sure what a jury would think, I'm not sure if it would fly.

 

Only if they agree that the modification can not be reversed "WITHIN REASON", would it pass.

 

What one considers reasonable is up for debate, and therefore does not put me in a position to be 100% positive this would be legal.

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A "friend" bought a new handgun with the magazines riveted to accept up to 15 rounds. Don't understand why people would glue the baseplate. Magazines should be cleaned and/or serviced once in a while. Can it be reverted to stock? I suppose, with a drill press and some bits. Probably cheaper to just buy another mag.

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A "friend" bought a new handgun with the magazines riveted to accept up to 15 rounds. Don't understand why people would glue the baseplate. Magazines should be cleaned and/or serviced once in a while. Can it be reverted to stock? I suppose, with a drill press and some bits. Probably cheaper to just buy another mag.

They glue the base because a pinned mag has been openly stated as not satisfying the NJ view on large cap mags...

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But........I also agree that given an unlimited budget, unlimited supplies, and a lot of talent, SOMEONE would be able to do it.

 

Since we can not be sure what a jury would think, I'm not sure if it would fly.

 

Only if they agree that the modification can not be reversed "WITHIN REASON", would it pass.

 

What one considers reasonable is up for debate, and therefore does not put me in a position to be 100% positive this would be legal.

The statement made by NJ is fairly clear...

 

If it is reversible without destroying the mag... That appears to be a no go....

 

People always say "oh well I could weld the mag back together so nothing is irreversible" that is different because you are introducing new materials into the mix... The mag as it sits (a cut down mag for example) can not be reverted back to a large cap mag...

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I have cut down standard capacity AK mags (all work was done in PA), to hold 15 rounds or less, then used a dremil and vice to bend new lips on the bottom of the mag to hold the regular base plate. It can be taken apart like a regular mag, and would be very difficult to make it hold more without the addition of another mag body. I dont see how that wouldnt be considered permanently altered.

Fishpaw,

Do you still have those pictures and the specs on those? I thought I saw you post them a long time ago on arfcom but some of the pictures don't load anymore

Thanks!

Carl.

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Fishpaw,

Do you still have those pictures and the specs on those? I thought I saw you post them a long time ago on arfcom but some of the pictures don't load anymore

Thanks!

Carl.

Im not sure if I still have them. I did post a tutorial on ArfCom years ago. Let me see if I can find it again.

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Once again guys, this topic is proof that no one can agree on a definitive answer for this issue. If this went to a jury, it could go either way, and that's not good enough for me to go to jail over.

 

Luckily, all of my mags are in compliance with the current laws. I guess if things change, I will go across the river to PA and give my mags away, then go buy new ones of legal capacity. It stinks, but what else am I going to do?

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When you say all your mags are in compliance, what do you mean? Do you only have 10 round non - converted mags? Do you have any 15 round mags?

 

What your original post asks is for someone to show you pics of what they do to their mags to make them legal. All it would take is for someone to pick apart their method and show how the mod could be undone. I don't blame anyone for not showing you how to do it. Figure it out yourself.

 

It has been the opinion of the NJSP FIU that if a magazine was altered to comply with the 15 round law, it is compliant. A NJ dealer can not just stick a block or a pin in the mag that can be just pulled out by the customer. A non dealer need only follow the law and not the administrative code. One rolls the dice if it is not "permanently altered".

Again I say, any magazine can be made to hold more than it's intended capacity. Even the '94-'04 Bushmaster 10 round AR mags could be made to hold 15 rounds. :D Hell, an unmodified 10 round metal AR mag could hold 18 if loaded from the bottom.

 

Any mag that you have can be altered to a larger capacity.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.

 

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I have 15 round factory mags.

 

And for the reasons you specified above, I am not going to modify to 10 if and when the laws change here. I am just going to buy factory 10 round mags.

 

Simple, easy, no jail time.

 

Cost is a different matter.

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