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mikka1

*hypothetical question* - 2 ranges and "deviation" en route

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I know that such a question is too hypothetical to be specifically reflected in any law or even case law. I also know that there is no set-in-stone definition of what "reasonable deviation" is, but I am mostly interested in your opinion on a practical situation.

 

Let's say you have two favorite ranges - one very much tailored to rifle / shotgun shooting (long range, trap/skeet etc.) and another one to pistol action shooting (moving targets etc.).

They are both quite far from your home (let's say, at least an hour drive), but pretty close to each other (10-15 mins drive).

You pretty much have only 1 day in a week that you want to shoot both your shotguns/rifles and your pistols.

 

Early morning you pack ALL your stuff to your trunk and go to Range 1. You open your trunk, get your shotgun, shells and go shoot some clays.

After shooting clays for an hour you decide that this was pretty much it for that day... with a shotgun. You pack your shotgun back to the trunk, get into the car, drive another 15 minutes to another range, open a trunk, get a range bag with your pistols, go and shoot them for another 2 hours.

After that you pack pistols back and go home.

 

You can effectively replace "2 ranges" with two specific events (let's say, some shotgun shooting in the morning and IDPA match in the evening in another location).

 

Does this scenario raise any particular red flags (I clearly understand WHAT kind of flags, LOL) and what is the riskiest part of such a journey? I guess you will probably have some issues if your bag with handguns is stolen from your trunk while you shooting clays, but other than that I don't really see any other chances to get busted...

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I see no problems. Either stop is a range. I don't believe the law goes in to detail about having to be a pistol range. Honestly me personally I could give a crap. Both stops are a range as far as I'm concerned. I know there will be people who freak out over this one. Enjoy your day and don't drive like an ass. Problem solved

 

 

 

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So even if the first range is clearly marked as "Shotguns only, no pistols or rifles permitted" and pretty much everyone knows it you still don't see an issue with the fact, that I *can not* practice shooting with my handgun there, but I still have it in my trunk at the moment I come to a range?

 

Not trying to stretch it, but if I come to an archery range and then to a pistol range, am I also fine as both of them are "ranges"?

 

(Personally I fully agree with all said above, so I'm glad that other people think the same way :-) )

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The law only says that you must be going to or from a range, or place of target practice. It doesn't say where you have to be coming from. So if you go from one range to another you're good.

 

I did exactly that last weekend. Went from an indoor range to an outdoor one. People do that all the time. No laws broken. 

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You could even go to a third or fourth range to play a gun game, meet someone, buy parts, mount parts, test ammo, have a meal at Woodland Park Range's cafe, etc.  From before sun-up to long after dusk, there is NO limit to the number of ranges you could sequentially and consecutively visit in the 21 Counties of the great state of NJ........

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You could even go to a third or fourth range to play a gun game, meet someone, buy parts, mount parts, test ammo, have a meal at Woodland Park Range's cafe, etc.  From before sun-up to long after dusk, there is NO limit to the number of ranges you could sequentially and consecutively visit in the 21 Counties of the great state of NJ........

Oops, and if at least one range is in the Commonwealth of PA everything breaks down?

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Oops, and if at least one range is in the Commonwealth of PA everything breaks down?

 

NO!  You simply start all over again, like a ball in a pin-ball machine, lol!  Stop borrowing trouble and just buy ammo!!!!!!!

 

That is unless you ARE the Droids they're lookin' for, lol!

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OK, OK, I stop :))))

No, seriously, I do it all the time as well, but almost every time I talk to someone (at the range, gun shop etc) I get some new pieces of information (of which at least 90% is usually BS) that makes me rethink all (or some parts) I know about gun laws again... Just wanted to double check with reasonable people here, that's it :)

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That was a really long way of asking if it's OK to go from home to more than one range, and back home.

 

And as others have noted, of course it is. Oh, but make sure you don't stop for coffee during your long day of shooting.

 

Not exactly, at least in my understanding. My main point with quite a long example was that the first range is the one where you can not practice handgun shooting due to the range regulations. That said, from the *practical* (not legal!) standpoint coming to such a range with handguns is the same as coming to a fishing pond, top of the mountain or a museum. From the legal point of view, as I understood, it is still a range and nobody gives a f**k if you could have used a handgun there or not.

 

Don't worry, after getting some food for thoughts this weekend at Shongum I have more dumb questions like this one, LOL :-) I just thought if I ask them at once, I will be outright banned for stupidity :)))

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Here's my biggest problem with anyone concerned about the "reasonable deviation" thing...

How in the name of Leland Yee will the POLICE know you're transporting to possibly jack you up for any kind of weapons offense?

Are you planning on driving like a total chode while out and about with a trunk full of guns?

Do you intend on getting into so horrific an accident that your trunk spills its contents all over the road?

Are you going to spill your guts to the first cop you see, confessing to an arsenal in your possession?

If none of the above, then chill. Big Brother is not watching you (yet.) Take off the tin foil hat and go enjoy your day.

 

/rant

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The law says "directly to or from any target range" so you are covered going from range to range - you are going directly from AND to a target range.  Ultra compliance!

 

Note it says "any" target range, not target range whose rules allow that particular type of firearm.

 

I think if you read the statute, you are covered even if you go to the target range when it is closed.  Doesn't say the range has to be open for business, or that you have to get your stuff out and actually shoot there. 

 

That is why, when returning from PA with a pistol in your car, it makes a certain New Jersey sense to drive to a public range parking lot near the border (such as Heritage Firearms off 78, Ready Aim Fire off the PA Turnpike, etc) - whether or not the range is open - before crossing the border back into NJ on your way home.  Then you are traveling "directly from a target range" for your return trip in NJ to your house in NJ. 

 

Of course, to do so would be ridiculous, but the law is ridiculous.  If the law says do jumping jacks or it is a felony, you do jumping jacks.

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You can drive to a new range from an old range in an infinite loop and you would be OK under NJ exemptions. You can then break the loop by going directly home or other "reasonable deviations" like being abducted by aliens. :shok:

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There's one scenario where I wouldn't feel comfortable doing this:

Bringing pistols to a WMA with the intention of going to a pistol range before/after.

 

Not saying it's illegal (or legal). But the possibility of having a CO asking to look at my guns, ammo and hunting license when I'm going in my trunk, knowing there's no handguns allowed at those ranges, makes me a little itchy.

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Here's my biggest problem with anyone concerned about the "reasonable deviation" thing...

 

...

Do you intend on getting into so horrific an accident that your trunk spills its contents all over the road?

 

Nobody ever plans on being in an accident or getting injured, but the risk still exists. It is a risk-benefit decision, including any potential legal consequences, even if you don't make it consciously.

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The law says "directly to or from any target range" so you are covered going from range to range - you are going directly from AND to a target range. Ultra compliance!

 

Note it says "any" target range, not target range whose rules allow that particular type of firearm.

 

I think if you read the statute, you are covered even if you go to the target range when it is closed. Doesn't say the range has to be open for business, or that you have to get your stuff out and actually shoot there.

 

That is why, when returning from PA with a pistol in your car, it makes a certain New Jersey sense to drive to a public range parking lot near the border (such as Heritage Firearms off 78, Ready Aim Fire off the PA Turnpike, etc) - whether or not the range is open - before crossing the border back into NJ on your way home. Then you are traveling "directly from a target range" for your return trip in NJ to your house in NJ.

 

Of course, to do so would be ridiculous, but the law is ridiculous. If the law says do jumping jacks or it is a felony, you do jumping jacks.

This is a great example of why things are out of control in this state. You are federal allowed to remove any of your guns from this state. So how is it any of the states business where you go when you leave this state. Why do you have to stop at a range? Maybe your coming from family in PA and you were shooting on their property. If I go to PA I usually am carrying concealed. I could give a crap about stopping at a range parking lot just to make it "legit". Don't over complicate things and make this state any more retarded.

 

 

 

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So even if the first range is clearly marked as "Shotguns only, no pistols or rifles permitted" and pretty much everyone knows it you still don't see an issue with the fact, that I *can not* practice shooting with my handgun there, but I still have it in my trunk at the moment I come to a range?

 

Not trying to stretch it, but if I come to an archery range and then to a pistol range, am I also fine as both of them are "ranges"?

 

(Personally I fully agree with all said above, so I'm glad that other people think the same way :-) )

I thought your original post was bupkes but then I thought about it.

 

Guys, we've argued about less sensible stuff than this!

 

Are handguns exempt at a bow-exclusive range? Could I drive to Wittingham (five minutes away) with my shotgun and handguns, launch a few clays, pack up, and drive to Cherry Ridge to shoot my handguns? How about, ditto scenario, that shotgun range on 206 in Chester?

 

I think OP has a point.

 

Not that you'd get caught, but what if you did...?

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