Jump to content
Oleg

fid to look at gun?

Recommended Posts

The problem is you are not buying enough guns (LOL).  I visit my main LGS so often, for guns, ammo, etc that they know me by name and most of the sales reps don't bother asking for an FID.  Now, on occasion there are some that don't remember me and they do ask, but that is rare.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see LGS's doing this more than, say, an FFL or a public range that also offers gun sales.  (although, not all ranges that sell guns will allow you to handle randomly)..  Fact is, not all people that go into an LGS are gun owners or even shooters, so the chances of someone that has absolutely no knowledge of firearms are greater.  If someone who is a "gun person" is in that same store and is at the counter talking to someone, and a "noob" (for lack of better word) starts looking at guns and decides that they want to flail the thing around cuz they dont know proper gun safety etiquette (i.e. sweeping, etc), that gun person is going to get REALLY mad (well, annoyed at least) at that noob for doing so..  Someone with an FID is more likely to know how to properly handle a gun (now, note that i didnt say "is definitely") and thus will keep it pointed in the proper direction, etc.  A range employee will also be more likely to point out how to properly handle a gun to someone who has no knowledge than a random LGS employee (again, a generalization, but you get the idea). 

 

I dont necessarily have a problem with a store requiring an FID to handle guns.  It's their right to do so, as its their business to run.  Will they lose a few customers because of it?  Yeah, probably..  However, if they push it further than that and require a P2P in order to handle a handgun, then I have a bigger problem with that.  Given the length of time its taking to get the P2P these days, if I went into a LGS and wanted to look at a pistol and they said no because I didnt have a P2P in hand, I would tell them to f*ck off and would never go back in there. 

 

At the end of the day, as everyone else has said, its not a law, but typically a store policy.  More protection for themselves I guess.  Whether or not you choose to go to a store like that is 100% your decision.  For someone just starting out, its not ideal.. However, considering you need to have an FID to buy ammo within the state, having an FID to actually handle a gun doesn't seem like quite as big a deal (to me).  Others obviously feel different. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again what about the virgins I referenced before? How much of a turn off will it be when they get told "you can't touch unless you have a permit or FOID card", especially if the counter jockey acts like a class A dickhole. We need these new people to WANT to buy; I have enough problems getting some of them over their psychological "scars" that have kept them away from guns (or getting them past down right hatred); I sure don't need some counter guy ruining all that hard work. What about the walk-in's that have no one to help start them down the path of firearms ownership and just walk in the front door? In many cases just the sheer act of OPENING that door is a massive mental leap... telling them "no you can't touch until you get a card" just feels like a terrible way to run a business.

 

I agree that holding on to a D/L is a much better way of dealing with virgins. Having a policy for dealing with and encouraging virgins and not pissing down their backs and telling them it's raining should be the goal of every shop out there. 1 new person isn't 1... it's 10.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

However, considering you need to have an FID to buy ammo within the state...

point of order... that's not 100% true.

you do NOT have to have the card to buy ammo... IF you have a completed permit within the last 6 months and present it at time of ammo purchase. the card is only required to buy HANDGUN ammo if you do not have the aforementioned permit or wish to buy a long gun. it's not required to buy shotgun ammo for example. (I was going to also say other long gun ammo, but not having bought such retail I can't speak to that and don't feel like searching the regs for the answer right now.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it may be..  but its their business..  maybe they feel a bit more "covered" by only allowing people with FID's..  But in this day & age and the scrutiny the entire industry faces, maybe they are just CYA'ing.. 

 

I fully get your point..  and when i was just starting out, I would have probably felt annoyed if i couldnt look at a gun because i didnt have one.  Maybe since I have one, it doesnt seem like as big a deal to me now. 

 

 

and RE: ammo, OK, sorry, I thought we were talking about handguns..  true, you don't "technically" need it to buy SG or rifle ammo...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

when I first got my FPID, I remembered ALL the stores that would NOT let me look at the guns I was going to buy...and I have NOT been to those stores again...

What he said. Was told at the Heratage Guild I needed to leave my fid on the counter while looking at a gun . He told me it was the law , I told him show me the law. Guess what he could not, then his story kept switching. Finally he said it was store policy. I said thanks for lie and goodby , have. Ever been back since . I do not people that will lie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a gun store on rte 31 in flemington that will not let you hold a pistol unless you have your p2p with you. Even if you have your fid with you. I asked if thats a new law and he said thats always been the law. I asked what statue and he pointed to a sign on the law with a nj statue. I didnt bother to look it up. But why lie ? Just say its store policy. We have enough people in govt lying and not knowing the law. But a lgs. I will never never buy a weapon from them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it may be.. but its their business.. maybe they feel a bit more "covered" by only allowing people with FID's.. But in this day & age and the scrutiny the entire industry faces, maybe they are just CYA'ing..

 

I fully get your point.. and when i was just starting out, I would have probably felt annoyed if i couldnt look at a gun because i didnt have one. Maybe since I have one, it doesnt seem like as big a deal to me now.

 

 

and RE: ammo, OK, sorry, I thought we were talking about handguns.. true, you don't "technically" need it to buy SG or rifle ammo...

There's nothing technical about it. You don't need it to by shotgun and riffle ammo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sooo. We are all in agreement that no FPID or P2P is required by law to handle a firearm at a gun shop. It is store policy or an employee making it up. RIght? So let it be written, so let it be done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't lie and say it's the law.

IF you have it as "store policy" fine, but don't be a chode about it and don't be surprised when it pisses people off.

 

Plus how do you justify it if you also have a range and you RENT guns to people who don't own or have an FID card and don't come with someone who has one?

 

As for shops that don't let you buy unless you have a permit in hand I don't get why they're limiting their potential sales... especially since it looks like various locales are coming around to getting the paperwork done in a timely fashion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always thought it was more of a sales tactic.

 

If you're looking at any firearm, and you don't know what a card is....you're a lookey-loo without a clue, and its going to be a discussion, not a sale.

 

If you're looking at any firearm, and you DO have a card, but you don't have it with you....you're still a lookey-loo kicking it around, but at least you have a clue about how things are in NJ.

 

If you're looking at a long gun and you HAVE your card....we're talking prices.

 

If you're looking at a pistol and you HAVE your PTP...we're talking prices.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again what about the virgins I referenced before? How much of a turn off will it be when they get told "you can't touch unless you have a permit or FOID card", especially if the counter jockey acts like a class A dickhole. We need these new people to WANT to buy; I have enough problems getting some of them over their psychological "scars" that have kept them away from guns (or getting them past down right hatred); I sure don't need some counter guy ruining all that hard work. What about the walk-in's that have no one to help start them down the path of firearms ownership and just walk in the front door? In many cases just the sheer act of OPENING that door is a massive mental leap... telling them "no you can't touch until you get a card" just feels like a terrible way to run a business.

 

 

This is my whole point. My problem isn't about it being a convenience issue, my problem is that it's a practice that discourages firearm ownership, and this isn't very good for sentiment toward legal gun owners in NJ. Obviously, more people will be concerned with anti-gun legislation if more people are gun owners! And somehow guns stores in 49 other states manage to stay in business without requiring prospective gun buyers to prove eligibility prior to buying a gun.

 

And you don't need to handle guns to be a royal pain in the ass to a store. I stopped by Ottomanelli's one night just to browse before heading to GFH. This guy was there bombarding the two guys behind the counter with questions "Which is the best carry gun? I heard the Sig Sauer P229 was the best carry gun ever. No I don't have a CCW permit. Is a Sig Sauer better than a Wilson Combat 1911? What makes the Sig Sauer such a great gun? Is it true that a .50 cal Desert Eagle isn't good for home defense because of the recoil?" Just listening to the guy was annoying me, but bless the hearts of those two guys, and they entertained his questions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always thought it was more of a sales tactic.

 

If you're looking at any firearm, and you don't know what a card is....you're a lookey-loo without a clue, and its going to be a discussion, not a sale.

 

If you're looking at any firearm, and you DO have a card, but you don't have it with you....you're still a lookey-loo kicking it around, but at least you have a clue about how things are in NJ.

 

If you're looking at a long gun and you HAVE your card....we're talking prices.

 

If you're looking at a pistol and you HAVE your PTP...we're talking prices.

Fine. Given the poor state of firearms ownership across demographics, who do you propose is going to educate the "lookey-loo without a clue" then? It seems like more counter people just want to sell guns than take the time to EDUCATE those who are asking for such an education but don't know where to get it. It's almost as if they don't want to build relationships but just sling product. You can't do that in this environment. We need EVERY SINGLE BODY that comes in the door wanting to learn and to grow, not just buy whatever latest and greatest widget you can slide across the counter. If someone comes in the door and says "I'm interested in buying a gun, what do I do?", don't just tell them to get a card and a P2P and kick them out the door. Educate them on the process, the time frames, the expected delays, and all the requirements. If you have access to a computer and a printer take the 2 minutes to find their town web site and print out the details... most have them now from what I understand. If you don't want to do that get someone else to take care of the customer. If no one there wants to do that then don't complain or cry when the rest of us bash your shop for having shitty customer service.

 

This isn't cars people. The rules and regulations aren't the same, the clients aren't the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not a law, but almost every lgs requires you to have one. While I don't agree with it, you can't really do anything about it. Another reason why I always carry mine.

 

I'd like to see a poll of the NJGF Vendors that require a FPID be exhibited prior to the customer handling a firearm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you're right SOTA.....if you're in the gunseller business, you really do need to educate your customers...all of them.  And there are many that try valiantly to do just that.  

 

But I really do think the shops who want you to "show your FID card" are using it as a sales tactic.  Or CYA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Appears to be store policy. I have been in some that required and some that didn't.

If it is store policy then I am OK with it, basically it is a business decision, if anyone states that it is the law or some kind of regulation then either they don't know the law or they are misleading their patrons.  Either of the latter two are unacceptable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you're right SOTA.....if you're in the gunseller business, you really do need to educate your customers...all of them.  And there are many that try valiantly to do just that.  

 

But I really do think the shops who want you to "show your FID card" are using it as a sales tactic.  Or CYA

 

 

For every shop that valiantly tries to educate new customers (non-gun owners) there are probably 10 that operate like a good ole boys club where new customers (even those that DO have FID cards) get the evil eye when they walk in.

 

Best case, for gun rights, is those customers manage to find a more friendly FFL.  Worst case is they just say screw it and the gun owner population dwindles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree. LGS need to attract more people to become gun owners then turn them away. It is not like in car sales where if one Honda dealership pisses you off, you can go to another one 20 miles away. If you LGS pisses you off, you might not have another GS for 50 miles.

 

I have been to Cheyenne Outfitters and Sportsman's Center more times than I can count and have never once been asked to see my FID card to look at a pistol or rifle. The only time I was asked to show my DL was to purchase ammo, but that was years ago. When did NJ require your FID card to purchase ammo? I never heard of this before.

 

S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I would ask for it too. Actually, I would never run a gun shop because to me the notion of handing guns to strangers is odd to start with, but if I was going to do that I'd like to perform the bare minimum of checks that the person is unlikely to point it at me or run out the door with it. 

 

Somehow they do just fine in the vast majority of other states where you don't need a FID for anything. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It must be new within the last 5 or ten years. I haven't bought ammo in NJ in years.

 

I wouldn't mind "showing" FID to buy handgun ammo (assuming LGS prices are event remotely competitive, which they aren't) but having to "log" all the ammo purchases into another bound book means PA or online vendors will be getting most of my ammo money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...