New Pump-Action AR-15's

[PK90 3,570]

Do you think a pmag could be modified to only fit in this rifle or would it have to be a metal magazine? This idea intrigues me.

Both, but the rifle's magwell will also need to be modified.

[GRIZ 3,369]

The responses to this post prove my point that to many people its all about "the look". That encompasses pinned folding stocks, muzzle brakes that look like a flash suppressor, and 15/30 magazines. To many "the look" is way more important than an AR's most important feature and that is its semi automatic.

[NYMetsFan86 9]

Ill disagree with you that 15/30 mags are made to satisfy "cool" factor. While it is a plus that they look sweet like a normal mag, I find they provide more surface area for the hand to grab and swap then stubby mags. Some like them  for looks, others for function, and I like them for both of those reasons. Ive hard others say they fit better in there belt or molle pouches as well

[Grapeshot 301]

I agree - I don't understand all the love for this. It's a pump action centerfire rifle - pure and simple. It is NOT an AR.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Ill disagree with you that 15/30 mags are made to satisfy "cool" factor. While it is a plus that they look sweet like a normal mag, I find they provide more surface area for the hand to grab and swap then stubby mags. Some like them  for looks, others for function, and I like them for both of those reasons. Ive hard others say they fit better in there belt or molle pouches as well

If you're talking 15/30s vs a 10 rd magazine I agree. A 15/20 on the other hand gives you plenty to grab onto and its easier to block a 20 to 15 than to build an only 15. I don't care for that extra length that doesn't do anything on a 15/30. A 15/20 is more compact. If you buy the right ammo pouches you can carry 15/20s with no problem.

 

I'm not condemning true 30 rd magazines but have always had a few 20 rd mags with me in the military and as a LEO. I don't think 20s are much of a disadvantage in a real fight. I got through one war with 20s and seemed to have made out okay. The enemy had 30s.

[5th4x4 0]

I'm not condemning true 30 rd magazines but have always had a few 20 rd mags with me in the military and as a LEO. I don't think 20s are much of a disadvantage in a real fight. I got through one war with 20s and seemed to have made out okay. The enemy had 30s.

 

I was issued nothing but 20 round mags in the Corps. 

 

And this idea of "function" for a 30 rounder sounds like silly-talk to me. You've got 15 rounds in the mag for crying out loud. So whatever "grab/swap" benefit anyone may think that they're getting from the extra length, the 30 rounder is more cumbersome and off balance than a 20 rounder. And even the 20 rounders feel off balanced to me at times (because they aren't fully loaded).

 

15 rounds is 15 rounds. So if 15 rounds fit into a 20 round mag, then where is the benefit of using a 30 round mag for 15 rounds? They are simply too cumbersome, and harder to carry (without special gear). I'm just not buying the "function" idea when it comes to a 15 round limit for mags.

Maybe an argument can be made for 30 rounds in a 30 round mag, but even then it's cumbersome to carry and handle. Maybe as a first lock & load mag - with 20 rounders as your backups.  

(my opinion of course)  

[NYMetsFan86 9]

. Great point! cant argue with that one bit

[vladtepes 1,060]

I was issued nothing but 20 round mags in the Corps. 

 

And this idea of "function" for a 30 rounder sounds like silly-talk to me. You've got 15 rounds in the mag for crying out loud. So whatever "grab/swap" benefit anyone may think that they're getting from the extra length, the 30 rounder is more cumbersome and off balance than a 20 rounder. And even the 20 rounders feel off balanced to me at times (because they aren't fully loaded).

 

15 rounds is 15 rounds. So if 15 rounds fit into a 20 round mag, then where is the benefit of using a 30 round mag for 15 rounds? They are simply too cumbersome, and harder to carry (without special gear). I'm just not buying the "function" idea when it comes to a 15 round limit for mags.

Maybe an argument can be made for 30 rounds in a 30 round mag, but even then it's cumbersome to carry and handle. Maybe as a first lock & load mag - with 20 rounders as your backups.  

(my opinion of course)  

 

 

with all due respect.. all I shoot are 30 round mags.. I do run a chest rig and the 30s sit perfectly... I dont own anything under 30 so I can not say for sure that the smaller mags would or would not fit.. what I can tell you is that 30s sit with the right amount of room to grab when reloading from a rig... also this noise that they feel off balance is silly... do your mags change balance as you are shooting... what happens when you are shooting a 15 round mag and get down to the last two rounds? is your gun flying all over the place because it is unbalanced?

 

I will agree that having a mag be longer than it needs to for any cool factor or looks factor.. is silly at best... 

 

but with that said I am not convinced reloading from a rig would be ideal with smaller mags.. 

[5th4x4 0]

Btw, I just want to add re the pump action "AR"....

 

I think it's interesting. It is what it is, and it's meant (at least partly) to act as a workaround for gun hating state laws. 

So for purpose I give it an A+

And for style I give it an A+

 

I don't see this as a "poser" AR, I just see it as a cool looking pump version knockoff of one of the most popular semi-autos on the planet. So it's a pump and not a semi-auto... and that's known upfront.

Guns should be fun, so if someone wants it because it's cool, then so bit it. Have fun with it.

 

As for the cool factor of 30 round mags... I feel the same way. If you think it's cool, then have fun with it. 

However I've seen the rigs that guys wear for these 30 rounders - and that's all well and good. But my opinion on the matter is not coming from a range or course perspective, but from a "carry all that crap around for miles and miles" perspective. And as anyone who has had to carry gear like that will tell you, the less cumbersome and shiftable something is, the better. 

But in the range and course world... have fun.

I just see no real functional reasons for it. It's 15 rounds. Half empty. And I already curse that my 20 rounders are 5 rounds short. 

[MidwestPX 172]

Push-pull with a 30rd body is easier than a 20rd body. That alone would be reason for me to use a 15/30 over a 15/20.

[5th4x4 0]

also this noise that they feel off balance is silly... do your mags change balance as you are shooting... what happens when you are shooting a 15 round mag and get down to the last two rounds? is your gun flying all over the place because it is unbalanced?

 

 

I was referring to handling the mags themselves, not while shooting. 

Half-empty mags feel unbalanced (to me). But if you have good a feel for them, then have fun. I only stated that I don't see a function purpose for such a lopsided mag.

[5th4x4 0]

Push-pull with a 30rd body is easier than a 20rd body. That alone would be reason for me to use a 15/30 over a 15/20.

 

Do you actually find 20 rounds hard to push/pull? Our military does fine with them, so I don't understand the trouble that people have with 20 rounders.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I was referring to handling the mags themselves, not while shooting. 

Half-empty mags feel unbalanced (to me). But if you have good a feel for them, then have fun. I only stated that I don't see a function purpose for such a lopsided mag.

 

 

I live in PA.. so I am shooting 30 round functioning mags.. but when I shoot I am not fully loading them so I can not anticipate round count to get faster on reloads.. reacting to the gun being empty and not a repetitive count.. so I am handing 30 round mags that are anywhere from full to almost empty... never had any issues.. 

 

as for lugging ammo.. I have lugged my share of 30 round mags on a few fairly long hikes.. carrying 150 rounds on a chest rig.. with body armor under it.. and a light pack.. the pack was probably the most annoying thing over the heat... the actual ammo weight was never so significant that it was an issue.. I mean dont get me wrong.. gear is heavy... but 30 round.. or 20 round mag bodies are not going to be the difference if the need ever comes up.. you are talking a few extra inches of plastic.. 

 

I do appreciate that you are talking about 30 round mags that can only hold 15... but at the end of the day there is only ONE issue with those... and that is shooting prone.. shooting prone with 30 round mags depending on the target can be annoying... and 20 round mags are definitely better in that situation.. 

[MidwestPX 172]

Do you actually find 20 rounds hard to push/pull? Our military does fine with them, so I don't understand the trouble that people have with 20 rounders.

The military doesn't field 20rd mags in nearly the same quantity as 30rd. The platform was first introduced with 20rd mags but those have been mostly phased out.

 

I find that it's easier to do it with a 30rd body. I hold my mags like a beer can so a 30rd body gives me more contact area with the magazine.

[raz-0 1,259]

I've shot matches with 30 round length bodies, 20 round length, and even stubbier mags.

 

The 30 round bodies are by far easier to manipulate quickly and have less of a screw up factor.

[5th4x4 0]

15/50's would be heaven for you guys ; )

 

Although I gotta say.... easier or not, 20 is NOT hard. But if you like 30's, then have at it. Everyone has their preference.

But please, "easier" (30) vs "easy" (20) is what we're really talking about here. 

You guys are making it sound like you need forceps to remove a conventional size magazine. 

30 is designed for quantity of rounds.... not for ease of push/pull. So with a 15 round limit..................

[5th4x4 0]

I checked with a buddy of mine (active duty). He says that they have been using 30 round METAL mags for about the past 2 years. No more plastic mags. 

 

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I'll add that they hate the metal.

 

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I'll further add that I ONLY had metal mags during my time

 

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I'll further further add that I'm specifically referring to the Marine Corps. I have no idea if it's across all services or not.

[MidwestPX 172]

15/50's would be heaven for you guys ; )

 

Although I gotta say.... easier or not, 20 is NOT hard. But if you like 30's, then have at it. Everyone has their preference.

But please, "easier" (30) vs "easy" (20) is what we're really talking about here. 

You guys are making it sound like you need forceps to remove a conventional size magazine. 

30 is designed for quantity of rounds.... not for ease of push/pull. So with a 15 round limit..................

Not really. I personally dislike the 40rd PMAGs. Monopodding off one is a PITA.

[MidwestPX 172]

I checked with a buddy of mine (active duty). He says that they have been using 30 round METAL mags for about the past 2 years. No more plastic mags. 

 

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I'll add that they hate the metal.

 

===

 

I'll further add that I ONLY had metal mags during my time

 

===

 

I'll further further add that I'm specifically referring to the Marine Corps. I have no idea if it's across all services or not.

There are in excess of 1M PMAGs owned by the various branches of the US military. Drawing them from supply is spotty though. At one point last year, the military came out and said only magazines with NSNs in the current manual of arms were allowed to be used because soldiers were buying subpar mags like Thermolds and Tapcos thinking they were just as good as a PMAG. Some units use PMAGs exclusively while others forbid their use outright.

[vladtepes 1,060]

15/50's would be heaven for you guys ; )

 

Although I gotta say.... easier or not, 20 is NOT hard. But if you like 30's, then have at it. Everyone has their preference.

But please, "easier" (30) vs "easy" (20) is what we're really talking about here. 

You guys are making it sound like you need forceps to remove a conventional size magazine. 

30 is designed for quantity of rounds.... not for ease of push/pull. So with a 15 round limit..................

 

 

just because something is only marginally easier.. does not mean it should be ignored..

 

if all else is close to equal.. handling a mag that has more area to manipulate should not be ignored.. simply because it does not make sense to you.. 

 

 

this is my rig.. with 30 round mags.. 20 round mags are going to be sitting pretty low.. making the ability to pull them harder.. 

not opinion.. fact.. 

 

[5th4x4 0]

There are in excess of 1M PMAGs owned by the various branches of the US military. Drawing them from supply is spotty though. At one point last year, the military came out and said only magazines with NSNs in the current manual of arms were allowed to be used because soldiers were buying subpar mags like Thermolds and Tapcos thinking they were just as good as a PMAG. Some units use PMAGs exclusively while others forbid their use outright.

 

Yeah, supply is not issuing anything but metal right now.

My buddy is USMC (Weapons Platoon in an infantry regiment) and plastic is NOT supplied or permitted. He only mentioned that no one is happy about that. 

(and truth be told, Marines are only happy when they have something to bitch about)

But I'll ask him tomorrow for more details. 

[5th4x4 0]

just because something is only marginally easier.. does not mean it should be ignored..

 

if all else is close to equal.. handling a mag that has more area to manipulate should not be ignored.. simply because it does not make sense to you.. 

 

 

this is my rig.. with 30 round mags.. 20 round mags are going to be sitting pretty low.. making the ability to pull them harder.. 

not opinion.. fact.. 

 

 

That's cool bro. You've got an impressive rig.

But for some reason the pulling and swapping (or push-pull) of mags seems on be taking on different meanings depending upon who is posting here. 

Therefore I'll just revert back to my "have fun and enjoy your guns" statement from earlier.

I have no aversion to "cool" (or "tacti-cool" or whatever other derogatory terms certain purists like to use). This is America (or something similar to it in NJ). So if you're not Military or LEO, then you have the freedom to do whatever you want with your own property(/guns).  

 

As for my own opinion... shoot me.

Just remember that my 20 round mag has as many legal rounds in it as any 30 round mag does in this state ; ) 

[PK90 3,570]

Ant, why the regular Magpuls on Pmags and not the Ranger Plates?

[vladtepes 1,060]

Ant, why the regular Magpuls on Pmags and not the Ranger Plates?

 

 

had them forever... they used to be on AK mags... so when I got into ARs again.. I just swapped them over..