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Court rules against Jersey City permitting requirements

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the job is to determine if. 

 

1. the applicant paid all fees

2. has been fingerprinted

3. filled out the required forms correctly

4. had a background check

5. had no history of mental illness.

 

everything the "job" requires is covered by the existing forms.  

 

everything else falls under unethical tactics.  

 

i get the feeling that you are ok with jersey city's forms although i can't comprehend why.  

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Terrorism, Home Base, extra forms from JC saving the day - sounds like next installment of Die Hard where John McClane will save the world from a Terrorist using the form filled out for a FPID.  Why arent the said Terrorists buying firearms from other free states ?  Is FBI NICS so incompetent that Terrorists legally buy firearms after going through NJ background checks, mental health checks and NICS ?  Only thing that can save all of us from Terrorists are the extra forms from JC ?

 

Really ?  

 

 

 

In all seriousness, I now know why we in NJ deserve what we get.  As someone rightly said, its not Bloomberg, Not liberals, Not politicians, its many of our own from 2A community.

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...

 

i get the feeling that you are ok with jersey city's forms although i can't comprehend why.  

 

Because he got his guns already and it isn't his problem if the extra forms prevent other people from getting theirs.

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Big cities have different recurring crime and terrorism issues then small cities and towns that we know is true. Especially ones that are targeted or close to targeted areas of major crime and terrorism. So the cities PDs need to find a way to get the job done right without overstepping. I dont disagree with you that everyone needs to follow the law even law makers. I don't necessarily disagree with a way to ensure who PD's are giving an FID to are in fact who they say they are. Witch I belive that spirit of the form should be. But calling a job and other unethical tactics to shame, out or discourage law abiding people's rights are an overreach of government. And those types of actions by cities should be punished by removing the person from office who gave the all clear on doing so. Along with the ones knowingly executing an unethical order.

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

NJ's response is to burden an entire state with "safety" bullshit. Even up here where I can drive for miles and only see corn fields and cows

 

A little danger is the price we pay for freedom. Deal with it.

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WOW you guys just took things to new place other then a form issued by one city....

 

NJ's response is to burden an entire state with "safety" bullshit. Even up here where I can drive for miles and only see corn fields and cows

A little danger is the price we pay for freedom. Deal with 

We are talking about individual cities adding new crap not the State get it right... corn and cows are a lot different then a real danger of Gangs Terrorist and drug dealers that's why I think more maybe needed in a city with High turnover and new citizens coming in everyday( but doing so without  Political agenda, and the 2a community and citizens in mind). Cant you see I agree with you!!! come on people.. .... and I do deal with it just fine thank you. I live and work with the "dangers" of freedom everyday I watched the towers go down and have since spent my career working at preventing acts like that on some level and was living and still live across the river from WTC. Don't tell me to deal with the price of freedom..

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It's disappointing to see how anti-gun the JC administration has become(e.g this issue and the exta questions they put in their sourcing bids, etc.). I was born and raised there. 40 years ago this week, I obtained my NJFID in JC. No extra forms, good service by the detective bureau. Times change....

 

JC was always anti gun...........Healy was openly hostile to gun owners.  I don't remember what forms I did for my FID, but I do know they changed after the Heller/McDonald ruling to be less cumbersome, but I reckon Fulop feels otherwise.

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Terrorism, Home Base, extra forms from JC saving the day - sounds like next installment of Die Hard where John McClane will save the world from a Terrorist using the form filled out for a FPID.  Why arent the said Terrorists buying firearms from other free states ?  Is FBI NICS so incompetent that Terrorists legally buy firearms after going through NJ background checks, mental health checks and NICS ?  Only thing that can save all of us from Terrorists are the extra forms from JC ?

 

Really ?  

 

 

 

In all seriousness, I now know why we in NJ deserve what we get.  As someone rightly said, its not Bloomberg, Not liberals, Not politicians, its many of our own from 2A community.

dude you are kidding? I never said forms will save the day,,,,, 

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JC was excellent for me when I lived there and got my FID and P2Ps.  Fast turn around and friendly people.

 

That being said, justifying breaking the law, because it might be a better idea for safety, is not how we do things in the good old US of A.  If there needs to be extra forms, extra checks, whatever, because a city has a particular neeyahd, then that needs to become law. 

 

As others have said, I could not break the law because it made sense to do so at the time, nor should municipalities nor police be able to break the law, even if it is for a perceived "good reason".

 

Put the shoe on the other foot.  Let's say I have to go to a high crime area for some valid reason.  I decide to conceal carry a firearm, even though I do not have a carry permit.  Somehow, the cops come to find out I have a concealed firearm on me.  Do you think they would say, "well, he doesn't have a CCP, but he needed to CC in this case, so he can."?

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Because he got his guns already and it isn't his problem if the extra forms prevent other people from getting theirs.

WOW!! you are getting a bit personal.. and you dont even understand that I agree with you.. 

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JC was excellent for me when I lived there and got my FID and P2Ps.  Fast turn around and friendly people.

 

That being said, justifying breaking the law, because it might be a better idea for safety, is not how we do things in the good old US of A.  If there needs to be extra forms, extra checks, whatever, because a city has a particular neeyahd, then that needs to become law. 

 

As others have said, I could not break the law because it made sense to do so at the time, nor should municipalities nor police be able to break the law, even if it is for a perceived "good reason".

 

Put the shoe on the other foot.  Let's say I have to go to a high crime area for some valid reason.  I decide to conceal carry a firearm, even though I do not have a carry permit.  Somehow, the cops come to find out I have a concealed firearm on me.  Do you think they would say, "well, he doesn't have a CCP, but he needed to CC in this case, so he can."?

Agree! well said!! you are better at explaining yourself them me... that is how I feel about it.. 

as to you question  I think your same logic applies. that is why I hope CCW reciprocity works out. until then it is what it is and we need to keep fighting the good fight.

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WOW!! you are getting a bit personal.. and you dont even understand that I agree with you.. 

 

You stated that you didn't care about an "initial bit of paperwork" and that there were more pressing concerns. Being a former JC resident, those extra requirements beyond those mandated by the state denied me the right of gun ownership, so yes I do take it personal. If I'm misunderstanding something, let me know. 

 

And you're not the only person with "big city" fears. I too watched the WTC crash down from my downtown JC apartment, work in high-rise Manhattan office buildings and wonder what goes through a person's mind before they jump to escape the flames of burning jet fuel, and also saw the thousands of posters from people seeking their missing loved ones "last seen Sept 11 on the 95th floor of the World Trade Center", and regularly commute today through areas that would probably be considered likely targets for future attacks. I just don't think the solution is making people in big cities less free compared to those in more rural areas.

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dude you are kidding? I never said forms will save the day,,,,, 

Then JC doesnt need to violate state law by requiring additional forms, correct ?  They should comply with court ruling and follow the law.

I personally appreciate of your involvement (at any level) in making the place, state, country secure. But the sense that somehow some city, town, state need "more" protection, process or requirements than others doesnt make sense. In fact, it is that sense of being  "special" or being under a threat (more so than rest of the country or world) that leads to infringements and in severe cases out right dictatorship. 

 

What works for NJ should work for JC, no additional forms or processes required. In fact, what works for free states should work for NJ, no additional processes, forms required. 

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Then JC doesnt need to violate state law by requiring additional forms, correct ?  They should comply with court ruling and follow the law.

I personally appreciate of your involvement (at any level) in making the place, state, country secure. But the sense that somehow some city, town, state need "more" protection, process or requirements than others doesnt make sense. In fact, it is that sense of being  "special" or being under a threat (more so than rest of the country or world) that leads to infringements and in severe cases out right dictatorship. 

 

What works for NJ should work for JC, no additional forms or processes required. In fact, what works for free states should work for NJ, no additional processes, forms required. 

I agree...  

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Because he got his guns already and it isn't his problem if the extra forms prevent other people from getting theirs.

Absolutely! Even after the lawsuit requires JC to comply with the law, they won't and if you object your paperwork will simply be lost. Where were these turds when I was confronted by a mugger some time back in JC and had to handle the situation myself?

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Absolutely! Even after the lawsuit requires JC to comply with the law, they won't and if you object your paperwork will simply be lost. Where were these turds when I was confronted by a mugger some time back in JC and had to handle the situation myself?

is this still directed at me? I am confused. ..

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

 

 

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dude you are kidding? I never said forms will save the day,,,,,

Then what's the point if them. The background check and finger prints should suffice for identifying who is who.

 

 

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WOW you guys just took things to new place other then a form issued by one city....

 

We are talking about individual cities adding new crap not the State get it right... corn and cows are a lot different then a real danger of Gangs Terrorist and drug dealers that's why I think more maybe needed in a city with High turnover and new citizens coming in everyday( but doing so without  Political agenda, and the 2a community and citizens in mind). Cant you see I agree with you!!! come on people.. .... and I do deal with it just fine thank you. I live and work with the "dangers" of freedom everyday I watched the towers go down and have since spent my career working at preventing acts like that on some level and was living and still live across the river from WTC. Don't tell me to deal with the price of freedom..

 

But that's just it.

 

Let's take one of our favorite topics - carry permits. The argument against "shall issue" in NJ is population density. Problem is, that we do not have that issue up here in Sussex County, or maybe down deep South Jersey. But they have one law for carry permits statewide where you have to show justifiable need. So we are equally denied as someone in a dense area, say Newark or JC. Compare that to a state like MA or CA. In California at least in some of the more rural counties you can get a carry permit (even before the Peruta decision). In MA if you are away from the Boston area you can get a LTC. Even in NY if you are outside of NYC you can get a carry permit easily. 

 

Meanwhile in NJ it's one restrictive law for the whole damn state. See what I mean? 

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The best part of the above argument is that none of the terrorists involved in the WTC tragedy, filled out any extra forms from JC pd. They bought a few utility knives from homedepot. Does the Jersey City mayor require a background check, fingerprints, call to your job, two references, before you can buy a pack of razor blades from a hardware store? Its amazing how they sell people this kind of propaganda BS, and the gullible people lacking any common sense believe that their safety is now more secure. Give me a break. The next Sex Money Murder Bloods initiation, I'm sure will involve someone getting their face slashed open by a razor blade. Its common practice to get into the gang. And will probably be in JC, or some other cesspool like it. Much better chance of that victim being you, than being a victim of terrorism. Perpetrated with a firearm legally bought in NJ by a JC resident terrorist. If your a terrorist living in JC and you need a firearm, all you have to do is ask a Home Boy on any corner. Pretty sure someone will sell you a Highpoint by the end of the day.

 

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If JC doesn't comply with the court, isn't that considered contempt of court?

 

They could ask for the order to be stayed pending appeal. If that is granted they don't have to comply.

 

But as of now, they have to comply, or yes, they could be held in contempt. 

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I know i'm late to this but goddamn that priorities list is retarded. I always assume local governments play the homie hook-up game, but to see it in writing is just WTF. Who the F would think that was right to come up with a formal policy of putting the average citizen last and giving the homie hook-up to employees?

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I know i'm late to this but goddamn that priorities list is retarded. I always assume local governments play the homie hook-up game, but to see it in writing is just WTF. Who the F would think that was right to come up with a formal policy of putting the average citizen last and giving the homie hook-up to employees?

 

They do it because they believe they can get away with it. Who is going to argue that the cops urgently need guns, moreso than the average citizen? 

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They do it because they believe they can get away with it. Who is going to argue that the cops urgently need guns, moreso than the average citizen? 

 

I would argue it. Thats what issued weapons are for. No permits or laws to deal with. And If we are talking about rifles I don't know any officers that are allowed to use privately purchased rifles on duty. I think most departments in NJ don't even issue or use rifles for patrol officers. So we are only talking about their puchases in a civilian capacity.

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I love how Jersey City thinks they are some important place in NJ and the world. Just because you are across the river from Manhattan, does not mean you have anywhere near the status of Manhattan. Jersey City is more like the place where Manhattan's raw sewage goes (think septic tank). The city, mayor, and pd are a joke. They all have egos bigger than life, when there is absolutley nothing there to be proud of. Its been a ghetto for many many years and will continue to be that way forever.

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Generally, its a pissing contest to the bottom.  NSA, CIA, DHS are in pissing contest with each other. FBI wants to be those things. TSA wants to be FBI. NYPD wants to be FBI. JPD wants to be NYPD.  Beauty of all this is, DHS is dishing out free money (courtesy Patriot Act and Our Taxes) arming the PDs to teeth.  With tons of money available in security and weapons contracts, its bringing a commercial angle of blackmailing manufacturers who compete for those contracts.

 

"I will award contracts only if you dont sell those bad black things to citizens".

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Absolutely! Even after the lawsuit requires JC to comply with the law, they won't and if you object your paperwork will simply be lost. Where were these turds when I was confronted by a mugger some time back in JC and had to handle the situation myself?

 

Agreed. I can't wait till Mayor Full-Flop loses in NJ Supreme Court. What he is doing is ILLEGAL!

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