how to use Sweeney's "no CCW" tweet to our advantage

[njpilot 671]

If the purpose is to prevent people from Philly from getting permits, then NH recognizing NJ as a no issue state shouldn't be a problem. NH would still require a Philly resident to have a LTCF, because PA is not a no-issue state.

 

i have no reason to believe she hates us. Just sees us as convenient means to her political ends. Since she can't go after PA gun owners, we're the easiest way for her to establish her liberal credentials in preparation for a national run. This is similar to what Janet Reno did. She built her law and order cred by ruining people's lives by framing them as child molesters. Hateful? No. Evil. Yes. I don't believe in hell, but if I did, that's where they're both headed.

As bad as we are, we are not a "no issue state".

 

If NH says to get their permit you need a permit from you're own state, that is for everyone, not just this state or that state.

[wooly bugger 1]

As bad as we are, we are not a "no issue state".

 

If NH says to get their permit you need a permit from you're own state, that is for everyone, not just this state or that state.

We're not a de jure no issue state. We're a de facto no issue state (unless you're special.) Even Sweeney admits it. So should PA and NH.

[ryan_j 0]

They ask for proof of residency. This from the PA AG site:

 

 

 

 If you are a dual resident of Pennsylvania and Florida you need not apply for a CCP in Pennsylvania if you currently hold a CCP from Florida.  You must, however, carry with you proof of your Florida citizenry/residence along with your CCP identification when you are carrying a concealed firearm either on your person or in a vehicle.

 

Some proof of residency. Not sure what that is, absent of a DL. Probably a utility bill.

 

The biggest danger is if you DO have to use your gun, during the trial all the facts will come out during discovery. If it was discovered that you were not really a resident, then you are SOL.

 

Regarding insurance, yes people do it all the time. Why do you think there are so many Florida, Pennsylvania and South Carolina plates in Brooklyn NY? Brooklyn NY is crazy with insurance rates. You can only imagine why. Some of the most aggressive drivers are in Brooklyn, and medical costs in NYC are sky high. So a lot of Brooklynites get plates and insurance out of state. They get a driver license from out of state too. When I lived in Queens, I had to go pick up a package from UPS in Brooklyn. It was funny watching a woman with a SC driver license and SC address on it try to pick up a package shipped to her apt in Brooklyn... they flat out refused her, LMAO. 

[H.M. Murdock 0]

Isn't getting a driver's license and lower insurance rates by similar tactics also criminal? Sounded like it was easy and everyone did it.

 

It is easy if you have no regard for the law.

 

I personally can't stand seeing this, i.e. all these Maryland plates living in NJ.  If you could reverse look-up some of these Maryland addresses you'd probably find 50 drivers licenses registered to each one.  But it's not just the illegals.  I see it all the time with old white people with Florida plates who definitely don't live down there more than 50% of the year.

 

The effects of this insurance and ID fraud are palpable to any NJ resident paying NJ car insurance rates.  They're getting a 90% break in their insurance rates on our backs.  Worst part is that its considered acceptable by the general NJ population.  No chance of reform here.

[Newtonian 453]

It is easy if you have no regard for the law.

 

I personally can't stand seeing this, i.e. all these Maryland plates living in NJ.  If you could reverse look-up some of these Maryland addresses you'd probably find 50 drivers licenses registered to each one.  But it's not just the illegals.  I see it all the time with old white people with Florida plates who definitely don't live down there more than 50% of the year.

 

The effects of this insurance and ID fraud are palpable to any NJ resident paying NJ car insurance rates.  They're getting a 90% break in their insurance rates on our backs.  Worst part is that its considered acceptable by the general NJ population.  No chance of reform here.

I did not realize the extent of the problem. 90% rate decrease?? So people are paying like $140/yr for car insurance down there?

[H.M. Murdock 0]

I did not realize the extent of the problem. 90% rate decrease?? So people are paying like $140/yr for car insurance down there?

 

90% as in a hasty way to say they're paying an order of magnitude less than us.

 

Consider that each residence likely carries just one policy for many drivers that aren't really related.  I also suspect Maryland has weaker requirements for proving residency and is a popular place for illegal aliens to obtain a drivers license (fraudulently).

 

I don't know Maryland insurance rates but I do know that my sister paid $250/year in central NY.  I would imagine Maryland is similar (though more urban than CNY).  I think NJ is alone in its massive PIP limit (and other factors which drive up insurance premiums)

 

P.S.  If you're paying $1,400/year I envy you

[Templar 0]

I can not say I am surprised  he would say something so ignorant. Why do people in NJ keep electing these jokes of Politian's? Why? I

[ryan_j 0]

In Sussex county I pay $2400/yr for two cars. One 10 years old and one brand new.

[DeerSlayer 241]

In Sussex county I pay $2400/yr for two cars. One 10 years old and one brand new.

I pay $2100 in Sussex county for two vehicles, one new pick up with full coverage. And one 20 year old jeep with fire and theft. So thats inline.

[DeerSlayer 241]

I have family that just moved to central Florida from Warren county, they pay more for insurance there than here. Also they had to pay $400 to transfer their title and registration when they arrived. So i don't see the Florida advantage.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

I have family that just moved to central Florida from Warren county, they pay more for insurance there than here. Also they had to pay $400 to transfer their title and registration when they arrived. So i don't see the Florida advantage.

 

Those types of fees are all more expensive in FL. I'm an LLC in NJ and a foreign LLC in Florida. The annual report fees I have to file are just like you're describing - they are 3 times the amount in FL as compared to NJ. Then again, remember that FL has no income tax, but NJ does. This, since most people are there to retire, not work. So all those kinds of Govt. fees will be higher.  Fuel is also higher, and some groceries are the same or higher. Health Insurance is lower.  I'm into this as I expect to do the same thing at some point (i.e. move from Warren County to FL).

[DeerSlayer 241]

Those types of fees are all more expensive in FL. I'm an LLC in NJ and a foreign LLC in Florida. The annual report fees I have to file are just like you're describing - they are 3 times the amount in FL as compared to NJ. Then again, remember that FL has no income tax, but NJ does. This, since most people are there to retire, not work. So all those kinds of Govt. fees will be higher. Fuel is also higher, and some groceries are the same or higher. Health Insurance is lower. I'm into this as I expect to do the same thing at some point (i.e. move from Warren County to FL).

From what my relatives told me, the reason their insurance costs were higher was due to the fact that the part of FL they reside is considered a tourist area. Its an hour drive to Disney world north, almost two hours to the Gulf coast, and an hour and a half to the Atlantic coast. how thats a tourist area is beyond me lol.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

From what my relatives told me, the reason their insurance costs were higher was due to the fact that the part of FL they reside is considered a tourist area. Its an hour drive to Disney world north, almost two hours to the Gulf coast, and an hour and a half to the Atlantic coast. how thats a tourist area is beyond me lol.

 

That makes sense, actually. I'm quite a bit away from that, although close to Gainesville, a Univ.  City (U of Fl). 

[Oakridgefirearms 224]

They ask for proof of residency. This from the PA AG site:

 

 

 

 

Some proof of residency. Not sure what that is, absent of a DL. Probably a utility bill.

 

The biggest danger is if you DO have to use your gun, during the trial all the facts will come out during discovery. If it was discovered that you were not really a resident, then you are SOL.

 

Regarding insurance, yes people do it all the time. Why do you think there are so many Florida, Pennsylvania and South Carolina plates in Brooklyn NY? Brooklyn NY is crazy with insurance rates. You can only imagine why. Some of the most aggressive drivers are in Brooklyn, and medical costs in NYC are sky high. So a lot of Brooklynites get plates and insurance out of state. They get a driver license from out of state too. When I lived in Queens, I had to go pick up a package from UPS in Brooklyn. It was funny watching a woman with a SC driver license and SC address on it try to pick up a package shipped to her apt in Brooklyn... they flat out refused her, LMAO. 

 

 

NJ insurance fraud investigators have been known to troll the streets of Brooklyn and Queens at 4 in the morning looking for NJ plates parked at houses there. A fair amount of NY'ers have or use someone's shore house to register their vehicles.

 

On a related note, When NJ legalized Sunday bow hunting, I started hunting on Sundays and would come home using rt 80 after dark and would end up in the traffic from everyone retuning from the Poconos. At first, I was amazed to see how many PA drivers there were heading east at that hour on a Sunday evening, then I realized what was going on.

[Newtonian 453]

Call me naive to the glorious workings of our legal system, but I think the OP's idea was splendid. Our senate president said it himself: NJ has no concealed carry. Why can this not be used to benefit? What is the difference between Illinois, whose prohibition was de jure, and ours, which is de facto but 100% just as real?

[ryan_j 0]

I pay $2100 in Sussex county for two vehicles, one new pick up with full coverage. And one 20 year old jeep with fire and theft. So thats inline.

 

The 10yr old one I still have comprehensive on, because it's my daily driver and I want to be covered in case of a deer hit. The new one has full comprehensive, 100/300 and extra insurance for a satellite TV antenna. 

[ryan_j 0]

Call me naive to the glorious workings of our legal system, but I think the OP's idea was splendid. Our senate president said it himself: NJ has no concealed carry. Why can this not be used to benefit? What is the difference between Illinois, whose prohibition was de jure, and ours, which is de facto but 100% just as real?

 

The difference is that NJ is recognized by the ATF as having a CCW law. The PA statute requiring a home state permit mentions this. 

[mipafox 438]

As has been stated previously, this is most likely simply to prevent people in Philly who can't get an LTCF from getting an out of state carry permit.

No, it's not.

 

No PA resident can carry on any out of state permit. Matter of fact, you have more rights than we do - an out of state permit does not even allow vehicle carry for a PA resident.

 

Further, she dropped Utah. No PA resident could get a Utah permit without a PA LTCF - it was part of our agreement.

[njpilot 671]

No, it's not.

No PA resident can carry on any out of state permit. Matter of fact, you have more rights than we do - an out of state permit does not even allow vehicle carry for a PA resident.

Further, she dropped Utah. No PA resident could get a Utah permit without a PA LTCF - it was part of our agreement.

Thank you. Didn't know that.

 

I thought it was previously posted that the reason was the lack of ability to get a permit in Philly.

 

I stand corrected.

[mipafox 438]

Thank you. Didn't know that.

 

I thought it was previously posted that the reason was the lack of ability to get a permit in Philly.

 

I stand corrected.

It seemed that way at first. She mentioned "closing the Florida loophole" during her campaign. Back then it is true that people in Philly carried on Florida and Bloomberg did not like it.

 

But a while ago the McKown case established (even though our law does not say this) that PA residents can't use anything but a PA permit for anything. That is the law in PA now, legislated from the bench. She is aware of this, and everything she did after it would seem to have nothing to do with that.

 

Further, like I said, even if that was not good enough for her, no PA resident could have a Utah License without a PA license. So it seems pretty clear that's not her motivation at this point.

[njpilot 671]

Yep.

 

Couldn't the legislature pass a law allowing PA residents to carry on an out of state permit since they know Philly is practically no issue?

[mipafox 438]

 

They ask for proof of residency. This from the PA AG site:

 

Some proof of residency. Not sure what that is, absent of a DL. Probably a utility bill.

 

 

 

No, they don't. Like pretty much every AG or SP webpage, it's simply full of shit. There is no law requiring people carrying on licenses with reciprocity to carry proof of residency or ID.

 

And PA does not issue a "CCP." She's an idiot.

[mipafox 438]

Yep.

 

Couldn't the legislature pass a law allowing PA residents to carry on an out of state permit since they know Philly is practically no issue?

The law already allowed that. PA could pass a law specifically allowing PA residents to wear boots, but that type of thing is usually not necessary. What we really need to do is go permitless.

 

Philly is NOT practically no issue. I've just started noticing that impression here. Philly is absolutely shall issue. They simply add paperwork and questionnaires not permitted by the law and deny people for violations (such as unpaid parking tickets) not provided for in the law. There are also some weird cases where they decide you have a bad reputation or something. But make no mistake - if you moved to Philly and applied, and followed their requirements, you would be approved.

 

If they do decide not to approve you or accept your application for unlawful reasons, if you take it to court to appeal you will get your permit. It's a fairly simple process but you would be out over a grand with lawyer fees.

[njpilot 671]

The law already allowed that. PA could pass a law specifically allowing PA residents to wear boots, but that type of thing is usually not necessary. What we really need to do is go permitless. Philly is NOT practically no issue. I've just started noticing that impression here. Philly is absolutely shall issue. They simply add paperwork and questionnaires not permitted by the law and deny people for violations (such as unpaid parking tickets) not provided for in the law. There are also some weird cases where they decide you have a bad reputation or something. But make no mistake - if you moved to Philly and applied, and followed their requirements, you would be approved.

If they do decide not to approve you or accept your application for unlawful reasons, if you take it to court to appeal you will get your permit. It's a fairly simple process but you would be out over a grand with lawyer fees.

Ok. I've been going on some bad info that people, not in the know, have posted here in the past.

[wooly bugger 1]

The difference is that NJ is recognized by the ATF as having a CCW law. The PA statute requiring a home state permit mentions this. 

Well, it sounds like the ATF hasn't heard the president of our senate pronounce them wrong. I wonder if there's a way to appeal our status with ATF. Maybe wouldn't do any good if it's packed with Obama appointees, but I don't know the political situation there.

[mipafox 438]

Ok. I've been going on some bad info that people, not in the know, have posted here in the past.

 

They certainly harass people and deny some without good reason.

 

But like I said, if you moved there and went in for the interview and played their dumb game, you would get your carry permit within a couple months. And if you didn't, you could spend the money to appeal and get it very quickly. You have the money for that, but some people don't. And, not surprisingly, it is the poor or the young who occasionally run into problems.

 

If there is No Issue on one end of the spectrum, and Shall Issue on the other, and May Issue hovering somewhere south of the bell on the bell curve, then Philly is Shall Issue. They are a huge problem, and they do jam people up, but if you apply you should absolutely expect approval.

[ryan_j 0]

Does/did Philly ever deny people for parking tickets or minor moving violations?

[Newtonian 453]

The difference is that NJ is recognized by the ATF as having a CCW law. The PA statute requiring a home state permit mentions this. 

But we don't have such a law except on paper. The Supremes don't find that relevant or reason to hear Drake. Has that been the argument through the lower courts? In our dealings with PA and NJ?

[ryan_j 0]

But we don't have such a law except on paper. The Supremes don't find that relevant or reason to hear Drake. Has that been the argument through the lower courts? In our dealings with PA and NJ?

We do have such a law. We issue permits. We issue them to almost no one but we issue them.