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CJRPC Members Only Steel Match Terminated

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Yes. The bod are quite a bunch. It's like money entropy in those meetings. You would be boggled to see how much time was spent trying to prove dirt was too expensive to use for berms.

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It’s even worse than you think. I picked up a gun from George Saturday afternoon. I asked about his pistol carbine because another member told me he had a really nice one. I was interested in buying one. He recommended I wait if I was buying it to shoot at CJRPC. I asked why and almost an hour later, after I got finished picking my jaw up from the floor I was shocked. Apparently the rule change was approved by the board over three months ago for pistol carbine. The president is dragging his feet getting the rules published. According to the Email I saw he is “editing them”. Anyway the board was also challenged on how they handled the advertising sign for the Pinelands store for over two years. As it turns out it was done as a favor. A favor? How many business owners out there belong to the club would love to have that kind of favor. Anyway it’s their position the sign was forced to be taken down for a “disciplinary” action. The board is real good at keeping secrets, and keeping their mouth shut for that matter so everyone knows that the Pinelands was involved in the disappearance of the “donated” bows to CJRPC. All of these questions were presented to the board in a letter from George. He was invited to the board meeting last week and no surprise to him, he was attacked. Not by all the board members. Some of them just kept quiet and didn’t say a word. This whole thing stinks. I also know from seeing his Email that he notified the board last Thursday after the board meeting that he was looking into the possibility of filing a request in accordance with NJ Title 15 to have the board make all the records available for review. Apparently every member has the right. That set them off big time and since then they are plotting everything they can to get rid of him. Did you ever hear the saying where there is smoke there is fire? They cannot be allowed to treat the members this way.

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I love the way rumors get started. You people should get the facts before you write something down. That BOD at CJ has done more in the past few years then any previous board did in 20 years. I think members should attend a BOD meeting from start to finish then form their own opinion.

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I love the way rumors get started. You people should get the facts before you write something down. That BOD at CJ has done more in the past few years then any previous board did in 20 years. I think members should attend a BOD meeting from start to finish then form their own opinion.

We'll by all means enlighten us. I have seen some actual documents. But please show us the way to the bucket of kool aid. Your BOD of directors has no business running a multi million dollar organization. They are in way over their heads.

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I am new to NJGF but over the past two days I have been told to get an account and see what is going on.  I have been a CJ member for about 10 years.  I usually shoot there twice a week as well as shooting some of the weekend matches.I don't know how often some of you are there but everytime I shoot I see some of the board members there.  Not misusing funds but building, cleaning and maintaining the club for the members.  Today I was there and Art Quintalino was even cutting the grass.  Joe (not sure of his last name) was out cleaning with a work party.  I always see Art Q, Walt Bachmann, Mike Amico and John Scott donating much time to help make things better for us.  These board members do not get paid for their service.  They care enough about the club to take care of it and actually save us money in the process.  I cant speak for the other board members since I don't see them at the club.  I don't know how anyone else feels but I for one am grateful for those directors that care enough to maintain our club at their own expense and hope the caliber of the others not mentioned approaches that of the few I do know.

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I am new to NJGF but over the past two days I have been told to get an account and see what is going on.  I have been a CJ member for about 10 years.  I usually shoot there twice a week as well as shooting some of the weekend matches.I don't know how often some of you are there but everytime I shoot I see some of the board members there.  Not misusing funds but building, cleaning and maintaining the club for the members.  Today I was there and Art Quintalino was even cutting the grass.  Joe (not sure of his last name) was out cleaning with a work party.  I always see Art Q, Walt Bachmann, Mike Amico and John Scott donating much time to help make things better for us.  These board members do not get paid for their service.  They care enough about the club to take care of it and actually save us money in the process.  I cant speak for the other board members since I don't see them at the club.  I don't know how anyone else feels but I for one am grateful for those directors that care enough to maintain our club at their own expense and hope the caliber of the others not mentioned approaches that of the few I do know.

What about the children?

Are they doing anything about the children?

Its all for the children you know.

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These board members do not get paid for their service.

how do you know that? Not an argument by any means, just wondering. I just can't get over those freaking backup generators and that double wide. No one argues that BD hasn't done anything. The question is how much BD has done for you, average member. It looks like every BD member tries to built their own little castle on premises. Do you need that trailer and those generators everywhere? do you need that freaking deck they have built in front of it? Did you even get a set of keys to use these facilities? No sure why one would even want to go to the range and sit in those trailers. Not sure about you but I would rather see more targets at those pits, restored berms at h.power range or some lights so one can use pits longer. One thing I can tell you, there is no one who is maintaining anything at their own expense there. There are folks who donate their time and energy, no question about it. Being it BD or the regular member. How about BD starts to support these folks and encourage their attempts instead of taking them down.

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how do you know that? Not an argument by any means, just wondering. I just can't get over those freaking backup generators and that double wide. No one argues that BD hasn't done anything. The question is how much BD has done for you, average member. It looks like every BD member tries to built their own little castle on premises. Do you need that trailer and those generators everywhere? do you need that freaking deck they have built in front of it? Did you even get a set of keys to use these facilities? No sure why one would even want to go to the range and sit in those trailers. Not sure about you but I would rather see more targets at those pits, restored berms at h.power range or some lights so one can use pits longer. One thing I can tell you, there is no one who is maintaining anything at their own expense there. There are folks who donate their time and energy, no question about it. Being it BD or the regular member. How about BD starts to support these folks and encourage their attempts instead of taking them down.

On a rare occasion I will be at the club on new member night.  Last year I believe we averaged about 50 members a month.  I can certainly see that the double wide had a purpose since there was absolutely no room in the clubhouse.  At first I questioned the need but just for the fact of the new members as well as the handicap access I believe it to be a good idea.  I go to most general membership meetings and can tell you without a doubt that the vote by the membership to put in the DW was an overwhelming yes.  I have not seen any large amounts of money spent without a vote of the membership.  As for the HP berm I believe the BOD is getting ready to do the lead reclamation this year or next with a complete rebuild of the HP and GP ranges.  I think we belong to possibly the best club on the east coast and we are complaining that it is not run correctly.  Seems to be very contradictive.  I also asked when we would be getting more steel targets but was told that the different disciplines (steel & IPSC) did not want them since they interfere with their matches.  Not sure if this is true but it is what I was told.  I did not mean to infer that anyone was putting out any money of their own when I said their expense I simply meant time away from their families for the clubs benefit.

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I love the way rumors get started. You people should get the facts before you write something down. That BOD at CJ has done more in the past few years then any previous board did in 20 years. I think members should attend a BOD meeting from start to finish then form their own opinion.

I have, repeatedly. You know how close they have come to bankrupting the club? You know how many times? Any idea why the indoor range is no more usable than before dumping hundreds of thousands of dollars into it? They play at being experts when they aren't and spend the members' money doing it wrong. Hell, I've only been a member for like seven years or something, and I've seen the berms dressed properly once in that time. We bought a stupidly expensive piece of equipment to do it though. It's not even clear their conversion of the club to a not for profit was even legal within the rules of the clubs incorporation.

 

 

 

 

 

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On a rare occasion I will be at the club on new member night. Last year I believe we averaged about 50 members a month. I can certainly see that the double wide had a purpose since there was absolutely no room in the clubhouse. At first I questioned the need but just for the fact of the new members as well as the handicap access I believe it to be a good idea. I go to most general membership meetings and can tell you without a doubt that the vote by the membership to put in the DW was an overwhelming yes. I have not seen any large amounts of money spent without a vote of the membership. As for the HP berm I believe the BOD is getting ready to do the lead reclamation this year or next with a complete rebuild of the HP and GP ranges. I think we belong to possibly the best club on the east coast and we are complaining that it is not run correctly. Seems to be very contradictive. I also asked when we would be getting more steel targets but was told that the different disciplines (steel & IPSC) did not want them since they interfere with their matches. Not sure if this is true but it is what I was told. I did not mean to infer that anyone was putting out any money of their own when I said their expense I simply meant time away from their families for the clubs benefit.

Yes the question with their plans is how close to financially screwed are we with the plan. Not everything they do needs doing, and certainly their timing could use work. They have had on the agenda for years to build up a fund in case of a lawsuit. Hit a meeting and ask how that is going.

 

And yes the steel in the pits interferes with using it for anything other than plinking at steel.

 

There are definitely some good guys that persist in trying to keep the BOD from going off the rails, but as a whole, the political shenanigans, and the egos, get way out of hand.

 

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. I also asked when we would be getting more steel targets but was told that the different disciplines (steel & IPSC) did not want them since they interfere with their matches. Not sure if this is true but it is what I was

That is true, as the USPSA chairman (it isn't IPSC and you'd thing after a decade or so the board would know that, but whatever) I have asked to have 4 pits left without those racks. I like plate racks as much the next guy, but they are impossible to move and would make the pits dangerous to use for us. We can workaround a couple of them but not if they are in every pit.

 

Seeing how the board spends vast sums of money on the shotgun fields they love so much, and that on the average year the pistol disciplines return far more money then we ask for, this didn't seem to us like a very large request, seeing how we were asking them to NOT spend money so we could continue to shoot and give money to the club.

 

It should be noted that the single reason those pits ever existed is that the pistol disciplines asked for them almost two decades ago and that the pistol matches pushed to have the old falling apart pits rebuilt. I'm not saying we take credit for what it there now, but for our efforts over the years it is very possible all you would see would be the indoor range and the pistol range next to it, as the board in general is more shotgun oriented.

 

No one is denying the the board does stuff. Yes they work hard, and clean stuff and build stuff. I'm not even sure I care on how they spend the money they spend, because at the end of the day it only does so much good in a bank account waiting for someone to sue the club or whatever.

 

However, and I've told this to the board recently in person, I think they treat a lot of league chairmen with disrespect. I'm not sure if they do it on purpose or accidental either, but it doesn't change the fact that there is an increasingly adversarial relationship between match directors and the board, and for the life of me I don't know why. It is not as if I go harassing them, or asking for money or causing safety issues, or what not. I know that during my matches there are always available pits for the membership so we don't hog the range. I make sure to spend time with any member that walks by to explain what we do and to invite them to join us. We clean up after ourselves, we don't even put our targets in the trash cans, we take everything to the dumpsters to leave the range clean.

 

Yet for some reason we find ourselves the target of the board displeasure. I wish I knew why.

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All of above posts: Interesting insight to the politics, who would have thought...I think I see a reality-TV show comming with all this stuff going on ;-).

 

I have only been a member for about a year and 8 months, but put an enourmous amount of value on my memebership. There is no other place like it in my neck of the woods. ----I am in the camp though that they should have much more activities for "members-only" vs "public"....This is more important now with membership being up, and the "crowds" it brings.  ---Or spend more $$$ building more 25 yard pits...I am lucky to have a good # of vacation days and usually shoot during the week. If I had to stick to weekends, with all the public matches, I might not be so high on my memebership.

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Don't we already have a CJRPC-members-only area on NJGunForums.com?

 

Perhaps this discussion should be taken there....I'm not a CJRPC member, but I know I wouldn't want the internal workings of my club drug thru the mud for all to see...

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Don't we already have a CJRPC-members-only area on NJGunForums.com?

 

Perhaps this discussion should be taken there....I'm not a CJRPC member, but I know I wouldn't want the internal workings of my club drug thru the mud for all to see...

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Agree with above. Not a member but I think this should be handled with conversation in a board room between the board and match directors... With dicks back in pants

So you're not a member, but you felt the need to post. Here's a thought. If it doesn't concern you, don't click on it, don't read it, and most certainly don't post in the thread. Oh maybe you just felt the need to add your 2 cents... Wonderful

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So you're not a member, but you felt the need to post. Here's a thought. If it doesn't concern you, don't click on it, don't read it, and most certainly don't post in the thread. Oh maybe you just felt the need to add your 2 cents... Wonderful

your right , none of my business , apologies 

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So you're not a member, but you felt the need to post. Here's ain a thought. If it doesn't concern you, don't click on it, don't read it, and most certainly don't post in the thread. Oh maybe you just felt the need to add your 2 cents... Wonderful

how about since its in a public part of the forum whoever wants to can comment on it. Dont want your dirty laundry aired go in a private subforum. Until then Its public. Maybe potential members eill see this and rethink joining. Tell people what they should and shouldn't click on. Who are you to tell them that?

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I have been on the board of directors at CJRPC many years ago.

 

Are there egos? YES! Do some people have pet projects? YES! Are some in way over their heads being on the board? YES!

 

But any member can be elected to be on the BOD. Sometimes they run unopposed!!!

 

If you don’t like what the club is doing, CHANGE IT! Volunteer to run a match! Run to be on the BOD or a club officer! 

 

It easy to armchair quarterback. 

 

That's my 2 cents! ;-)

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If you don’t like what the club is doing, CHANGE IT! Volunteer to run a match! Run to be on the BOD or a club officer!

 

That's pretty much how I view it.  We get the BOD we deserve.  I really can't and won't complain because I've personally done nothing to change it.  Sure, I help during matches, but other than my initial member meeting I've not been back.

 

I must say that if the BOD did in fact try to "trick" or otherwise entrap a member as George alleges, that would really suck.  

 

I don't understand why the BOD has such an issue with pistol grade rifles.  

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how about since its in a public part of the forum whoever wants to can comment on it. Dont want your dirty laundry aired go in a private subforum. Until then Its public. Maybe potential members eill see this and rethink joining. Tell people what they should and shouldn't click on. Who are you to tell them that?

I don't care about any of that. The point is he's just blabbering about something that has nothing to do with him. I could see if he's trying to offer some assistance or something positive to the conversation then by all means feel free. What's the point of a drive by 2 cents comment? There is none.

 

Just because the internet gives everyone a voice doesn't mean they should use it.

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I don't understand why the BOD has such an issue with pistol grade rifles.  

 

I don't understand it, but I also don't shoot pistol grade rifles either. 

 

I'm sure if you got enough people together, go to the General Member meeting, bring it up, and have the membership vote on changing the rule, in a future meeting that is published in the newsletter.

 

Or email the BOD and ask what is the process to have the membership vote on a rule change?

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So you're not a member, but you felt the need to post. Here's a thought. If it doesn't concern you, don't click on it, don't read it, and most certainly don't post in the thread. 

 

It doesn't concern me at all, and I'm not a member.  But, all of a sudden I feel like commenting!

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As I understand Tom the membership voted to have the rules amended, or actually, to have them amended to include this steel match.  The president hasn't gotten around to do it.

 

As it stands a person can shoot pistol grade rifles in the pits during sanctioned matches but those are limited to cowboy action and the like, or while practicing for those events provided they have a special use badge.

 

I have a special use badge.  IF I were to have a pistol grade rifle I could practice on my own in the pits, but the way the rules are currently worded, I can only practice for cowboy action (or similar).

 

So, it seems that one would need a cowboy hat and chaps and be shooting a Rossi lever gun and tombstone silhouette to be kosher.

 

Put on a pair of cargo pants and a camo shirt while banging away on a steel plate with a CX4 and you risk losing your membership.

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As I understand Tom the membership voted to have the rules amended, or actually, to have them amended to include this steel match.  The president hasn't gotten around to do it.

 

As it stands a person can shoot pistol grade rifles in the pits during sanctioned matches but those are limited to cowboy action and the like, or while practicing for those events provided they have a special use badge.

 

Regarding the President not getting around to the edits. I try not to judge too hard, I do some volunteering at CJRPC and sometimes it takes me a month to get around to something because I have a day job. Everyone is a volunteer.

 

The rule on pistol grade rifles has been on the books since I have been with the club, almost 20 years. I don't think the people who wrote it are even around to explain why. Over the years we have had lawyers, accountant and insurance people as members of the board. Every board meeting I was on, inevitably we discussed our liability and insurance ramifications of what we were proposing. I'm sure the pistol grade rifles in the pit rule was a response to that. But since the pits have been rebuilt, perhaps it should be revisited.

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Raz, get your head out of the sand. When was the club ever near bankruptcy??? As for the legal fund I believe there is over 400K in it. As far as the club being not for profit, I believe that was done prior to this board. I think that since you are such a expert in all these issues that the next election you should run for the board.

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